Re: check your dictionary: I'm not sure you meant obtuse??

I'm glad you're a moderator here...but, water fasters do not believe you have to flush anything first--that's the first place we differ.

Distilled water is not polluted, which is what we drink, and we don't find evidence of food being so polluted, I'm talking fruits and vegetables from the supermarket, that the body has any trouble detoxifying itself. Now if you're talking processed foods, salt added, sweetners, fast food burgers, that's a different story.

Over here we like to go on evidence. So I'd like to see some peer reviewed studies that show that "basically I could say the that average northamerican has cholesterol stones and parasites... they also usually have heavy metal and environmental toxicity......" You're essentially saying the population of the entire continent.

I doubt you can support this with any studies. On the boards I've read, and I've read extensively and been at this for over 40 years, the assumption is that everybody either needs or could benefit from just about every kind of clease that's mentioned. You have only to look at the Master-Cleanse board to see that every person is routinely advised to cleanse about every organ they have as well as parasitic cleanses. And the advice is to continue these practices often or at least many do it over and over. If you are honest you cannot deny this.

"Most of us here dont promote a lot of products.... but herbal medicine and others have been practiced for hundreds of years..... they work.. and they balance on more than the psysical level...." Water fasters have found that food and fasting do the job. It's the odd person who needs medicines. After all as Andrew Weil points out, herbs are just medicines. Not to knock all medicines. We need surgery for trauma, certainly anesthesia for surgery, pain killers at times, Antibiotics , etc. But recommending herbs, vitamins, supplements, etc. is foreign to most water fasters. We find that nutrition and fasting when needed work almost always to allow the body to function in good health. Further, to say that an herbal remedy works is nonsensical to me. Do they permanently cure? Do you have to try one, then another? Are some dangerous? Do some interact with other herbs and medications? And just because something works doesn't say much to me. My blood pressure meds worked too. To bad they didn't make me healthy. Herbs are medicines that we self prescribe. We find they aren't needed for health.

"Water fasting is not for everyone..... I have tried it.. I am hypoglycemic and have heavy metal issues... I was also exposed to a large amount of nerve gas.... Water Fasting is not the safest and most effective way for me to get healthy again...."

No, not everyone even needs to water fast. Correct diet may do it alone. But water fasters don't practice Salt water flushes, laxatives (herbal or other), enemas except in rare cases of medical need, zapping for parasites or taking concoctions for killing them.

To say you water fasted tells me nothing. Hypoglycemia routinely resolves through water fasting. I've probably read most of the material you would refer too, and done most of the practices. I wonder if you've read Fuhrman on fasting and nutrition? Or if you're familiar with the whole movement of the International Association of Hygenic Physicians?

You probably have no way of evaluating whether Water Fasting is appropriate for you unless you contacted one of the doctors in the association above for evaluation. We don't prescribe cures here. We advise people to have consultations with qualified practitioners, or if they are determined to go it on their own, to begin very gently with a cleansing diet, a meal or two of fasting a week for a few weeks. A day a week for a few weeks, a 3 day fast occaisionally, thus do a lot of housecleaning before they even think about an extended fast.

On the Master-Cleanse board, again I use this only as an exapmle, I read of people doing the cleanse and breaking the fast and returning to junk diets with hardly any help or anyone telling them you're going to be just as ill as you were if you do that.

The other boards, as far as I can tell, have a certain ecle cticism. We here have chosen one modality. It works almost universally. What you've read is my heart felt cry of sorrow, having gone through so many of the modalities advocated by scores of people, for those looking for a permanent sense of wellness. Instead, many become continual seekers.

We believe we've found a simple, pure, affordable, and medically proved method of maintaining or regaining health. I haven't been on any other boards sharing any of this information, but I certainly hope some curezone people find us here. There are a few, in only a short time, who can attest to their failures using the other modalities and are already experiencing health from the simple discipline of nutrition and water fasting.

I also find little emphasis, or at least a lot less than I would prefer, on nutrition. We stress it here before cleanses, flushes, etc. Ours is simple, all the fruits, vegetables, beans and legumes you want, limited grains, starches and nuts. That's it. No added oils, no sweeteners, no drugs needed unless prescribed and after a doctor has tried a drugless approach or a person has a wasting disease or is so critical that they need medication to live until health can be regained.

Since I've tried most of the practices on these boards and read the sources, I encourage you to read "Eating and Fasting for Health" and "Eat to Live" by Joel Fuhrman, who summarizes the scientific evidence for and practice of the International Association of Hygenic Physicians. If you find something there you'd like to discuss I'd welcome it. Until you understand fully what controlled and medically supervised Water Fasting is about, you really are unable to discuss it intelligently here, anymore than we could discuss the Master-Cleanse without reading Burrough's, which I certainly don't subscribe too. I think we are in pretty bad shape, when a 600-800 a day calorie diet of sugar, lemon juice and pepper and laxatives, makes us feel better.

I don't believe I've broken any of the etiquette of the boards here, since the opinions have been shared only on this board. Cerainly no more than others, when they advocate their approach and say that water fasting is harmful and only juice fasting should be practiced or that everyone needs this or that cleanse. I was run off the MC board and this board was created for us. Check and you'll see I was the first to post here after the moderator.
It is heartbreaking to see the advice given people on these health boards. Seldom does anyone ask for a medical history, medication being taken, diagnosis, diet being ingested, age, or any other of a myriad of questions that are "necessary" before advising someone.

So, with all due respect, please read these two books and then we can discuss the issues. Our study and experience leads some of us to believe that the other modalities are less effective and can be harmful; for instance my being encouraged to do the MC when I'm diabetic (was, no longer thanks to proper diet and water fasting).

I hope you will take the time to become familiar with what we're about here before you burn us at the stake.

As you'll notice in the preceeding posts, I've not impugned the character of those on the other boards, only their knowledge. Check the Science behind what we do and show me the Science behind the other practices. You know, studies, with lab findings, clinical results, peer reviewed literature, that kind of thing. Otherwise, I have a lot of trouble with the recommendations on the other boards. But I keep it here where it belongs. Those who stumble across us just might be surprised at what some good food and a little water fasting if necessary can do.
Mike





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