Re: YOU MUST BE BORN-AGAIN To Enter Into Heaven

Refreshed, when you start dissecting the words of the Bible, talking about different translations, 'well, errr, ummm, it doesn't exactly mean perfect because this word could be translated this way', it sounds like you are trying to make things fit into your view of things that maybe don't actually fit.

Christ told us to be perfect, just accept it; don't try to rationalize it. Man cannot be perfect, that is why we must be born again. It has nothing to do with anything 'New Age'. To me, the initial video that Rainy posted is what sounds 'New Age' to me, the idea that we have to have some sort of magical spiritual experience and that means we are born again to me doesn't mean anything. We are talking about the baptism of the Holy Ghost. Christ burns away the flesh with fire, nothing remains and we are filled with the Holy Ghost. To me, it all seems quite simple, but I think some people want to rationalize things so that their interpretation fits into themselves being one of the ones that are born again. Then we water it down and make it into something completely different.

Do you really think that after Christ comes with his fire and burns away everything of the flesh (according to my opinion, I guess for you the flesh still remains) and gives the gift of the Holy Ghost that man can still experience suffering? If you think this way, then in my opinion you are vastly underestimating the power of Christ and the Holy Ghost. Suffering can only come from the flesh, if the flesh has been burnt away by the fire of Christ, there is no flesh left. You may still get tired or physically drained but the heart and the mind can never suffer when filled with the Spirit. But then, you think that the flesh still remains after the fire of Christ, so I guess that makes sense according to your view.

Personally, I believe a lot of Christians underestimate the power of Christ and the second birth because if they took it for what it actually is, they would have to admit to themselves that they actually have not been born again and have not received the gift of the Holy Ghost. They skew it to mean that being born again happens the moment you invite Christ into your life (and in some way this is true) but this is not being born of the Spirit (although it could happen this way, it doesn't mean it will happen this way for everyone). In fact, people in this state are only on the path to salvation not at the goal. But they have faith in Christ, so in that sense they are saved; because Christ says anyone that believes in Him will be saved, but they can still stray from the path. Once we receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost and are born of the Spirit, we can no longer stray from the path. How can we stray from the path if we cannot sin?

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

I'm not saying that you have to believe my view on this Refreshed, but all that I ask is that you open your mind to the possibility that you have been underestimating what it means to be born again, and underestimation what receiving the baptism of the Holy Ghost entails (and I don't mean gifts of the Spirit). We all have to guidance of the Holy Ghost and can feel it to some extant but can you open your mind to a what if? What if the Holy Ghost can remove all of your suffering even in this life, without waiting for death? What if right now you have not been born of the Spirit yet, but have only been feeling the hintings of the Holy Spirit? I'm not saying just to you but to anyone that considers themselves saved, and again I'm not saying that you are not saved because anyone that has faith in Christ and endures to the end is saved.

Anyway, it's getting late. Thanks for the debate; it was a great scripture study for me to look into these things more. Have a good night.