Re: Marijuana's Effects On Consciousness

First of all I would like to somewhat apologise for posting my submission under this particular thread which is headlined as: Marijuana's effects on consciousness.
My submission should be posted in another section concerning the marijuana consumpton debate...but, while I am here I can assure you that near everything you have to say about the effects on a persons consiousness is more or less positive.
As I said before: I used to do the drug a fair amount and I know well that it is a fun drug and a soothing drug for most consumers and it has all kinds of wonderful effects on your brain while you are stoned while enjoying the stone.
It is so enjoyable a notable percent of the people want to continue the stoned feeling and therefore consume the drug again and again...in part for the effects on thier consciousness besides being part of a social practice amongst many citizens.
The effects on peoples brains is not fully understood so there is lots of room to experiment and learn.
Go ahead...you can be assured you will have lots of fun along the way.
If you want to be a lab rat for experimentation to prove the positives verses the negatives then you are more than welcome to volunteer and consume all the marijuana you can tolerate and we will learn together if YOU are better for it or worse off for it.
I will feed it to you and I will watch your reactions .....both good and bad.
Meantime, I choose not to experiment and I do not need to know and I don't care to find out the hard way if it has its negative effects also. Lets say my sixth sense tells me to let other people experiment and learn and I will listen as I am certain there are some negative effects also and that is what concerns me.
I did the drug for years. I know I am not missing out on anything significant at all.Nothing worth pursuing further and certainly not worth defending its consumption.
I will leave that up to you if you feel so strongly and you feel it is such a noble and noteworthy cause to defend and pursue.

But while I am here I will answer to what I previously said:

"However when knowing what I know about drug consumption and all that it entials I would much rather live in a society that is drug free and I really wish people would not take up the consumption of the drug(s)"

What about "drugs" that ease peoples pain? Or "drugs" like sugar? The ultimate gateway drug.

My Answer: Here we go again..as expected...evasive reasoning.Stick to the subject matter and let marijuana stand on its own merits and detriments....the good andthe bad.
Stop comparing the drug to other substances while trying to avoid the issue concerning the specific negatives associated with the drug and its consumption while side stepping the issue of the known negatives concerning its consumption and the need to recognise them.
As for the medicinal use of the drug?
I support it's legitimate and regulated use as one day I may need to use it myself. But that is a somewhat loaded answer because I know well that the marijuana consumers, all too often, are far from honest or forthright or even sincere about the use of the drug for medicinal puposes.
The medicinal marijuana consumption system that has evolved is very corrupted and some statistics show that less than 5% of the card carrying medical marijuana consumers are legitimate users.
I would be inclined to believe the figures that state around 20 percent of users are legitimate and give them the benifit of the doubt about their collective honesty.
The drug consumers are the big users of statistics to argue in favour of the drug consumption. Meantime the data shows that a overwhelming majority of the pot heads
(habitual consumers) abuse the legitimate system that was meant to help those that really are in need of the drug. You can clearly see that all too many of marjiuana consumers are seemingly self centered about their consumption of the drug. Apparently they will participate in scamming a perfectly legitimate medical system that evolved out of compassion for people in need of a usefull medical substance.
That particular aspect of legal drug consumption that has evolved and how the pot heads have corrupted it is an excellant example of the collective mentality of the habitual marijuana consumer known effectionately as: POT HEADS!
What else can we expect from the habitual marijauna consumers after the system is further legalised.



Then of course there is caffeine...another "drug".

My answer: Exactly. Another drug? So we are just adding one more drug to the problem and we are expected to accept it and its problems because there already are other problematic drugs and or other problematic consumer subtances??? So this is the best answer you can offer when marijuana is pointed out to have its own problems also??
Again, stick to the subject of marijauna and let the drug stand on its own merits concerning its good points and bad points.
We all know well the good points that the drug consumer wants us to desperately acknowledge and we have and will continue to aknowledge good points and suggestions but comparisons are not the best answer. Meantime do the drug free citizens the respect of acknowledging its negatives and detriments to individuals and to society in general.

"The negatives will continue to exist even if the drug is fully legalised and regulated the way that marijuana consumers want it to be, the same or similar to alcohol and presrciption drugs."

Who says we want it regulated...it's a natural herb made by the creator, ingested properly there are no negatives.

Answer: Gee wizz I did not realise that there are no problems with the drug..I guess I have been duped for falling for all those legitimate "NON GOVERNMENT data based reports that continue to inform us and educated us about the numerous known problems with the consumption of the drug.
Just as the Prohibitionists dream on about the total elimination or even a notable reduction of the drug consumption, many of the drug consumers live in their own dream world actually hoping and wishing that the governments of the world will let the citizens consume the drug at liesure. The government,of course, would be keeping their fingers crossed hoping that all the millions of drug consumers will naturally police themselves and every one of them will follow the golden rules of drug consumption decorum and never violate any of those rules.
Not going to happen EVER and the sooner you realise that and accept that the sooner it will help to make the staunch prohibitionist wake up to the fact that there has to be a middle ground that accomodates the marijuana consumer in the scheme of things also.

"And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat."

My answer: May have worked back then but that was then and they did not know nearly as much as they know now about the drug and the associated problems with its consumption.
There were not millions and millions of people taking the drugs on top of more drugs on top of more drugs and or a long list of negative substances that need to have some degree of control and law enforcement attached to their wide spread public consumption.

"I want the drug to be legalised so we can see once and for all just how well behaved or just how nasty the legal drug"

5 Years After: Portugal's Drug Decriminalization Policy Shows Positive Results
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=portugal-drug-decriminalization


My Answer: Ahhhh yes. Positive results. Of course there was / is positive results. However, as usual, you forgot to include the negative results that are so easily ignored.

****Is the ongoing consistancy in ignoring the negatives of marijuana consumption something that is "developed" by the drug consumers or is it a naturally inherited gene that I did not inherit and you did.***

On the other hand the non drug consumers will continue to acknowledge and respect any positive aspects of the drug consumption and take them into consideration. As you have already seen evolve by way of the decriminalization of the drug in many parts of the world and the semi legal consumption environment of the drug in many parts of the world we can see the trend is towards legalisation.

"I will point out and agree that there are many people
( what percent???) that are wonderfull people who are otherwise law abiding productive citizens who consume marijuana.
Granted? They are the "Good Folk" percent of the marijuana consumers.
It is the considerable percent of bad boy drug consumers that are also involved making matters worse for the common citizens."

Did you ever think that maybe because it is illegal, that influences people to become part of the culture of illegal activity? Does alcohol have this same connotation in your view? Are people that consume alcohol nefarious? Except for the "Good Folk" drinkers?

My answer: Yes ..and that is why I want it legalized so we can better recognize the self serving excuses verses the hard facts concerning the conduct of THAT percent of people. The people who consume the mind altering and physically altering substances that effect their public social conduct and how they interact with "sober,lucid people".
You know..the sober,lucid individuals who are the sworn enemy that the drug consumers loath so much because many others choose to be drug free and want to advise you and others to listen to sensible advice when they advise it is best not to take the drug.
You ask: "Are some of the people that consume alcohol nefarious???" You bet your life many of them are and that is a known fact and it makes the responsible drinkers look bad and makes the drug called alcohol all the more sinister looking.

"Do not take the drug(s)"

My answer: Yes better not to take the drugs. Simple good advice. Your family would be happy knowing you do not consume the drug.

Do not consume food?

My answer: Truely bad comparison.ButI will visit you in the hospital after you do not consume the ESSENTIAL elements called food wich is "absolutely needed" for your well being and survival.
Marijauna, on the other hand, is NOT needed ...at all!

Hippocrates: “Let food be thy medicine and medicine be thy food”

My Answer:You can live by that principle if you feel it suits you and as long as it does not cause any grief or consternation amongst the other citizens.
If every marijuana consumer was to consume their pot in the sanctuary of their home and sit there while totally immobilised by the drug and not move for the next 12 hours until the drug effects wore off then I would love the drug to death for being nearly non problematic to any one else in any significant way.
But that is not the case with the overall consumption of the drug.
It is a party harty,yahoo,yeehaw drug for most consumers. Where the drug goes the trouble goes and where the trouble goes the drug goes.
That is not my theory about the use of the drug.
Certainly there is a lot of it consumed by responsible, other wise law abiding individuals. It is the yahoos and yeehaws and bad boys and its association with the criminal elements that the law is concerned about and it is concerned about it on your behalf also ..if you have not realised it yet.
You are also subject to any POSSIBLE bad behaviour and or the POSSIBLE negative ramifications of peoples drug consumption.
The Police and the law enforcement officials will come to your aid also, if and when there IS a drug related problem that needs their attentions. IF and when it is effecting you in some legally recognised way.
Do not think that you will not and or can not be effected in some negative way by the consumption of marijuana by other people.By the other half that ignore the social decorum practised by otherwise well behaved drug consumers. That other half ,while they are stoned on the drug called marijauna when it is obvious it surely was the drug consumption that created the problem that you are now confronted with.

Should we register you on the police data base that clearly states you are a pro marijauna advocator who repeatedly stated: "There are no problems with marijauna consumption and marijauna consumers cause no problems at all"
That being the case, then the police will simply ignore you and your drug related problem and direct their resources to other more important issues and let you solve your drug related problems on your own.
Would that be acceptable to you
Seeing as there are no problems with the drug consumption and drug consumers there is no need to listen to you when you call for law enfocement assistance related to marijuana consumption.
"False Alarm" "Some guy says a bunch of yahoos next door are smokng pot, drinking and cranking the music at 2 am in the morning."
"Hmmmmmm....Best to ignore it because they are smoking pot and we all know the pot heads are hands off now a days because it is legal now and not good public relations to arrest any pot heads no matter what they do."


"Many of the drug consumers will read this and "retort" with the usual, standard and clever denial based responces in support of the consumption of the drug ...but I dont care because I know that there are 2 kinds of people concerning drugs
Those that do not consume them and therefore they do not add to ANY problems verses those that do consume the drug and therefore create ANY problems associated with the consumption of the drug."

That is not a very logical statement, you are basically creating a strawman before anyone has even responded. There are physiological reasons why Cannabis seems to affect consciousness.

My answer: I am not sorry if the facts disturb you and or challenge your beliefs that marijuana can do no harm and the consumers of the drug can do no harm.
Furthermore you are intelligent enough to know the meaning of what I have said.

"When the drug is legalised I seriously wonder just how accountable the drug consumers will be and I wait in anticipation to see what kind of clever self serving excuses and arguements will evolve when the drug consumers are still not satisfied with the rules or regulations and certainly the laws that curb their enthusiasm and lust for the drug"

See how you just lump all "drug" users into one category, you can't even be specific in your statements. Why is that?

My answer: Again you know the meaning of what I have said and you can not side step the fact that all too many of the drug consumers argue that their consumption of the drug is innocent.
I know for certain that a percentage of the drug consumers will not abide by the new laws or regulations and rules and the rules of drug consumption decorum that you and many may very well abide by.
Remember, the laws and rules are being changed and in favour of the drug consumer and the good drug consumers reputations are at risk by way of the bad boy consumers who fortify the belief that marijuana is consumed by bad people.
Will you be one of the citizens that police the conduct of that percent of the yahoos and nefarious types that destroy the good image of the drug that you work so hard to have accepted into mainstream society??
No.... of course not.You will expect the law enforcement aspect of society to take care of that, as always because that is what is expected of your government and paid for by your tax dollars.
"Go get those trouble makers and those law breakers and protect us from the negative ramifications of such nefarious individuals that create disharmony amongst us law abiding legal marijuana consuming citizens."
"We have worked hard to make the drug acceptable and all our efforts are being destroyed by the abusers of our noble and decent drug marijuana."

Lets not make comparisons to other drugs and alcohol..lets stay on coarse here with the conduct of many of the marijauna consumers while they are stoned and functioning in a altered mental and physical state.
Lets realise the percentages and just how much of a liability the drug consumption entails.
You seem to want to say that the drug is perfectly acceptable in your mind while ignoring that many people make its consumption a questionable substance by way of their personal conduct while stoned on the substance while interacting with people who are lucid ( not stoned )and well aware that they are interacting with a person who is stoned and fuctioning in an altered mental and physical state.
Sure ....as long as the marijuana consumers are all happy and helpfull and cheerfull and hard working and energetic and don not cause any trouble at all and strive to be part of the team effort then they are and will be accepted and welcomed. Those pot heads that are like that when stoned are a bonus. However lets not try to BS one another here and tell me ALL the pot heads are a bonus to society while the lucid, drug free, non drug consumers should all welcome them with open arms and embrace them because they have been enlightened by their consumption of the drug called marijuana.The non conusmers are NOT obligated by any means or laws to have to accept the drug consumers new found, drug induced, drug seduced personalities and or their new found drug seduced and drug induced attitudes. Nor are they obligated to accept a collective mentality that commonly and belligerantly defends the use of the drug they have discovered while experimenting with just how much marijuana they can consume while having to interact with the rest of society.
The inference that the marijuana consumer simply stays at home and does not bother anyone and does not do anything wrong is a lie and just as much of a lie as SOME of the government BS propoganda used against the substance.
Once again...IF everyone of the marijauna consumers were to be a legitimate bonus to society in overwhelming ways that would encourage the rest of society to accept millions and millions of stoned people functioning in a wonderfull socially acceptable way then that would support your arguments for the consumption of the drug.But that is not the case and all too many of the marijauna consumers are of questionable value and certainly questionable conduct when they are stoned and functioning in a altered mental and physical state that comes with its detriments.
When the marijuan consumers and the POT HEADS start to admit the detrimental aspects of the drug consumption you will find the rest of society slowly begin to further accept the drug consumer as long as they are proven to be more benificial while proving themselves worthy of acceptance including the drug that comes with them.
It is a social issue as much as it is a legal issue so lets assume the drug will be legalised? The big question will be: "How much more of a burden to society will the drug consumer be and what negatives will develope in the new order of liberal legal drug consumption."

"To the non consumer it is painfully clear who exactly creates ANY of the problems that everyone else has to suffer or endure or tolerate and or begrudgingly have to accept."

Who is a non consumer? Everyone takes some substance and assimilates it. Chocolate is a drug, I have definitely seen it affect people poorly. I have seen the horrible effect of coffee in society. I have seen people build their muscles with protein and beat people up.

My answer: I have you to answer for me.Thanks. You more or less answered your own question.
Once again.As we can see there are numerous detrimental substances that have evolved as consumer products and we should take heed and learn well from the exact examples that you give as an argument.
To me and many others it does not make sense to defend the product by comparing it to another negative product while its defence clearly suggests that the other products are a problem so we might as well accept one more problem and later on we will learn just how much of a problem there is.
Sensibilities tell us: Better to be safe than sorry!

"


FOOD IS A DRUG! and EATING IS AN ADDICTION!

ANYTHING you put into your body is a DRUG, and ANYTHING you do more than once is a HABIT.
FOOD EATING IS A DRUG HABIT!
It is, in fact, the biggest drug habit of all!

My answer: Is that your logic?
Do I need to consume marijuana for my well being and or my survival? Not to my knowledge.
When I eat the food that I eat, I "DO NOT" experience a altered mental and physical state LIKE "that" of the drug marijuana.
Lets not BS one another here.
The drug is consumed soley for it ability to alter your mental and physical state and the drug creates a strong and overwhelming euphoric condition that commonly immobilises most people to a degree, especially if the dosage is very stong.
I eat chocolate all the time and I do not experience anything at all like that which the effects of marijauna have on me and anyone.
Come on now...that is a very loose and feeble argument and comparison concerning the specific negative side effects to NON EESSENTIAL drug consumption.
Your kind of grasping at thin air here looking for something to defend the drug.
Again...lets stick to the facts about the negatives of marijuana consumption and recognise them and take them into account as part of what to expect in relation to its wide spread consumption in a liberal legal marijauna consumption environment.


Now we know who to blame!

My answer: Once again I will defend that simple observation because I do not consume the drug ( but I did ) and while I do not consume the drug I do not add to any problems that the drug consumption does cause, even as small and insignificant as some of the related problems may be.
Each negative aspect of the drug consumption has to be recoginsed and it is recognised that the supply of the drug and its consumption creates numerous problems.
Legalisation and control of the substance will lessen the problems in SOME aspects of the the drug supply and consumption equation but there will remain numerous problems related to the consumption.
Can society tolerat them and or absorb them?
Yes we will survive but meantime I know that who ever supplies it and who ever consumes it is recognised as the source of the contention and the source of the problems that have evolved and will continue to evolve.
We know the alcohol suppliers and the alchol consumers are the basis of the problems related to alcohol consumption.
Take away any and all the laws and regulations and see what will happen.
I dont drink either so I know I am not personally contributing to the problems and ...Yes...if I wanted too I have the right to sit on top of my throne and point at the people who did create and or cause the problems associated with alcohol consumption.
That has nothing to do with over blown self righteousness and believe me I am NOT a practising puritian.
It not only applies to drug consumption ..it applies to many consumer products and I am as guilty as the rest in my consumption of many products that cause problems for you and me and the whole world population.
However, concerning the consumption of the non essential, recreational drugs I can say with confidence that my non consumption of that Particular consumer product is helping to reduce any negative impact on society where as the consumption of the same substace by other people is further adding to any of the known negatives and will continue as long as consumption continues.
I can admit that my consumption of Sugar is all part of the negatives of Sugar consumption but I do not argue on behalf of the consumption of that particualr substance and I do not defend the use of the substance.
I am guilty of many things also..but not by way of adding to the problems of drug consumption.

"

drug
late 14c. (early 14c. in Anglo-French), "medicine, chemical ingredients," from O.Fr. droge "supply, stock, provision" (14c.), of unknown origin, perhaps from M.Du. or M.L.G. droge-vate "dry barrels," or droge waere, lit. “dry wares,” but specifically drugs and spices, with first element mistaken as word for the contents (see dry goods), or because medicines mostly consisted of dried herbs. Cf. L. species, in L.L. “wares,” then specialized to “spices” (Fr. épic, Eng. spice). The same source produced It., Sp. droga, Swed. drog. Application to "narcotics and opiates" is late 19c., though association with "poisons" is 1500s. The verb is from c.1600. Druggie first recorded 1968. To be a drug on or in the market (mid-17c.) is of doubtful connection and may be a different word, perhaps a play on drag, which was sometimes drug c.1240-1800."
Portugal's drug policy
Treating, not punishing
http://www.economist.com/node/14309861


As I said ..there will be many retorts with the same pro drug consumption logic comparing one substance to another while clearly defending the drug and its use while clearly sending the message that the drug is perfectly acceptable.
Like I said ..please go ahead and consume it and learn what further negatives we will encounter and please keep on coming up with the creative defences for the drug.
I anticipate what will evolve and I know the average drug consumer will carry on like there is no problems with his individual drug consumption and or any connection with the overall problems associated with the consumption.
We will learn the extent of the contention in a liberal legal marijauna consuming environment and society will learn to tolerate the negatives.
Meantime I will still be telling people the same as always: Better not to take the drug and dont waste your time defending the use of the drug.Let others do that as there are more than enough people that feel it is a worthy cause and worthy of their participation.
No need to join the club...the benifits are not all they are touted to be.

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