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Please, see your other thread for my response. I would strongly suggest seeking legal advice, ASAP.
Domino, I didn't read your entire post, but I "get it" about this family. Because I didn't read the entire post, I'm unclear as to whether or not this "family" is cohabitating in this run-down house that you were pressured into buying, or if there are children as a result of your marriage.
I can't (and, won't) tell you what to do - you've engaged in counseling to save your marriage, but this marriage is doomed, regardless of how much counseling you've engaged in with your husband. He is allowing this abuse, and you clearly have a choice before you: stay and manage this misery until such time as your husband (and/or his family) calls it quits, or get the hell out and recover from these experiences before you get involved in an extramarital affair or choose another narcissist. That's it.
If there are children as a result of this marriage, you have my most heartfelt pity because those children will (without fail) be raised to become perfect narcissists, themselves, or perfect victims.
From my personal experiences, my own past issues (from early childhood, on) are directly related to the sociopaths that I ended up marrying during the past 30 years. The first one was abusive on every level, and the second one was a seemingly benign predator that married me for my money and maintained a deviant, violent sexua| "double-life" that was exposed over a year ago. The financial frauds that the second exspath included coercion, forgeries, and raiding of my private investments. Because I did not understand myself, first, I did not understand the set up and long-con of this second exspath which has resulted in life being utterly destroyed. Financially, spiritually, sexually, emotionally, and physically, I was left completely dismantled.
Having typed that, this whole-self devastation has resulted in my determination to learn from these experiences and to educate others about what sociopathy is, who a sociopath might be, and how to protect one's Self (Self = soul) from experiencing the same devastation that I have. This is my opportunity to learn about boundaries and construct them. This is also my opportunity to recognize that I do not (do not) have to tolerate anyone's "bad behaviors" because I crave approval and acceptance. I am learning to validate myself so that I can choose whether or not to "trust" another human being. I do not "feel" obligated to tolerate any type of behavior that I find inappropriate, distasteful, dishonest, or harmful to me or others. Although I'm recovering and I'll be okay, in due time, I would not wish my experiences upon another human being, even the predatory exspath that destroyed my life.
The family dynamics of your husband echoes that of the second predatory exspath, and these dynamics will never, ever, EVER change. Certainly, there is an "environmental" influence, but there are also questions about the role that genetics plays in sociopathic tendencies. Some of the behaviors and actions that you're describing are hard-core sociopathic tendencies, and there is no "safe" or "successful" method of managing these tendencies. Sociopathy cannot be medicated, surgically removed, counseled away, or spiritually zapped. It is a lifelong and terminal disorder that results in damages, across the boards.
Visit the following website to learn more about sociopathy and recovery: www.lovefraud.com
I wish you the very best.
EDIT ADD: Domino, I went back and read over your post and it seems that you did not produce children within this marriage. A very wise decision. But, what I also am reading is that you believe that the marriage is "strong" and that you will "make it work." I would urge you to visit the website that I posted, above, and learn more about your situation. The marriage isn't "strong," by any stretch of the imagination, and the only thing that seems to be "working" in overdrive is the blatant abuse that you're enduring and tolerating to please the husband and his family.
There are very few things in this lifetime that are a certainty. But, what is vital for you to accept is that, the more years that go by, the more damages you will suffer regardless of whom is perpetrating the damages. The family dynamics that you're describing are almost carbon-copied of the ones that I experienced with the second exspath, and these people (and, their son) are never, ever going to change.
Again, my most sincere best wishes to you.
I've read several different articles that stated that the two 'may' be related, some scientific, firmly beleiving thyroid disorders, such as hypothyroidism, can be a direct or indirect cause.
Makes sense as thyroid hormones influence many bodily functions, especially energy levels.
I was wondering if anyone else came across the possible relation between the two, or if anyone who has (or knows someone who has) hypothyroidism or some other thyroid disorder/disease that also has personality/social dysfunctions or disorders?
That's a complex issue of culture and upbringing, including the unique nature of personalities. There's a relationship between all types of disorders and thyroid, it influences many functions.
The reason I ask this, is that I personally know two persons (both of which who are females close to me) who exhibit symptoms of both a thyroid disorder AND a personality disorder. One has in fact been diagnosed with hyperthyroidism, the other exhibits many (most in fact) of the symptoms of hypothyroidism.
Females and personality disorders are hardwired into their brains, they can't help it. Sorry ladies.
They both also exhibit many traits of a person with, specifically, HPD (histrionic) and possibly NPD or BPD or a crossover between 2 or 3. But I of course have only done research on all of this, and like I said the only real diagnoses that has been made is with the one hyperthyroid..
There are many females with all those disorders, it's part of their natural state. Are we used to this type of behavior and consider it normal or a disorder? I've noticed many with underlying disorders of various degree, some hide it well.
Which is why I'm asking if anyone has experienced this, or heard of any relation between thyroids and PDs, or even any glandular disorder and PDs. And for that matter, has anyone been treated for a thyroid disorder/disease and noticed personality changes, for the better, or even vice versa, gotten thyroid sick and noticed personality changes for the worse?
From what I've seen, nutrition plays a key role. One can exercise and get therapy all day, but nutrition my be utilize and available to the body.
The PD symptoms appear to be from early childhood, and the thyroid symptoms likewise also appears to have existed most of their lives.
I'm also persoanlly very curious on the subject, because I feel that glandular health may have links to many mental health issues and symptoms.
I have posted this in 4 relative forums. Any info or feedback on this subject would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Personality disorders are part of everyone, nobody is really in "order" so to speak. It's when the disorders get out of hand and control the person, instead of the person being controlled by the disorder.
Nope, nope, nope. "Personality Disorder" suggests that the choices of behaviors of individuals that "fit the profile" of certain conditions can somehow be treated, managed, and/or "cured." In some "disorders," this may be true to a certain extent, but it is very limited.
When discussing NPD or sociopathy/psychopathy, there is no "organic" cause for the choices of these individuals. Thyroid issues have absolutely NO impact upon whether or not an individual has a conscience or sense of remorse. Thyroid issues to not "cause" an individual to develop a predatory nature.
When empathetic individuals are entangled in predatory relationships, they attempt to find a "reason" that the predators make the choices that they do - surely, there has to be something that can be treatable ? The answer is a hard, cold, and painful, "No. Predatory individuals are predatory because they simply are." No medication, herbal remedy, supplement, surgery, psychological intervention, or spiritual epiphany is going to "cure" or treat or manage the choices of specific individuals. Ever. They are what they are because they are what they are.
Best wishes
i know what you mean....how are you doing now? i just want to know someone can get out of one of these....wanted to talk to someone....
I'm sorry that you've had these experiences. Blue Rose is spot-on. Document, document, document. And, contact your State Bar Association and ask for a referral to several "Divorce Specialists," not just divorce attorneys. If you live in a state that maintains "no fault" divorce, you may want to consider criminal charges if you have a means to support yourself.
A website that specifically addresses surviving sociopathic entanglements may offer you invaluable information and hope: www.lovefraud.com
Keep in mind that your husband may be an attorney, but he's not immortal or immune to consequences. Don't allow fear to be the driving force behind your decisions or actions.
Best wishes to you
With all due respect, this post might better be served on the "NPD: Survivors" forum. This board is for really for people who are NPD and may be looking for techniques to manage their NPD issues.
With regard to your title question, "What happens if you call a narcistic out on their crap?" The answer is quite simple: a malignant NPD will be placed on the defensive and be given the perfect excuse to launch a full-on smear campaign against whomever pointed out Truth. And, there is no level too low for them to stoop to in an effort to achieve their goal: ruin you, at all costs. Pointing out the NPD's manipulations, lies, deceptions, etc., doesn't do one iota of good for anyone involved, including the NON-NPD-slash-source-target. Yeah, we might feel better for having vented, as we should, but delivering our rants and vents to the NPD doesn't change things and only provides "evidence" for them to pass around to demonstrate how unstable we are.
Randomness, I've been reading your posts and it's my very humble opinion that you may find serious benefit by engaging in strong counseling with someone who can help you to sort out your rage, anger, disappointments, etc., and teach you how to walk away and go "No Contact" without any regrets. By going "No Contact," we are taking away any control that the NPD (and, possible sociopath) may wield against us, be it guilt, shame, defense, or offense. We can learn how to move through our lives without giving the NPD a thought, even if they are our own offspring or family members. I say this from personal experience.
To find a good, strong counseling therapist, call your local "mental health" referral service and ask for the names of counselors (plural) who are familiar with NPD survival, sociopathy, PSTD, and abuse. Then, engage with fearless hope in some powerful therapy. It will take time, patience, and courage, but I promise, Randomness, that you will recognize and embrace the fact that only you have the power to put the NPD issues to rest and to facilitate your own healing from your exeriences. I say this with utmost empathy because I have a son who was diagnosed a sociopath, and it has been a very, very bitter pill to swallow. I still have moments of insanity when I want to reach out and attempt to heal and teach my son, but I quickly remember that there is no cure, treatment, supplement, or miracle that will address his diagnosis. He is what he is, and nothing can change that.
You may also find some very valuable information and source of support at: www.lovefraud.com
Brightest blessings to you, and may you find you way onto your own healing path!
cary kembla
13 y
2,285
† C †
spudlydoo
14 y
4,025
Molly, dear heart, what a bunch of horsesh*t! I disagree with the article in that a narcissist (particularly, a malignant narcissist) doesn't have any choices or even a rudimentary understanding of the damage that they cause! Moreover, I disagree that most narcissists are male - on the contrary, I notice more NPD behaviors among women, especially young females.
"Jerk" .....yah..... just doesn't fill the bill!
LOVE YA!!! :D
Def KEEP THE YORKIE!!
Poor yorkie. Give husband some kleenex and keep cute adorable little Yorkie away from his nose. I would worry she would get something from HIM!!
j/k
Blue Rose is 100% dead-on. The well being of your child should come first, and foremost. Being with someone like this person only teaches your child that such behavior is not only acceptable, but appropriate.
The only way to excise NDP from your life is through "no contact." If you move in the same circles, then the circle of friends needs to be weeded out. Circling the wagons is a good analogy - but, only those people that have earned your trust need to be your friends, right now. Even then, this is going to have to be something that you do, on your own. You may even decide that hanging out with friends might need to be put aside for the best interests of your child - a very wise choice, in the long run.
Whatever you choose to do, you must do on your own. Nobody can do it for you and the control over your own life needs to be taken back into your own hands. Your child is watching you - every action and every REaction to Life's issues is training for your child as to what type of adult they will be. By remaining in a bad situation, they are learning that they must either become a victim, or an abuser, themselves. This may come across as harsh, but this choice is not only about you - it's about your child's best interests, as well. Both of my sons were raised in a NPD/sociopathic environment, and the long-term consequences of my choice to remain with a monster for that long have been dire. The eldest is a diagnosed sociopath, and the youngest is now the perfect victim. They are both adults, and the wake of damage that has been left is incalculable - from teachers, to taxpayers, to friends, to family.
Fairy Tales have taught women that they only need Prince Charming to be fulfilled. Well, it's rubbish. What we need is to develop into strong, wise, and self-assured human beings, and then we can choose a partner that's worthwhile! Women, in particular, need to realize that they do not require a man to be complete. You don't need this man. Your child doesn't deserve to experience this type of environment. But, only you can take the steps to end this mess and develop yourself into a strong, wise human being. www.lovefraud.com
Sincere best wishes to you.
Um..........I expect that this is going to come accross as harsh. So be it. Are you NUTS??? NEVER, EVER marry someone for the "sake of the child" without 100% DNA proof that the child is, indeed, yours, and then consider other options if this potential partner displays the types of behaviors that you're describing! This is the oldest ploy in the books, and one that you do NOT have to react to. DNA testing would seem the most prudent thing to do. That she is refusing this to you should be a screaming, flapping, waving RED FLAG for you to frigging RUN like your ass was on fire!
Counseling? I doubt it. It just sounds as if she may have learned new manipulation techniques - up until the time that proof is required, yes?
If the child is, indeed, your offspring, marriage will NOT be the best option to someone like this. The best option would be to seek full physical custody, child support from her, and raise the child in the best way that you can. Marriage is a legal, binding contract just the same as a business contract - easy to enter and very, very difficult to dissolve. Picture yourself with this woman 5 years from now. Do you honestly believe that it would be a wise decision to enter into a legal, binding contract with this woman? It costs tens of thousands of dollars to divorce, and incalculable emotional damage for all parties involved, especially a child.
Give this some very serious consideration, for your own sake.
Best wishes.
Personally, I feel that you have made a very, very wise decision.
I echo Blue Rose's suggestion to document, document, DOCUMENT. Yeah, the escalation in her behavior may be due to her hormonal imbalance during pregnancy, but she was like this BEFORE. If she's meeting up with other men while she's this far gone in her pregnancy and you're still living with her, this is never, ever, EVER going to improve for you, or for your precious baby. This gal is a problem to anyone that she comes into contact with - male, female, or infant. By documenting everything from threats to hooking up with men at this stage of her pregnancy, it will NOT sit well with Family Court. She doesn't sound fit to be a parent, a partner, OR a pet-owner!
If it were me, I'd get the legal wheels in motion yesterday, whether or not anybody else approved. It's not THEIR burden to bear and not their place to stand in judgment. If I felt that I had to remain until the baby was born, I'd do that solely with the intent of taking my infant WITH me when I either left, or kicked her to the curb. I'd be documenting everything using exact quotes, dates, times, and facts, and avoid the temptation to add my personal views or emotions - strictly the facts, and nothing added.
Good luck to you, and post back.
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