Re: YOU MUST BE BORN-AGAIN To Enter Into Heaven

Hey Rainy, I hear you, I really do. Following the words of the Bible as opposed to those that claim divine revelation is the best way to go, but as we know many parts of the Bible can be interpreted in different ways. And it is all about the Spirit in which the words are read and received. I hear many Christians that read the words of the Bible with only knowledge of the flesh and in their mouths the words are dead and hold no power.

I'm not sure which part of my post, to which you want me to give scriptural references.

You posted the video so I'm guessing that means you agree with what he is saying in the video. His main point in the video seems to be that being born of the Spirit means having a spiritual experience and that is how you are born again, do you agree with this? Because I certainly do not.

Scriptures that support the baptism of the Holy Ghost as being born again:

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (just receiving the sacrifice of Christ does not make us stop sinning we still need to constantly repent, but once you receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost there can be no more sin because your actions are no longer yours but His)

Titus 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Savior toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which He shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

John 3:5 Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God

In John 3:5 do we agree that the Spirit is referring to the Holy Ghost? Certainly there is no other Spirit, correct? Therefore, we must be born of the Holy Ghost to enter the kingdom of God.

Romans 8

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Being born of the Spirit is as powerful of an experience as Jesus Christ being resurrected from the dead. It is not just having a strong spiritual experience where your heart is changed and you feel happy. You actually die and are raised up again in the Spirit.

I think it is pretty obvious that how we are born again is of the Spirit, which is the Holy Ghost (unless you know of another Spirit). So how do we receive the Holy Ghost, how do we receive the regeneration and rebirth of the Holy Ghost? Are there any scriptures in the Bible that say how we can receive this? Yes there is a very clear scripture showing how we will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit that will regenerate us to our second birth:

Matthew 3:11

I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: (John the baptist speaking of course) but he that cometh after me is mighteir than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Of course we know that he is referring to Jesus who will give the baptism of the Holy Ghost. This is the only scripture in the Bible that says exactly how we will receive the gift of the Holy Ghost that will regenerate us into the second birth.

Now look at the scriptures from 1 Titus and Matthew 3:11 next to each other:

But according to His mercy He saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior.

Now, how do we receive this gift?

He that cometh after me (Jesus) shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire.

John 20:22 And when (Jesus) had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

Again, this is one of the few scriptures I know of that shows specifically how Christ grants the regenerating power of the Holy Ghost, which gives us the second birth that we read about in so many other scriptures. We agree that this scripture is referring to the baptism of the Holy Ghost, right? To be born of the Spirit, we must receive the Spirit from somewhere. This scripture shows specifically from whom and how we can receive the Holy Ghost. Rainy or Refreshed, can you show me any other scripture that shows specifically how people receive the regenerating Holy Ghost (which is the Spirit by which we are born again)?

The reason I believe this way is that when I read some of these scriptures, it spoke in a certain way to my heart, that I understood them, and I can't explain it rationally. But if I think about it logically according to scriptures, this is how my logic works:

1. We must be born again to enter the Kingdom of God.

2. To be born again means to be born of the Spirit.

3. To be born of the Spirit means to receive the regeneration of the Holy Ghost by the grace of Jesus Christ.

4. The regeneration of the Holy Ghost is given by Jesus Christ through the second baptism of the Holy Ghost.

If you disagree with my logic on this, then tell me exactly which point we disagree on.

As I said in my previous post, there is also a more generic interpretation to being born again, which I think also has some merit. And that interpretation is to follow the steps to salvation as outlined by the teachings of Christ. These include faith in Christ, repentance of our sins and our sinful state of existence, receiving the grace of Christ into our hearts and enduring to the end. I think this is what most Christians believe as being born again, in particular receiving the grace of Christ into our lives. I don't think this is completely incorrect, just partially incorrect. When we follow the steps to salvation, we are on the path to salvation, not actually saved. What most Christians refer to as being saved, I refer to as being on the path to salvation. But if you want to talk about being born of the Spirit, then you are talking about something very specific. It is not just the goodness in our hearts that are willing and humble enough to accept the grace of Christ, and it is also not some generic spiritual experience, it can only be the baptism of the Holy Ghost, as that is the only scripture that shows how we receive the Holy Ghost.

The problem with my interpretation is that it means basically almost all Christians will not be saved because I think very few of us will actually receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost during the time of our physical lives. But the Bible says in countless other places that if we have faith in Christ and endure to the end we will be saved, and I do believe this is true. So how do I resolve these two issues? That all who have faith in Christ and endure to the end will be saved, and also only those that have received the gift of the second baptism of the Holy Ghost will be saved. Maybe when we come and stand before Christ after our death, if we haven't received the gift of the Holy Ghost, he will give us the second baptism of the Holy Ghost at that time. It's not Biblical I know and I'm not saying this is what happens. I do believe that all those who have faith in Christ that endure to the end will be saved, whether or not they have received the gift of the Holy Ghost, regardless if they have had some 'magical' spiritual experience, and it doesn't matter if they understood every truth from the Bible. All Christians that follow the steps to salvation, as laid out by Jesus Christ in the Bible will be saved. Fortunately, aside from all the things we get wrong, the salvation message as it is taught today, is completely correct (by the grace of God). But when people start telling people they must have some sort of spiritual experience to be saved in a generic way that means nothing, that can actually lead people off the path. We can all feel a bit of the guidance of the Holy Spirit, but if we start thinking to ourselves that we have faith in God, why is He not giving me a spiritual experience to confirm my faith? That kind of thinking can lead people off the path. Just the fact that God gave someone the grace to have the humility and the discernment to receive the Gospel message or Christ, that is already a great spiritual gift. If by the grace of God, we feel some joy in our hearts and guidance of the Holy Spirit, that is a true blessing, but what if we are not instantly transformed to a joyful person once we accept Christ in our hearts, should we just judge that the message wasn't good and true because it didn't instantly transform our lives and we didn't have this great spiritual experience? Sometimes people accept Christ's message with great joy but then bad things happen and they lose some of that feeling and stray from the path, because they were too connected to the feeling of joy and not Christ himself. We must all be steadfast in Christ, through all suffering and misery, through everything in our path and always knowing that His grace is with us, regardless of the spiritual experiences we have (or lack of spiritual experiences that we have).

There is another danger with misinterpreting the scripture from John 3:5. If we think that being born of the Spirit, is just accepting Christ the grace of Christ into our heart, or having a spiritual experience to confirm our faith. Then we believe that we are done we are saved, when in fact, we have not yet received the baptism of the Holy Ghost, which is our actual rebirth. If and when those of us who are lucky enough to receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost into our lives, that is when we can really say, we are done, we are saved. If we think that we are saved before that time, that is very dangerous because that could cause us to leave our guard down, when in fact we must always have our guard up.

My view on life, which is based on scripture and my own life experience, is that life is a test. Will we accept or reject Christ into our lives? If we accept Christ, will we have faith throughout whatever trials we need to have, or will we fall away because the path was too difficult (and maybe we didn't have the right spiritual experiences we were expecting)? We must endure to the end, which in my opinion means, either until death or until we receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost. For those who are blessed enough to receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost while in this life, they have already endured to the end. Once you have received the gift of the Holy Ghost, you can no longer sin (1 John 3:9). Until that time, you are neither sinless, nor saved, but through the grace of Christ you will be saved if you endure to the end.

As Christians, we need to follow the teachings of Christ and always be vigilant. We should never be comfortable in our salvation but must watch our thoughts and actions all the time and keep our faith and hearts centered on Christ, otherwise we can be led astray.

Now Rainy and others, I have given my thoughts on what it means to be born again. What do you think it means to be born again? Please be specific. Yes we know it means to be born of the Spirit, but what does that mean?