Re: Marijuana's Effects On Consciousness

"So you have all the answers to the laws.
It is clear you do not like the laws and law enforcement."

Trying to misrepresent my position again, you do this alot. Just like you misrepresent cannabis users with your fallacious, "nefarious Characters" talking point.

Laws are good, as long as they are just, law enforcement is fine when it is just. In the case of the current drug laws and system, INJUSTICE is the word that comes to mind.

"Your saying that it does not matter at all if a person is drunk or stoned or intoxicated on any substance because it has nothing to do with what happens when that person has an accident of any kind."

Continuing with your lisrepresentation of what I have stated. I never said that, those are your words, and you are trying to paint me with your stereotype brush that you wield. It's about being responsible for ones actions, and not blaming a substance that people have often intentionally taken too much. It boils down to one statement.Be responsible for your actions.

"That is how your retort reads."

Thats how you decide to read it...be responsible for your actions. You made that decision.

"It is all about responsibility and nothing to do with the drug??"

What is "all"? Be specific. Being vague is not going to clarify anything.

"Your saying the accident would have happened anyhow even if the person was lucid and not under the influence of a drug."

Misrepresentation of what I stated.

"Your right in some aspects and wrong in one aspect...because we are talking about an accident or accidents that DID or do involve drugs or alcohol."

That is your specification, I was speaking of killing someone while driving, intoxicated or not. Don't misrepresent what I have stated.

"If your were not stoned then you can argue it is responsibility only.
If you ARE stoned or drunk then that changes the circumstances and the intoxication becomes a factor to be considered and or acknowledged."

It changes little in terms of responsibility, because either way, the individual is responsible for their decisions.

"If you are or were really tired then you should also not drive the vehicle and the responsible choice is to not drive..if you are trying to be 100 percent responsible."

Exactly my point. Personal responsibility.

"Nope...the law enforcement of the country does not listen nor agree to peoples reasoning that argues the drugs or alchol have nothing to do with the events that occured if and when you do get caught speeding or involved in an accident while intoxicated on any mind altering and physically altering substance..even if it is a prescription drug."

Law enforcement is also unjust, and basically a tool to fleece the public of their earnings and rights. Police are money making and control entities.

"MY Answer:If that is the case then stop taking the drug because it is irresponsible to take the drug and that is one of the main arguments about drug consumption."

What is one of the main arguments? Be specific. What is "that"? It is your narrow view that it is irresponsible to take the food/medicine that is cannabis. The truth is it is irresponsible to try and force a false paradigm on others.

"The accident is not so much really about fault rather it has a lot to do with factors and how drunk or stoned the vehicle operator was / is is a major factor....not the fault."

I'm going to use your tactic of misrepresentation on this one, so you can see how it feels, and realize how distorted your arguments are......From what I gather here, you are saying it's nobodies fault.

"People who do not take the drugs make the decision to be responsible by not taking the drug while the drug users are,in effect, making a decision that is irresponsible."

It would be irresponsible to not take care of ones self. But practically everybody takes drugs and consumes mentally and physically altering substances, so your argument is moot.

"Maybe you need to spend a week with the traffic enforcement officers and see the results of intoxicated drivers and witness the mess created by irresponsible, intoxicated drivers.'

I have been to traffic school, seen "Bloody Asphault" been in car accidents seen the mes cause by intoxicated drivers. But I can tell you the horrible traffic accidents by cannabis users while supposedly "intoxicated" rarely occur. It is much more likely that a person that is tired/sleepy will have a horrible accident than a person that takes cannabis.

""Drug responsibly" will say the future advertisements in an attempt to curb the amount of problems or accidents or irresponsible behaviour that occurs when people are stoned..especially those that are really, really stoned."

Why don't you produce some real statistics rather than speculate.

"Like you thought it would be really funny to try and stand on the hood of your friends car and drive down the road at 30 miles per hour. Until you fell off and and broke your arm and 2 ribs along with a concussion to your head."

Now what? Are you trying to accuse me of something? That I never did?

"I personally witnessed some fine, irresponsible behaviour demonstrated by people very stoned on marijauna and they were otherwise responsible and law abiding citizens...until they got stoned and made drug induced irresponsible decisions that can be argued whould not have been made when they were lucid."

Sure you could argue that, but you may be wrong in your argument. That can be argued regarding your presumptuous statement.

"I am certain they would not have made the same irresponsible decisions if they had been sober."

Proove it.

"But meantime the marijuana consumers state: Dont lump us all together and call us irresponsible when we are responsible law abiding citizens."

This is a ludicrous statement, and a continued presumption. You are trying to create a strawman here.

"You just shot yourself in the foot if you want to argue about responsibilities relative to the consumption of the NON ESSENTIAL, Recreational drugs that result in a altered mental and physical state.
You may be feeling good and having fun but your stoned condition can and sometimes is a liabilty to other people around you and or anyone you may come into contact with while you are stoned...especially if you are really, really stoned."

This is a ridiculous and baseless statement. Vague. Marijuana is ESSENTIAL to my well being, you have no idea of my health issues. And some people are appreciative that I still exist and even thrive as a result of the God given herb called cannabis.

"If you truly are a responsible person then you will not be consuming any substances at all that can and do "significantly" effect your mental and physical abilities which can and do effect other people around you."

I am responsible for taking cannabis, it helps me from being ill, and people find me to be alot more relaxed and whinny when I take cannabis, so once again your argument is baseless and false.

"That is not my opinion...that is a consensus!"

Oh, a consensus....thats a bunch of BS.

Record-High 50% of Americans Favor Legalizing Marijuana Use

http://www.gallup.com/poll/150149/Record-High-Americans-Favor-Legalizing-Mari...

"If you decided to tie your feet together, then your ability to function would be impaired and you could easily fall down and hurt yourself and when you are falling down you may very well cause harm to other people around you."

That is a stretch because what if nobody else is around. looks like you didn't take that into account on your little hypothetical. Get real.

"When you get drunk or really high you have self impaired yourself."

Again you hypocritically make a comparison, which you initially said should not be done. It is your opinion that cannabis always causes impairment. This to the detriment of your argument.

"It is known as "being mentally and physically impaired" and it can and does effect people around you if you are impaired because you made the irresponsible decision to get impaired in the first place.
Then make a further irresponsible decision to operate a motor vehicle while you are stoned or perform some other functions that require your attentions and focus 100 percent...especially when other people can / could and sometimes do suffer your impairment."

Your reaching here.

"That is one of the main moral and legal arguments about drug consumption."

That barely even made sense. Again, impairment is relative case by case.

"Plain and simple..it IS irresponsible to get stoned or drunk in the first place and then try to go about doing what has to be normally done while you are functioning in a altered mental and physical state."

It is IRRESPONSIBLE to distort the truth.

"If you fall down the stairs while you are drunk or stoned you can totally blame yourself, if you want, for making the decision to go down the stairs but most people will recognise the fact that you were very mentally and physically impaired by the drug or the alcohol and that was a significant factor as to why you fell down the stairs that particular time..when you were "self" impaired."

Still making ridiculous hypotheticals and hypocritical comparisons.

"Do people fall down the stairs when they are sober? Of course they do..all the time ...but the total amount of people who would or do fall down the stairs is more, if and when a drug or alcohol is involved and when they are "self" impaired."

There is no proof more people fall down the stairs when they take cannabis.

"You can then seperate the incidents as incidents called accidents and incidents influenced by self impairment.
The drinking and driving laws did not evolve because the big, bad law enforcement people saw an opportunity to make money from the public so they created some money making laws."

And yet they are used injustly none the less.

"And the nation wide organisation call MADD did not form because a bunch of women thought it would be a cool thing to form a organisation that seeks to lessen the impact on peoples lives because of drinking and driving related motor vehicle accidents."

And what does this have to do with cannabis in your argument?

"I hope you dont drink and drive and I hope you dont drug and drive also."

I have over the counter drug and driven in the past. I had a really bad headache that was effecting my driving, so I took a pain reliever and my driving improved dramatically.

"By what you are saying , if and when you do get in an accident with another persons motor vehicle and it is recognised and proven, for the record, the person that was operating the other vehicle that slammed into the side of your vehicle and crippled you for life, was very high on marijuana at the time...you in all your wisdom are not even going to consider the drug factor???"

From what I know, probably not, not very likely. That is a fact.

"You are going to argue on his behalf that it was / is ok that he was self impaired at the time he crashed into you."

Misreprsentaion, something you are good at.

"You are going to whole heartedly agree that any mention of the drug is to be stricken from the record as it had nothing to do with the accident."

More false misrepresentation.

"It is all about the responsibility and the drug is not a factor
The accident could have happened anyhow and you just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time when the self impaired and thoroughly stoned driver slammed into you.
OK.You believe that....butI will still come and visit you in the hospital and talk to you about fate and how the stoned driver is still out there continuing to drive around while self impaired and continually stoned."

Ridiculous hypothetical.

"If you just sit there and do nothing at all when you are stoned or drunk then more than likely nothing harmfull or negative will happen to you and or people around you."

That is a brilliant deduction.(sarc)

"It is a proven fact that when drunk or stoned, people try to carry on doing the normal everyday tasks, including driving. The increase in possible accidents and self inflicted harm and harm to others increases substantially."

There are studies that have proven that people in fact drive more carefully while taking cannabis, so this statement is flawed, you can try and use the fascist technique of clumping being drunk and stoned together, but they are not the same.

"I work in the heavy construction industry working with men and some women on projects as large as 3000 men and women.
Try working on a safety oriented construction sight and tell your co-workers you are a responsible drug consuming
co-worker and the drug has nothing to do with how well you perform along side of your lucid and sober co-workers while working in a dangerous and hazardous work place environment."

I assure you some of those people are on one drug or another. It is virtually guaranteed.

"They have a zero tolerance culture concerning the consumption of drugs or alcohol and any one found with drugs or alcohol in the construction site camp facilities is immediatly fired."

I guarantee you some of those people are on prescription drugs.

"But go ahead and try to get away with it and see how long you last arguing the drug has nothing to do with your safety performance or lack of it while your stoned or drunk on the jobsite."

Continuing your misrepresentation of what I stated, I hope you have enjoyed writing all this. This has to be the lamest argument I have encountered yet.

"Yes ..your right ..it is "first" all about responsibilities"

uh..huh..

"...and non essential, recreational drug consumption is irrisponsible."

Not if you do it responsibly. Think about it. It is IRRISPONSIBLE not to.

http://phoenixtears.ca/

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