It would be nice if people state WHICH flush they actually did because theres alot that to me are more likely to cause these problems. This is why I stick to Hulda Clark and William Donald Kelley methods.
Fighting the Medical Mafia Matrix & the aids SCAM
¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸, 2TUFF ,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤
Research the following excellent sources
Jon Rappoport, Harvey Bialy, Christine Maggiore
Dr Kary Mullis, Dr. Heinz Ludwig Sänger
Dr Peter Duesberg, Dr Robert Root-Bernstein
Dr Eleni Papadopulos-Eleopulos, Dr Valendar Turner
Dr Gordon Stewart, Dr Alfred Hässig, Dr Charles Thomas Jr
Dr Richard Strohman, Dr David Rasnick, Dr Charles Geshekter
Dr Etienne de Harven, Dr Joseph Sonnabend, Dr Casper Schmidt
Dr Heinrich Kremer, Dr Stefan Lanka
Re: MY HORROR STORY WITH LIVER FLUSH... ohfor07
15 years ago
Re: why this happened to you John Cullison
15 years ago
SOOOOOOOOOOO that all being said.....wouldn't it be MUCH better for someone like me to start out SLOWLY with the oil....like maybe incorporate a teaspoon per day then up it as I get use to it. AND the ONLY way I canactually drink the stuff (cuz olive oil is sooooooo nasty tasting)
Mom, as far as gradually introducing olive oil into your daily diet, by all means do, but what does this have to do with the LiverFlush? The use of Olive Oil as part of the Clark Liver Flush protocol has nothing to do with making it a part of your daily diet, it has to do with making it a one-day-only part of the procedure that culminates the Clark Liver Flush; it is a quite significant part at that. The amount of Olive Oil Clark prescribes is specifically to cause the great expulsion reaction by the liver, ducts and gallbladder. If you did not take the prescribed amount then this is likely the cause for the lodged stone. If taking the prescribed amount of Olive Oil is difficult for you then the Clark flush is not for you and you should not try to forge ahead with it minus the Olive Oil.
You asked what you've done wrong, so I'll offer my opinion. (I am not a doctor or licensed medical practitioner of any sort.) I don't know how many flushes you've done, or what your other experiences are, but I'm going to speak as if you were a beginner, because I don't know any better, and what I'm saying is vital for any beginner to understand.
I note in another message that you comment that you once did a liver flush without using the Epsom salt drinks. From simply this one statement, it's pretty apparent that you had no business doing liver flushes at that time. As you pointed out, you've read some of Moritz's material and realized that you should have done much more prep work. That's an understatement.
One problem that we have here at CureZone is that some folks manage to see great results by doing the programs haphazardly or "their own special way", skipping steps, doing things differently, whatever, and for these folks, it's great, but when they start telling other people that the altered procedures is how other beginners should do it, this is where the danger lies. This laissez-faire attitude comes back and bites everyone else, because then we have folks running around giving horror stories and blaming the horror story on "the liver flush" rather than the specific deviations from a standard liver flush that the person did. In other words, blaming "the liver flush" for the horror story is kind of like substituting salt for sugar, corn starch for flour, and leaving out the eggs, and then complaining that the cake recipe is flawed when some awful mess comes out of the oven.
Serious illness from the Dr. Hulda Clark style liver flush comes from incomplete parasite cleansing (assuming that you've done the procedure correctly, including Epsom Salt drinks). That's it. Parasite flushing can be incomplete for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is insufficient colon cleansing. Other possibilities include continuous parasite reinfection, continued exposure to parasite-friendly toxins, or simply not doing the parasite cleansing program long enough.
It is vital
that the prep work be done before doing liver flushes. Now, if you are healthy, if you know yourself well, or if you just know that you don't need to do those prep steps, then you can probably
get away without doing them. It does work for some people. (Then they come back here and encourage others to just go straight to liver flushing... I'd like to smack them, sometimes... They mean well, but something about hell and paved roads and good intentions keeps coming to mind.) That is the exception, however, and not the rule. No one who does the full prep work, however, and who does the process by the book, comes back and reports horror stories. Slow progress, sure. Disappointing results, sometimes. Great results, sometimes. Strange things in the toilet bowl, sure. Pictures of stones sometimes. But horror stories? No.
The only time I've ever personally experienced the horror stories is when I've (wildly) deviated from the plan, and my horror stories include giving myself full blown gall bladder attacks, so I've suffered for my experience on the subject and know a little about it. (Search for my name in the archives if you're curious.)
Different well known pros in the field have different preferred methods. If you want to be able to create your own specially tailored version, I suggest you study lots of different pros, see what they have to say, find what they have in common, find out why they recommend what they do, and then explore the archives and see what others have done, what successes and failures they've had. Then tailor something to you. (Please, no one else should need to suffer through a horror story. We've already done it enough. I have already done it enough. Learn from my mistakes! Much less painful that way.)
For example, there are a wide variety of ways to do colon cleansing. It doesn't really matter, in most cases, which way you do it, so long as you do it and do it first (with extremely rare exceptions -- if you have doubts about your ability to do colon cleansing, then you're probably one of those exceptions). Some folks like enemas and colonics, some folks prefer herbals or teas, others like magnesium and oxygen supplements, some go for the ol' daily quart of warm salt water, still others prefer juice fasting (say, prune and apple juices), and yet another group of folks swear by psyllium husks and bentonite clay. Many folks use a combination of these methods. There are probably others. So the how is not so important. You are free to experiment here, but you can probably already guess that some methods are going to appeal to you more than others. Try them. If they work, great. If not, stop and find something else. If you're unsure, pick a pro that appeals to you and follow his or her program to the letter. No deviations. Remember the cake recipe?
As you do this, you'll learn more about how your own body works, which is valuable experience for helping decide what to do on subsequent steps. When you deviate from a program, however, please realize that, until you really know your body well, you're always taking a risk that you might suffer as a result. The "pros" lay out their programs with specific steps for a reason. Learn your body, and learn the reasons, and you'll master your health in no time.
Did you take Ortho-Phos to soften th... #5874
15 years ago
Re: MY HORROR STORY WITH LIVER FLUSH... Torpedolynn
15 years ago
- Thanks, John, for your excellent pos... Somer
15 years ago
I really enjoyed your to-the-point wisdom. Right on!
Are you currently flushing? How often do you flush? Did you have acne, as well as enlarged pores? How's the skin looking?
I am a die-hard colon cleanser (three years and counting), have done lots of colonics, herbs, Master Cleanses and juice fasts, as well as a few liver flushes. I am currently on day 7 of an MC, which also flushes the liver (not like a good stiff dose of The Oil I'll grant!) and this trip have passed large amounts of black, tarry sludge, and the salt water flush yields BLACK "butt pee" (as we SWFers fondly call it)... had someone in the Bowel Cleanse Forum
direct me to some threads reminding us the liver processes drugs (OF COURSE!)... I did a pharmaceutical parasite
treatment a week prior to the MC, and am pretty sure this is the source. During my workout the last couple of days I have tasted pills in the back of my throat!
Have you had any experience with black gunk, liver related? I would appreciate any feedback.
Best to you,
My name is Lynn. I firmly believe in starting slow and working your way up. I am doing this with Dr. Shutlz Colon cleanse. I did the five day cleanse and now I am slowly buying product to do the two month Colon Cleanse
with a Liver Flush
and kidney flush. I will probably start small on those flush and work myself to a full dose. The first sign of trouble and I will back off and start again untill some day I can do one full flush. I am a very short person so his adult dose may always be to much for me and I may never get to the full doses. I take several of his products and can easly get results with much less then called for. Hope my info helps you some.
In Light Lynn
Re: MY HORROR STORY WITH LIVER FLUSH... mlclampit
15 years ago
- Re: MY HORROR STORY WITH LIVER FLUSH... Mom
15 years ago
Yes I am the very same way. I am only about 5 foot tall and these full doses KILL me. I don't care what anyone here says.....there are times when folks like us just can NOT take the doses recommended. I feel that although the information here is usually REALLY FANTASTIC, that some just throw doses around like it was a "one size fits all" and it clearly is not. The standard doses for a person weighing 160 pounds
and about 5'8 just will NOT work for someone who is only 5 foot and 130 pounds
or less. Common sense tells us this. I wish they would give doses that are more realistic and are more height, weight and gender specific so that folks like us don't have to suffer so badly when we attempt to take the doses that are good for them. And then we have to suffer when our bodies over react to them. NOT FUN!
THANKS for posting Lynn..... Glad to know I'm not the only one who feels this way.
- Re: MY HORROR STORY WITH LIVER FLUSH... aluna
15 years ago
As you stated in your first message, you didn't do the prep work and now you know why! You hurt yourself by not doing what was needed.
The one thing I can never stress enough is that all of these protocols work if done correctly and with a liver flush, it is imperative that you do a complete colon cleanse. I was colon/ parasite
cleansing for three months before I even considered a Liver Flush
due to the foreign matter I kept seeing in bowel movements. Once I felt sure I had done all I could to cleanse the passageway, then I did almost a month of stone softening out of plain fear that the liver cleanse just might hurt or I might get a stone stuck. Then finally I got brave enough to do the liver cleanse and was totally shocked at the hundreds of stones that came out of me. I could feel them traveling though my colon and I did experience a few winces of pain that only last a couple of seconds due to the large amount of calcified stones I excreted.
The benefits of the cleanse was a much flatter belly, I felt much lighter and had a lot more energy. The down fall for me, was that I awakened a virus that caused a very itchy rash on my chest and underarms. It lessens with each liver cleanse (11 so far), but it is still an issue, so I know there is more work to do to get rid of this invader.
It pays to do things correctly, but you didn't and now you are barking up the wrong tree by stating a liver cleanse almost killed you. It wasn't the cleanse, it was the way you went about it. Had you done it correctly, and thoroughly investigated the procedures you might have been very successful and could have improved your health a great deal.
Let this be a warning to anyone who chooses to follow any procedures described by any member on here. We all do things our own way in our own time and our bodies are all in different states of health, so KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING AND TAKE THE ADVICE OF EXPERTS, and read the books on the subject, not paragraphs on a web site!
While there is a ton of valuable information to be garnished from CureZone Forums
, the mixed procedures is not the way to go. Find one protocol you feel you can do, research it, read the books associated with the subject, do it as it should be done, don't take shortcuts that you read on here until you know what you are doing, and more than likely you will see good results.
I'm glad you didn't hurt yourself, but it is obvious you need to clean out that liver of yours, so if you decide to try again, please be completely informed about all the steps, why they are necesary and what they should do for you, before you rush to the final results.
- Re: MY HORROR STORY WITH LIVER FLUSH... DangerousProduce
15 years ago
The various experts determined how much of which ingredient is taken under certain conditions for their particular flush. The particular amount of olive oil for that particular flush was determined not just by using it on just one person, as you did.
Things like weight can vary greatly from person to person even of the same height. But how relevant is the weight to this procedure (flush)? Who is this determined by, you or the person who created or developed the flush formula? If one person weighs 130 and another weighs 260 does the heavier person have eyes that are twice as big? Or a head that is 2 times the size of the first person in circumference? I don't think so. Not everything in a person is larger just because there is MORE FAT. I think it makes common sense that because so many of our vital organs are about the same size that adding a lot of fat around them makes it so hard for that NORMAL sized organ to handle properly, and becomes dangerous to health. Just because there is more fat around the liver of a person who is 160 lbs.
does not mean the liver is going to grow larger than normal. You could have a liver that is not functioning right (like fatty liver) and is out of shape due to having to process so much extra fat every day.
There is an average weight of the liver that is used as a standard in measuring things. One for men and one for women. You have to know how this combination of ingredients in the Liver Flush
works by observing and measuring the results with different amounts. This is a functional analysis and how much to take is not obtained by studying anatomy alone. The flush ingredients are meant to work through the gallbladder and liver and not really react with your feet, other organs or get used up in your fatty tissue and make a fat person need so much more of it. The flush is specifically designed to work on those organs like the gallbladder that those who use it are talking about and not other organs. Using olive oil and the other food ingredients is not like using chemotherapy. Chemotherapy depends on how much a person weights and you are given so many milligrans of a chemotherapy agent per pound of your weight. Here it makes a difference whether you are 130 lbs.
or 160 lbs.
because it was DESIGNED TO GO BY WEIGHT DURING ITS RESEARCH. Unlike the liver flush, chemotherapy is not specific and attacks and is used up by the normal organ tissue that absorbs it before arriving at the cancerous organ it is supposed to attack. This makes the weight important--you have to be sure you have enough to get to the organ with the cancer.
The Liver Flush
does not work by weight. The Liver Flush
was designed to work on the liver and gallbladder (DURING ITS RESEARCH) and to be ignored by the other systems on its way there. For example, the liver is a large, important organ and the olive oil amount plus ingredients are designed to work on the usual liver size--they are not that different from person to person.
That the answer may confuse you is not surprizing. If this is the very first time you tried this flush, then most likely this is the very first time you came up with your OWN FUNCTIONAL ANALYSIS of what is going on (inside) with the olive oil (and ingredients). Previous to this you must have thought that swallowing the olive oil was a simple chemical reaction like what would take place in a test tube. The liver and gallbladder are not inert like the test tube in a high school chemistry class. The liver and gallbladder react with the flush ingredients, because it was designed that way because of someone's knowledge the relevant chemistry, physics, physiology principles. They produce and expell physical stones (cholesterol).
You cannot design your own liver flush after one flush and just by eating a little bread and olive oil if you don't know how the body functions. Although you seem emotionally hurt that it didn't turn out as you expected, I think you got some insight into how powerful emotional forces can make anyone blind to any reason outside of the one you hold. Perhaps your husband, or someone whose opinion you value, didn't value your enthusiam for trying something new and this brought down your motivation from the very begining to follow the instructions. Per your instructions the chemistry steps took their course and you got a result that horrified you. You were honest in how you felt about it, a first step in determining what you will do next time in order to see the truth for yourself.
Two quick questions, please Mom :) LBD
14 years ago
The first time I did the liver flush, I didn't follow the directions and ended up in pain. Looking back, it was my fault. I was in the middle of a gall bladder attack when I was finally inspired to do the cleanse and hadn't fasted. Big mistake. You need to make sure your belly is empty and you are not in pain. If you've eaten fat or protein that day, your body will not be able to expel enough bile. I've also done it without the Epsom Salts
, thinking that I'm regular enough. Another mistake. Those salts are important to open the bile ducts so that stones do not get lodged. You might also want to consider taking the herb, hydrangea prior to your next cleanse as it will break down the stones into smaller pieces.
Honestly, some recipes are open to experimentation and work better. You're better off following this one to a T until you have been successful a few times and understand how each ingredient affects your body.
I have a couple of questions and I don't doubt what happened to you. You mentioned your "last liver flush" as if you had done some before. Did you use the Epsom Salts
on this scarey flush? If so, did they work, did they give you the runs?
The reason I ask, is that I was doing great with the Clark/ Epsom Salt
flush until my 5th flush when the Epsom Salts
didn't give me the runs anymore. Then I experienced a return of symptoms previously eliminated with flushing and pain in the GB area post flush, even one severe GB attack. I also sensed a mild shaking in my body. I am really concerned about people using the ES once they stop giving people the runs, I think they may be quite dangerous and I'm trying to get feedback from people who've had an adverse experience with the flush to see whether it may actually be due to the ES and not the flush itself. I think if there is enough anecdotal evidence, there may be some grounds to ask the Webmaster
to place a cautionary warning on proceeding with a flush if you don't get the runs after taking the Epsom Salts
Thanks for your time,
PS, I started doing the coke flush (done four now) and have had great success with that, and no post flush pain.
- Re: Two quick questions, please Mom ... Mom
14 years ago
Hello, No...I did not use the ES. Some folks said I did not have to so I did it without it so mine was not caused by ES. I have never used it because I was told it can excellerate the heart and I already have a heart condition so I did not want to do anything to over stress my heart. I have never done another flush since. Instead I have 1 16 oz
glass of organic apple juice per day and I have only have some light pains periodically (mostly after eating very greasy food or forgetting to drink the appple juice for a few days) but otherwise have been doing just fine. Hope this helps. Mom
- Re:Detox methods cinq
14 years ago
Hi, I have recently found this fascinating site.
I thought I was open minded but the descriptions of Liver Flushes
have left me questioning: is this 'HEALTHY'?
Are people treating quite chronic symptoms and that is why they are prepared to go through such drastic / harsh detox procedures?
It's really helpful to read peoples' experiences of course, especially the results they got from a certain course of treatment.
I came to the site (live in Europe) because I can see a connection between a few complaints I have that recur.
These are that I have suffered from Acne
which has only really been sorted now that I am forty, get psoriarsis/sebhorrea of the scalp, some athletes foot, nervous rashes, feel fatigued / fuzzy a lot of the time. So having read around these subjects, I have come across many (mindboggling amounts of info!)leads but have decided to take Oxypowder
to cleanse my bowels as I rarely have BMs and to drink much more water (oxygenated sounds good).
I do feel that too much food overloads my system and literally poisons me if I think about it. Perhaps that I have symptoms of bad circulation or blood. Lots of Amalgam
fillings...what am I to think!!
Any thoughts?...I want to be quite sensible NOT obssessional about my health as I don't have enough money or free time to indulge in things that 'might' work.
Thanks beforehand to anyone who responds and sorry if some of this sounds negative at all, I just want to find a path through any cures that might be Myths and know which ones to focus on. It's brilliant to be able to share experiences.