Re: Oxygen Info ???

NO! Let's argue more!

"Since there is no Science or any long term history of medical use in humans and animals (like ozone and peroxide), all I or you can make are generalizations!"

You're saying that there's no Science behind it, and that I don't have any. You don't know that -- it's that you've never seen any science, so you assume (or strongly, skeptically suspect) that it doesn't exist, and I, who am looking for the original research, have not offered what I do have for it. Let me point you down the research road I'm following.

According to its supporters, the use of D2SO4 is quite advanced scientifically, and they bandy about the name "Everett Storey" as its inventor. Check it out via your favorite search engine. They even cite a "Deuterium Freedom Act of 1985", which I'm going to look up in the library this weekend, because that should be the easiest thing to prove or disprove, but the Library of Congress doesn't go back any earlier than 1989 online with its legal stuff, so I have to go to the printed media, again. *sigh*

In any case, it's one thing to offer your information, and I'm actually quite intrigued with H2O2 (Hydrogen-Peroxid) baths as a therapy. But you're continuing to offer reasons "why not" against alternatives without actually knowing. You're even offering on-the-fly reasons against the products which are not valid. You stated:

"No, I realize that supposedly the O- isn't generated until it comes into contact with water. THIS is when the premature oxidation would occur! You mix it with water right? It's well known (with peroxide and ozone) that you shouldn't mix anything with them to avoid premature oxidation. I would assume that Hydroxygen works the same way since it's also based on the creation of O-."

There is a fundamental misunderstanding here, which I hope I'm not being too patronizing by trying to clear up. (I can be an ass, believe it or not. *wink*) Oxidation is an O+ phenomenon, not an O- phenomenon. Oxidation, chemically, is the process of stealing electrons from something else. ("A reaction in which the atoms in an element lose electrons.") Positively charged ions steal electrons from other atoms or molecules, even (and especially) neutral ones. When electrons are stolen from a neutral molecule or atom, that molecule or atom becomes positively charged, and then it continues the cycle of trying to return to a neutral, non-charged state. The molecule could even be destroyed/damaged in the process (DNA is notorious for this), so that even when it fills the void made by losing the electron (by stealing something else's electron), its structure is different, so that it's not really the same substance any more.

O-, on the other hand, has an extra electron to donate to such a poor electron-starved ion, so it's actually anti-oxidant in character. The O- ion doesn't -- can't -- oxidize anything. It anti-oxidizes. It could be oxidized (by O+, for example), but it will never oxidize anything. So to suggest in any way that O- is somehow harmful to the Hydroxygen Plus formula because it's going to "prematurely oxidize" the other materials in the formula, such as the amino acids, enzymes, or trace minerals, is completely false. You could mix O- into other stuff all day and it will not steal an electron -- oxidize something else -- at all. Not once. It can't. It has an extra electron that it would like to give up, but neutral substances don't ordinarily want to accept it (they don't need it!), so the O- ion remains in solution, waiting for a mate.

So... the danger that you just thought up, right on the spot, isn't a danger at all. And this is my basic objection... you keep inventing reasons why the product "might, possibly, could maybe, hypothetically, might, maybe, possibly probably, oughtta coulda sorta" be inferior, a waste of money, or dangerous. It's behaving very much like the medical establishment all over again. "Well, if Liver Flushes worked, we'd all be doing them!" "Well, if this D2SO4-based therapy were any good, we'd have all heard about it by now, and there'd be tons of research right at my fingertips that I could pull out and cite!"

That's not true, either, and this web site stands as blatant evidence of that. Heck, even the therapies you advance suffer from the same kind of bias from the establishment.

=-John-=
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