Re: Peace???

Where do I start. First off my wife has been following this protocol. She has been doing it for months. Just as she has done numerous protocols in the past. She has done so many elimination cleanses through the years I have lost count. We fully understand toxin buildup and elimination. She has done almost 100% raw food for almost 2 years. I am afraid to see what fermented nightmares may lurk in the corners of our home as she tries some new fermented food recipe. I built her an infrared sauna she has been using for 2 1/2 years. I could continue on but it is not important. We have excepted that her not getting well until this point (and possibly never) is Gods sovereign will for our lives. We look to him for comfort an guidance. Just as Paul was afflicted and he was never delivered from those afflictions. What was Gods answer to Paul when he pleaded 3 times to be delivered

“My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness. Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses”

II Corinthians 12

7 So to keep me from being too elated by the surpassing greatness of the revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to harass me, to keep me from being too elated. 8 Three times I pleaded with the Lord about this, that it should leave me. 9 But he said to me, My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness. Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10 For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities. For when I am weak, then I am strong.




Now on to faith without works.

First off when reading the book of James it need to be studied in parallel with Romans and Galatians. You will find in reading these books that man is incapable of doing good works.

Romans 3 10-18

10 as it is written:
None is righteous, no, not one;
11
no one understands;

no one seeks for God.
12
All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;

no one does good,

not even one.
13
Their throat is an open grave;

they use their tongues to deceive.

The venom of asps is under their lips.
14
Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.
15
Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16
in their paths are ruin and misery,
17
and the way of peace they have not known.
18
There is no fear of God before their eyes.

Paul himself said in Romans 7

18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing.

The point is the works he is talking about there is related to Abraham.

How was Abraham saved?

Romans 4

3 For what does the Scripture say? Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness. 4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. 5 And to the one who does not work but trusts him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,



The point James was trying to make is that there should be proof of justification. Abraham's proof was in the attempted sacrifice of his son Isaac.



Now your Esau comment which lead into your comment about the free will of man.

I do not think man has free will in the sense that you think.

Let us first look at your Esau analogy


Romans 9

9 For this is what the promise said: About this time next year I will return and Sarah shall have a son. 10 And not only so, but also when Rebecca had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, 11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of his call— 12 she was told, The older will serve the younger. 13 As it is written, Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated. 14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means!

NOT BECAUSE OF HIS WORKS.......

HMMMMMMMM

in order that God's purpose of election might continue........


Either God is sovereign in all things or he is sovereign in nothing


Lets look at some more examples in Scripture regards to man’s ability to choose

Romans 8

28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. 29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

He predestined

Ephesians 1

4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,

HIS WILL........Predestined............Chose us before the foundation of the world

and in verse 11

In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,

Does not sound like our choice

lets look a little deeper.

John 6

44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

the greek word for draws in that passage is helkuo
if you have strongs greek dictionary the # is 1670
it means forcibly compelled or dragged.

once again not a choice.

Now let me say we do choose God, but not until he chooses us in his love first. He gives us a new heart that has a new desire for him

So the word is preached. Who will accept Christ?

Acts 13 gives us a good picture

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.


If you would like to take it to the forums on my website we can debate the theological points of this there.



People who believe the way I do often are accused of being prideful, arrogant, thinking we are better because we are chosen. etc. I do not understand all of Gods ways. I can only submit to scripture. Even when I do not like what it says.

Romans 9

17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth. 18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills. 19 You will say to me then, Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will? 20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, Why have you made me like this? 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honored use and another for dishonorable use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory—

So he chose us beforehand to show us the riches of his glory.

This all comes down to one thing

Grace

I am thankful that God in his undeserving grace chose me, and gave me my wonderful wife.
I do not deserve what he has given me, and even though my wife is sick I will praise him in this storm.

The reason I wrote to LISTEN TO ME is that sometimes God takes us all the way down before revealing his grace. We pray this is the case for her, because it could be the beginning of a new life for her.

And for all you people struggling please jump on iTunes and grab “Praise you in this storm” by Casting Crowns.

God Holds all of your tears in his hands


This has drifted into a purely theological debate at this point.
It may be better to move it off of this forum.

I created a thread on the forum on my website if you want to move it.


The link is below

http://thornsandnails.com/forums/index.php?topic=18.0