From: PM befurther: I have seen the system first hand destroy people for their life for non-violent drug offence. It constantly happens and anybody that says otherwise lives in a fantasy land.


****I have seen first hand the drug destroy people’s lives for their non violent drug consumption and also for their violent drug offences. The world has witnessed the immense damage done by the consumption of drugs and how it has destroyed millions of people’s lives, directly and or indirectly. Far, far more so than any prison system has ever done.
It constantly happens every day and anybody that says otherwise lives in a fantasy land.*****


Get off the drugs and get a real life. One that is not drug induced and drug seduced and one that is not distorted and continually angry at the system or about the system.
Were you this way before you started consuming the drug or after consuming the drug?
There is a lot of loathing and anti establishment rhetoric in your submission.

The readership is concerned you may be somewhat of a Timothy McVeigh type character and we may see another federal building bombing.....the DEA office in particular.

We do not live in perfect world, far from it ...but NON ESSENTIAL, recreational drug consumption does not make it better related to many, many aspects of its consumption....but what you advocate and fight so hard for, by way of your anti establishment submissions, in effect supports the liberal use of self serving, personal drug consumption use of the NON ESSENTIAL, Recreational types of drugs.
In your world you think it is a better choice for society and the citizens to have easy access to the NON ESSENTIAL, recreational drugs ......on top of all the harmful drugs that are already available.
So, it more or less becomes a conflict of interest based on the consumption of the drug verses the non consumption of the drug if you take away the legal aspect and law enforcement aspects of its supply and consumption.

The world would like to see you answer just how exactly you and the rest of the druggies are going to address the many other problems associated with drug consumption...the type of drugs, that which you so adamantly advocate should be free to consume.

So far you are only talking about the problems associated with the laws and the law enforcement and then it ends there.
You want those laws changed to solve that aspect of the marijuana consumption so you can freely and legally consume your drug of choice.
After that there is nothing else to discuss? All other problems are not worthy of your concern as you got what you wanted and now you can get as stoned as you want legally knowing you wont get arrested or have to go to prison for breaking a law.
That is not unreasonable and I don’t want you to be arrested or go to prison…I want you to be part of the solution and tell us how the OTHER drug related consumption problems are going to be addressed by you and all the other druggies and habitual consumers of a drug that is yet to be accepted in society by the majority of people.

By way of your submissions it seems that you just want the drug to be legal and any problems associated with the consumption are to be bridges crossed when you get there and or let the chips fall where they may.

Or more importantly ...other people will have to deal with any negatives and problems caused by the supply and consumption as the drug consumer is too busy with his drug based agenda. Your time is spent on more important issues such as where to get the drug and scheduling your purchasing of the drug and how much you should buy and where and how to save some money on the drug while complaining “the cost of this stuff is breaking my bank account at $1,000 dollars to $1500.00 US per month”. When to smoke it and where to smoke it and how much should you smoke today and how much should you smoke on average. What to do for kicks after you are stoned? Should I go smoke some with my buddies or have them all come over here and smoke it at my house.
How should I plan my day revolving around the drug and how stoned do I want to be today?
Should I drive?
Hmmm, what to do now that I am really stoned and I have to pick up something half way across town so that means I will have to drive? Well I have decided I will do that any how because the chances of having an accident are highly unlikely and f*** the laws! The stupid laws and ignorant people don’t understand I am a better person on drugs and I am safer while driving on drugs anyhow!
Hmmm…..Should I let my good buddies drive after they came to my house and get completely wasted on the new bud I am buying and supplying…the best ever so far!
Ahhh.. I am certain they will be OK. What is the chance of them having an accident? Besides, people don’t know a person stoned on marijuana is safer than a person who is drunk so by that reasoning alone it is safe enough to get completely wasted and drive around anyhow.

Meantime you are bitterly complaining about the costs to society of law enforcement and the prison system relative to the drugs you want to consume along with the anti establishment rhetoric and the attitude that you have developed about the opposition to the consumption.
It is apparent in your submissions and your postings.

Your drug consumption is costing you tax money, either way. Legal or illegal you are paying for it on top of how much you spend on the drug itself.
I can only assume that you also complain about the price of the drug and expect the government to also solve that aspect of drug consumption.
You want it to be cheap and you want the government to make it cheap.
If it is expensive then we will have to listen to the druggies continually whine and complain about the price also...just like the tobacco addicts continually whine and complain about the prices...cough, cough hack, hack...light up another one and complain some more.
“Jesus this shit is expensive now and it pisses me off about the amount of tax they put on it.”
Hey, buddy , I have a friend who is selling contraband tobacco, without the taxes, at 30 % of the retail price……you want in on it……its easy…f*** the government taxes!
Wouldn’t that be illegal?
Hey…..screw the cops and screw the tobacco companies and screw the government taxes!


So, let us say that we agree to disagree on certain aspects of the drug issue.

What the world wants to know is just how we handle the problems associated with the consumption of NON ESSENTIAL, recreational drugs after it is legal.
Ok .I am not talking to you now because there are no problems that you are willing to recognize and they are a figment of people’s imagination so I am addressing the question to more reasonable people who do take into consideration the negative ramifications of drug consumption.
Those would mainly be the ones that actually have to deal with the problems and or the many millions of people that can testify to the problems they have personally had to deal with.

Put yourself in the position of the government personal and put yourself in the position of being a government person who has to formulate laws and regulations and rules concerning the consumption of the drug Marijuana and try to clean up any messes created by the drug consumption.

I would like to see you and all the others that fight so hard for the drug reforms be the ones that drop everything else in your lives and spend all your time being the ones that write the new laws and formulate the new regulations and try to take into consideration all the possible factors, both negative and positive relative to the supply and consumption of the mind altering substance called marijuana.

Point being: You will simply cast your angry vote and leave ALL the dirty work up to the others.
That would be the government personal ( Other People ) saddled with the immense task of enacting drug reform laws along with the law enforcement personal that you so adamantly loath and criticize all the time as seen in your anti establishment rhetoric and postings seen on this forum.

After it is legalized....What exactly will YOU do to solve the problems, seeing as you are so adamant to have others people solve the problems for you...the same people that you loath so much.

Will we see you working long, long hours into the night in support of the system that favors your drug consumption and helping to correct any of the problems?
If and when any further problems in society evolve from the consumption of the drug can we count on you to be there to help solve those problems?
What resources, time and money are you willing to contribute to your cause? Other than smoking more of the drug and complaining about the opposition to your drug while denying there are any problems with the drug.
Can we expect to see you open a drug rehabilitation clinic in your area to help "that percent" of people whose lives ARE dramatically affected by the consumption of the drug you praise so much as being the perfect consumer’s drug?
Can we expect to see you helping on a volunteer basis the misguided youth whose lives ARE negatively affected by the drug you choose to adamantly support.
Can we have your address and telephone number for volunteer reference and can we assume that you will openly embrace the down and out youth and other individuals affected by their "legal" drug consumption. Can we expect you to eagerly welcome them into your home while you help them get back on their feet and get off the drug that has negatively affected their lives when they need help to change their lives?
Can we count on you to be there to help your drug consuming brethren in need of help or can we assume you are just in it for your own self serving agenda and the real street level problems of drug consumption are to be shouldered by "Other People" ...people that you will never have to meet or deal with….the establishment people that are there to clean up other peoples messes.
Lucky for you, you do not have to deal with many of the real problems of drug consumption while you sit there behind your computer telling everyone the drug is “god’s glory” and the world should be enlightened by its consumption.

When and if there is drug related conflict in your neighborhood, concerning drug consumption, can we assume you will eagerly intervene and try to resolve the problems and come to the aid of anyone that is negatively affected by drug consumption?
Can we assume you will be an active member and part of the "Legal Drug Consumption Decorum Association" that helps relieve the police and government social services and the citizens of the costly social burdens related to drug consumption and save the tax payers money.
Will I see you in the newspapers as the spokes person telling us the government has no worries about legal marijuana consumption as the law abiding legal marijuana consumers have the ability to police the selling and consumption of the drug by themselves and do not need the services of law enforcement?
Any problems will be fully handled and rectified by the Drug Consumers Association by way of their own methods and law enforcement services are not required.
In this way, lowering the burden of the other tax payers who shoulder the expenses of drug related consumption problems.
Will we see you there tirelessly working harder than ever to correct the problems and any injustices suffered by society or individuals whose lives are adversely affected by the drug consumption?

I think not!
I surmise you will stay comfortable behind your computer and whine and complain all the more about how the government is conspiring to make life difficult for the drug consumers.

You will simply call the police to resolve the problems or rely on the government resources...the same police and same government that you loath so much as seen in your anti establishment comments and postings.

Lets hypothesis a very possible future scenario evolving.

If a legal hash house is proposed to open up, just across the street from your house, in your neighborhood, you will of course embrace it with open arms ...even if the establishment negatively effects your property value and over the years the type of community that evolves is lower income, unemployed party hardy types that want to locate themselves near easy access to their drugs and the local hash house establishment.
Lets us say it is successful and people want to open more hash houses in your neighborhood and all the more consumption of the drug is happening in your neighborhood along with any of the associated problems...such as the perfect place to buy or sell other illegal drugs and the alcohol that is near ALWAYS associated with the consumption of marijuana.
You of course would not mind if the new laws allow the hash house to be open 24 hours a day and you of course would simply accept those rulings and legal drug consumption laws, Should that be the case?
The drug consumption must go on, correct??? And peoples rights to smoke the drug in their designated hash house community location, in your neighborhood, is fine by you...correct?
If the other citizens in the neighborhood seriously oppose the new community by laws that allow such establishments to exists we can expect you to ignore their legitimate concerns and opinions concerning such legal drug consumption occurring in their neighborhood ( your neighborhood ) and any opposition to the establishment and drug consumption is considered ..What?? Ignorant, uneducated, futile, misguided or maybe "fascist" as you have stated recently in your opinion??

When the other half of the people finally panders to your demands are you then going to be satisfied with the new order and the new system, so to speak, that you and so many others so desperately want and so eagerly advocated?

If it is not exactly the way you and or the other drug consuming druggies want it and it still comes with laws and regulations and rules that do not suit your personal drug consuming agenda then we should expect to see you still whining and complaining the system is fascist and anti freedom and it is all aimed at vilifying the drug consumer?

Tell me? What rules and laws and regulations do you expect in your humble drug induced, drug seduced expert opinion.
More importantly: What should be the penalties for the violators and perpetrators who violate the rules and regulations and laws in your utopian drug induced and drug seduced world.
Or will there be any rules and regulations and laws at all in your drug consumption world.???

For example: If a known person is caught many, many times selling drugs to minors, under the age of legal consumption, can we assume in your world that he should not be penalized and certainly should not go to prison. Based on your reasoning the government is simply on a witch hunt and the perpetrator is simply selling the kids drugs that they can otherwise get anyhow. So no need to have the silly law and why enforce it.....it costs too much money.
In your drug seduced world how should the perpetrators be dealt with.

Reward them with a bag of pot if they promise to not do that again!

Another hypothesis but a more than possible scenario for many people in a future legal liberal drug consuming environment

How would you have and if that person selling the drugs is also connected to other criminal activities and supplying other drugs, as drug dealers all too often are, then what should your drug seduced world do about such nefarious characters.
To add to the problems lets us say that the children involved are your children and or your relative’s children.

Can we expect you to stand up to the perpetrators and confront them and seriously try to do something about the underage youth consuming drugs before they are legally allowed?
Why is it I naturally assume that you would shrink away from any confrontation with the perpetrators and be calling the police and the other government social services to come to your aid? The same establishment personal that you love to loath so much as seen in your submissions and comments.
What if the establishment was to tell you there are NO problem going on as marijuana is harmless? Remember...the druggies said so themselves so why would the government services be wasting their time enforcing marijuana related laws as the government is now long past trying to apply any laws to the consumption of marijuana.
Law enforcement does not work, as pointed out by the druggies and the so called drug consuming experts on the subject.
The druggies put a stop to that many years ago. Remember??

"Hey...You’re on your own now buddy..... tell your kids not to do the drug or go and make a citizens arrest on your own time" ..."you have our permission" ...." we are trying to save tax payers money here and the new legal drug consumption policies basically say: "Marijuana is a harmless substance and causes no problems and law enforcement personal can use own their own discretion concerning how to control its supply and or consumption.”
“Your case has been reviewed and it has been decided that too much valuable money, time and effort will be expended on your personal concerns so we have decided to reject your complaint.”
“If you are having a problem with the drugs and or the drug suppliers then you are now on your own to solve any problems yourself and that is the legal position of the police in this area.”
“It is just harmless marijuana and the man should be free to sell it and the kids should be free to consume it”
“If you do not like what he is doing then you are more than welcome to take up the matter with the drug dealer himself”

You know there is a lot of opposition to non essential drug consumption and it is not because the people are prohibitionist by nature...you know that.
They simply support the existing laws that they believe will create more harmony and law and order in society but more importantly in their own personal world and or protect themselves and family members from products that are harmful in ways that are often misunderstood.
They are not willing to be the laboratory rats that find out if it is good or bad or how good or how bad..They prefer to take the advice of their government officials on such matters. Whether it be the right way or wrong way they are happy enough being informed and forewarned while understanding and knowing the drug has its detriments.
If other people want to find out the hard way if what the government says is true then they realize that there will many that will consume it and prove the government wrong or right and or just how right or wrong either side of the argument is.
There are many, many laws attached to consumer products that are enacted in the attempt to protect consumers (the citizens of the nation) from the known harmful effects and or perceived harmful effects of those numerous products....this you know and you support many of them and if you reviewed the reasons why the laws and regulations and rules were formed you would commonly agree that they are sensible...and or needed.
You would want the rules and regulations that support a general sense of supply and consumption "decorum" that is attached to products that the government and or the mass of citizens agree need to have regulations and laws attached to them.

In part, this what we pay taxes for and it is expected of the government personal to be there to protect the masses of people from the harmful aspects of many products that are on offer to the public.
Without them you can be assured there would be all too many nefarious types who would sell you anything they can as long as it makes a dollar and there are suc***s there to buy the products.

Point being: Before there were any laws attached to the consumption of drugs the supply end aspect was not conducive to the well being of the consumers.
The suppliers were all to often totally dishonest and corrupted individuals that profited from the sales of their snake oil products and got away with it for a long time while cheating the people out of their money while getting the people addicted to the drugs.
This is the legacy of drug supply and drug consumption and continues to this day in many respects.
The drug trafficking business is hardly innocent as history proves and it is not only because of the laws or absence of the laws...The nature of the business is sinister. Unwarranted profiteering while supplying addictive substances they gladly supply to that percent of the people who consume them.

You seem to be a well enough read person and if that is the case then you know well that many of the drugs that people like yourself are fighting to have legalized were at one time legal ( as in not having any particular laws attached to their manufacture or supply and or the consumption)

As drug related problems evolved the government (remember, the government is people) were confronted with the problems and often it was the public that demanded their government personal help them to rectify the problems.

You seem to be a well read person so you must know about the history of drugs and all the negative ramifications that evolved back then when there were no laws and regulations for the supply and consumption...other than supplying as much as you can and consume it at leisure.
It is not my opinion...it is history and if you want to refute the hundreds of scholars and academics and historians on what actually did happen during the days of no laws and rules of supply and liberal, personal self serving consumption then that is your right to do so...but I choose to heed the warnings and recognize the problems associated with liberal drug consumption.

By what you say and by what the pro legalization platform says, the people have been lied to and they should be told the truth about the drugs and they should try the drugs themselves and allow the drugs to be liberally and legally available...and the governments (other People) have no right what so ever to tell you what you can and can not do.

That is not an unreasonable request considering that alcohol and tobacco are legally available and on that argument alone the drug should be legal.
But the government (other People in charge of the accountability of public consumption) will continue to tell you and others what you can do and what you can not do…or at least the extent of what you can or can not do.
If you can not except the fact that we all live under rules and regulations and have always lived under rules and regulations, since the day we were born then please ...just shoot yourself so you don’t have to live with the anxiety and frustrations of living in a world FULL of rules and regulations and laws that restrict you from doing many things in life.
By what you say in your submissions and what you are posting you don’t seem to be coping well with the rules and regulations that Billions of other people cope with.

I guess we should teach all the children in school to be anti establishment and most importantly...do not listen to the rules and regulations and any laws in the house hold because you mother and father are part of the establishment.
Always fight the rules and laws and regulations and question your mother and fathers motives...they are fascist pigs. Wake up and enlighten yourself with marijuana and see the world for what it really is and challenge your parents authority.

Like I said before: I am not prohibitionist…but I support law and order and I don’t have a problem with the laws and rules and do not intend on challenging them and frustrating myself over a silly drug.

I simply want less of the drugs in society and that is not unreasonable for me to want that considering all the conflict the drugs create in society and the contention amongst the citizens that would rather not have all the more “non essential drugs” around, consumed for recreational purposes.

If you say that you consume the drug for medicinal purposes then I even question that agenda because part of the problem in North America is the fact that all too may people in the USA are hardly healthy and their life style choices are hardly healthy including drug consumption to relieve them of what ails them.

The drug companies love the fact that year by year all the more people are becoming dependant on the drugs to solve their health problems rather than practicing far healthier life style choices.

There are hundreds of natural (non Drug effect ) remedies in the market that can and often do provide cures and or substantial relief from what ails people.
I am certain you could find other totally natural means to fix your health problems.
Substances that to not result in a very intoxicated state for the user.

When they come up with formulas that take away the intoxicating aspect of marijuana then you have yourself a far more natural substance that can be useful.
But that would take away the enjoyment of being stoned all the time!

Stone free natural medical substances are far more acceptable.

Smoking pot and getting high all the time while telling everyone you need it for medicinal purposes and the high you get from it is not your purpose for consuming the drug is somewhat laughable.

Just admit it: You love the drug. You lust for the drug and in some ways and respects you are addicted to the drug.