Re: Ten Lies (MEN, WILL YOU JUMP IN HERE????)

This part of my message was probably not very clear:

>If a woman working outside the home corrupts it, then that couple should avoid it. >If a woman NOT having outside interests or a creative enterprise corrupts it, then >that should be avoided.

That was probably poorly written. Sorry.

Basically, the issue is not whether a woman is working or not but how she is relating to her husband. If it's in rebellion, strife and competition with him, then I think she has already become a barren personality and will lose.

I used the quote from Proverbs 31 from the Bible to show a very industrious working woman that was held out as a standard and was to be praised. The proverbs 31 woman even went out and purchased land on her own for a vineyard and also had many servants that she managed. This is not a "stay at home" wife in this Biblical example!

If feminism puts women at war with men, then it's out of balance and ultimately destructive, in my opinion. I don't say that women shouldn't collectively work to better their lot in society. There have been many things accomplished that are good - getting the right to vote, equal pay for equal jobs, etc. There are a lot of inequities that exist all over. Right now in Iraq, many Islamic women are concerned that the laws will go back to a paternalist extreme in the case of divorce, etc.

Re a woman's "soft side": I think that it's more than being soft. I think it's having good character and wisdom and understanding our own POWER. Women ARE very powerful by design. Instead of looking at our position in relationship to man as lesser and powerless---we should see how capable and powerful we really are. If we handle our relationships with men in the right way, men will often do anything for us. Not in every situation, but much more than we are getting now. (Sorry to quote the Bible so much, but there are good examples)--Jesus said something to the effect that "He who is the greatest is the servant of all." It's a backward kingdom--in order to receive, we must give. If we want love, we have to give love. If we want a harvest, we have to plant some seeds.

Right now, my ex and I have a huge child support battle raging where it has been calculated that he owes me beaucoup bucks. He has paid me a lot of money directly to me throughout the past years, but I also helped him with his business from the start and even many times recently even though we're apart. I helped him to start an international business and now he is pretty successful. Since the court deems such payments as gifts, I can atribute that money given me as being for other things (such as payment for my work, gift, repayment of debt, damages, etc.) which is absolutely true. The matter is in litigation, and he could stand to lose A LOT of money and lose his passport.

Recently, I just told him that I am going to wipe out the debt and sign an affidavit of direct payments. He is overwhelmed by my grace toward him. Knowing the consistency of his actions in the past year or so, I have no doubt that he will be there for me way beyond our children reaching the age of majority. Additionally, he said that he will purchase some land for me in the mountains because he knows that I want that. I could fight him in court and take what I think I deserve and cut off his genitalia and go buy my land myself without his lousy stinking help--ha!! In MY situation (not saying all women's situations), this is the best solution (to forgive the debt) and I believe that he will always be there for me whether we get back together or not. And perhaps we will. He has learned a lot of lessons and grown up to become a better person--and so have I!

I know two other couples, where, if the woman would have taken a less adversarial route, the man would have given her the world--anything she asked for--even though they were separated and divorcing. But they chose a different path and ended up with what the court thought was "just". I know for a fact (because I know the husbands also as they were family friends), that these men would have given them WAY beyond what the court ordered. They also had the chance to have the man's heart and restoration of everything, but both females were insecure and unable to realize what they had in the palm of their hands. Both women still love their ex's but went on unhappily into other marriages. Where's the power in THAT? She showed him, huh???

Sometimes we would rather assert a power play than ask for what we need and let him provide it. And then thank him for it.

I'm not saying that all women should do what I have chosen to do--I just want to point out that we can be very successful without being man-hating, emasculating, and competing with the men in our life/world.

BTW---my ex pays most of my bills and calls me to ask what is due and what I need. We didn't start out this way - I had to work with this until we evolved to this point. And now I know that one of his main goals in life is to make certain that I am secure and happy, whether we are together in the future ever or NOT. He appreciates my former contributions to his career, and wants me to be cared for. That is very nice, and now I am in school again to further my own career. He is happy for me on that, also. We live apart, but he is more active in the kids' lives also and is coaching my son's team. Our children are flourishing more and more--because I chose a path that is not bitter and revengeful. I had to forgive him of many things. (He had to forgive me also--just because I didn't cheat on him doesn't mean that I didn't need to be forgiven as well).

I could have been prideful, bitter, revengeful, etc. and gone thru to the end of this litigation and put him in his place and taken what is "mine". The Bible says that "mercy triumphs over justice" and I think that this particular (perhaps unique) situation calls for a forgiveness of the debt. In my situation, he did give money, just how much and what was it for? We disagree, but he always paid more money than what many women get. Just not what he probably should have paid considering the lifestyle that he has been able to live because I helped him in his business from the inception. (I suffered a lot, especially ten years ago when we split up. It did not begin so well as it is now, be assured).

I'm definitely not telling women to do this same thing - just that the principle is there and there are little things that we can do that will put us much further ahead than going tete-a-tete (head to head) in combat with the man in our life.

I wish some men would jump into this conversation here!