Oxygen Info ??? 
#163375
21 y
3,781
FROM: gordy
DATE: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 19:48:02 -0000
SUBJECT: Oxygen Info ???
Hi Folks,
I am presently seeking Accurate info on how to Inexpensively get as much Oxygen as possible into the body. I'm working on my son, age 7, with Osteosarcoma. I've read many times that NO Cancer can live in a sustained Alkaline Ph, which has alot to do with Oxygen. Since cancer does Not like an oxygenated enviroment, it seems logical to create one, and sustain that as well. I think I've got the Ph down, but definately need help on the Oxy part. Thanks so much for all who respond. Love and Healing to you all.
Gordy
More
- Re: Oxygen Info ??? John Cullison
21 y
3,808
This is a reply to # 443,438Hi, Gordy!
I've never had to fight cancer, so take whatever I say here with a grain of salt. I can't promise that anything I'm about to say will definitely help with your case. You can look these items up with your favorite search engine and decide for yourself. There are probably others.
Oxygen products like Global Healthtrax's Hydroxygen Plus and Lumina's CellFood are two good oxygenators. I am very impressed with these products. Both are claimed to split water molecules in the body into oxygen and hydrogen. Fear not -- it's only about 1 in 100,000 molecules or so that get split apart, but this still provides a lot of benefit -- or so it has for me.
Homozon is another product, very different from the other two, and it also has competitive products. They're based on magnesium oxide (or some other mineral with oxygen attached) and are activated with an acidic beverage a few minutes after consuming (in most cases). These work well for making the intestines an oxygen-rich environment. I don't know how well the oxygen penetrates into the rest of the body.
You might look into ozone therapy. In ozone therapy, blood is removed from the body, infused with ozone, and re-introduced into the body.
I recently read a study on the benefits of below-sea-level therapy for various problems -- because the lower the altitude, the greater the oxygen content in the air. You might consider looking into ways to increase the oxygen content of your home's air. Unfortunately, the two methods I can think of both have risks associated with them, so I'll only briefly mention them, and you can look them up yourself. The first is water electrolysis. (You need to find a safe way to dispose of the large volume of hydrogen created!) The other is using pre-made oxygen tanks (like those used in hospitals and clinics). Having a large supply of oxygen in one's home has risks, and releasing too much oxygen could pose an explosion hazard.
As you can see, I'm getting more and more complicated with each paragraph, so I think I'll end off here. *grin*
Good luck!
=-John-=
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- Re: Oxygen Info ??? The23rdMan
21 y
3,553
This is a reply to # 443,439Another option with the ozone therapy is to get hold of an Ozonator from Sota instruments( a google search will find them). This little machine will ozonate an 8oz glass of water in minutes.
- Re: Oxygen Info ??? The23rdMan
21 y
3,553
- Re: Oxygen Info ??? Gloria Franchi
21 y
3,814
This is a reply to # 443,438Hi Gordy,
My son Patrick has a brain stem glioma. I am purchasing a water oxygenator from Sota Industries in B.C. Sprouting with sunflower, buckwheat and wheatgrass sprouts also feed the body oxygen. Excercise is also a key.
I have Patrick on a protocol with the Cancer Research Group in Ottawa, Bill O'Neal is a fantastic doctor who believes in his alternative protocol.
God Bless- Re: Oxygen Info ??? Lapis
21 y
3,629
This is a reply to # 443,445Gloria, please keep us up to date on your son's progress. Patrick is very lucky to have a mother whose mind is open to all possibilities. Have you considered also a magnetic pulser from SOTA? This device saved my friend's eye from being removed from cancer. He also regained full function in the very same eye from using this device. Just a thought.
All the best.- Re: Oxygen Info ??? Gloria Franchi
21 y
3,877
This is a reply to # 443,448Dear Lapis
I am so thrilled to hear about the magnetic pulser. My sons school had a fund raiser for him and I have ordered the pulser.
I am afraid because he is on a medication that stops the blood flow to the tumor. If the magnetic pulser increases blood flow and oxygenation in the tissues, could it increase his tumor growth?
One doctors response is that this will resonate malignant tumors and actually kill them.
I am going to learn more before I use it, however, if you have more info, pls send.
Gloria
- Re: Oxygen Info ??? Gloria Franchi
21 y
3,877
- Re: Oxygen Info ??? Lapis
21 y
3,629
- Re: Oxygen Info ??? Tim
21 y
3,951
This is a reply to # 443,438Don't bother with the oxygen products they're WAY overpriced. Ozone therapy is MUCH more effective, but very expensive. The least expensive/most effective therapy is hydrogen peroxide. You can go to a doctor for IV peroxide (but it's very expensive).
The easist way is to do it at home! Absorbing it through the skin is just as effective as the IV. There is also a protocol for drinking it, and while this is much more effective for digetive system and liver disorders, it's not as effective for problems elsewhere in the body.
Use 3% drugstore hydrogen peroxide in a hot bath. Use 1 to 8 pints. Start with 1 pint and work up to 8. This is equivalent to a 1/2 quart to 4 quarts. Stay in the bath for at least 20 minutes (the longer the better). Make sure the water stays hot, and the body temperature rises to between 100F to 103F (induced fever). Do them at least once or more a day. It will cause a clear-headed feeling or perhaps dizziness. If it causes extreme dizziness you should cut back a little bit. It may cause a detox or "cleansing" reaction in some people (also called the Jarisch-Herxheimer reaction): http://lassesen.com/cfids/herxheimer.htm You can also get a more concentrated 35% peroxide online or from a local health food store, or perhaps from a pool supply store.
Search the internet for more info on hydrogen peroxide and ozone therapy - there are also good books available on the subject. A good website for more info is: http://www.oxytherapy.com
I've had very good results with my CFS/MCS (chronic fatigue syndrome and multiple chemical sensitivities) and food allergies by using this therapy. I've already cured my MCS, and my Chronic-Fatigue-Syndrome is much better. I've heard of people overcoming many other chronic diseases (including cancer) with this therapy. People have reported their skin cancer actually falling off after applyling peroxide directly to the skin cancer. Good luck!
Tim- Some Quotes: Tim
21 y
4,794
RN
This is a reply to # 443,450"Since Warburg's discovery, this difference in respiration has remained the most fundamental (and some say, only) physiological difference consistently found between normal and cancer cells. Using cell culture studies, I decided to examine the differential responses of normal and cancer cells to changes in the oxygen environment. The results that I found were rather remarkable. I found that high 02 tensions were lethal to cancer tissue, 95 percent being very toxic, where as in general, normal tissues were not harmed by high oxygen tensions. Indeed, some normal tissues were found to require high 02 tensions. It does seem to demonstrate the possibility that if the 02 tensions in cancer tissues can be elevated, then the cancer tissue may be able to be killed selectively, as it seems that the cancer cells are incapable of handling a high 02 environment." - J.B. Kizer:Biochemist/Physicist, Gungnir Research, Portsmith, OH.
“A nurse who works in medical research said to me, ‘It's so simple. I don't know why I never thought of it. When we're working with cell cultures in the lab, if we want cells to mutate, we turn down the oxygen. To stop them, we turn the oxygen back up.’” -Ed McCabe, author of O2xygen Therapies - A New Way of Approaching Disease.
"Lack of cellular oxygen supply is probably the most common cause of cell injury and may also be the ultimate mechanism of damage." -Robbins and Cotran (W.B. Saunders) Pathologic Basis of Disease.
"Cancer, above all other diseases, has countless secondary causes, but there is only one prime cause. The prime cause of cancer is the replacement of the normal oxygen respiration of body cells by an anaerobic cell respiration." -- Dr. Otto Warburg, Nobel Laureate.
"Since oxygen, ozone and hydrogen peroxide act as oxidants in a laboratory setting, therapies employing those agents are generally deemed oxidative therapies.191-193 Until recently, the author accepted that view uncritically. However, it is clear from studies presented in this article that this is a gross error. In reality, such therapies in the context of the ORPEC state are powerful oxygenative and antioxidant therapies. The reason for that widespread misconception is the failure to clearly understand the complex biologic consequences of adding oxygen, ozone, and hydrogen peroxide to severely impaired enzymatic and cellular ecosystems in patients with accelerated oxidative injury. An analogy of a burst of thunderstorm may be used to explain the possible mechanism action of ozone. The still air in a city on a hot, humid summer afternoon is thick with stagnant smog. The traffic on city streets is snarled. Tree leaves are dry and limp. Many persons are distressed by air pollution. Suddenly, dark clouds loom large and bring a heavy thunderstorm. Strong winds push out the polluted air. Tree leaves are bombarded by heavy rains. The healthy and robust leaves of trees withstand the storm well, while older and weakened leaves are severely damaged. Many withering leaves on tree brances are blown away. After the thunderstorm subsides, the air is clean and crisp. The trees looked washed, their leaves fresh and shiny. Bursts of intravenously injected ozone and hydrogen peroxide affect the blood elements the same way. The membranes of healthy erythrocytes withstand the oxidative stress of ozone and hydrogen peroxide well, recovering their normal morphology after initial membrane deformities. The senescent cells, by contrast, shrink and undergo lysis. How may the observed overall invivo antioxidant effects of ozone, a powerful invitro oxidant, be explained? Ozone has well established effects of improving tissue perfusion and cellular oxygenation.67 Just as the duality of oxygen allows it to be a molecular Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, reactive oxidant species also play dual roles. Not only do they inflict oxidative damage to enzymes, induce mutations, and damage cell membranes, they also serve many useful functions such as modulation of cellular redox dynamics, activation of gene transcription, signal transduction, and apoptosis.93-95 It seems that ozone evokes an upregulatory response from cell membrane-associated antioxidant enzyme systems just as all oxidants do from all biologic antioxidant systems. Though, direct quantitative data for those effects are not yet forthcoming. One may also, with good reason, speculate that ozone elicits similar responses from other matrix- and cell organelle-related antioxidant systems. There is yet an other important mechanism by which ozone protects patients with chronic illnesses from accelerated oxidative stress. Viruses, bacteria, fungi, PLFs and parasite inflict cellular injury by causing oxidative stress. Ozone also is a well established antiviral, antibacterial, and antifungal agent.58-63. Ozone through its powerful antimicrobial effects reduces the overall oxidative stress on persons with chronic viral, bacterial, fungal and PLF overgrowth syndromes. Thus, the ORPEC hypothesis carries strong explanatory power for the empirically observed biologic antioxidant effects of ozone. The biologic antioxidant effects of hydrogen peroxide, a potent oxidizer like ozone, are mediated by all the mechanisms cited for ozone in the preceding section. The clinical benefits of hydrogen peroxide infusions observed at the Institute in patients with fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome are the subject of a separate report.72" Majid Ali, M.D. Journal of Integrative Medicine 1998;2:4-55.
- Re: Oxygen Info ??? John Cullison
21 y
3,820
This is a reply to # 443,450I find this quote rather amusing:
"Don't bother with the oxygen products they're WAY overpriced. Ozone therapy is MUCH more effective, but very expensive. The least expensive/most effective therapy is hydrogen peroxide. You can go to a doctor for IV peroxide (but it's very expensive)."
And yet you go on to quote Ed McCabe in your quotes post (second quote), who has specifically endorsed oxygen supplement products such as Hydroxygen Plus!
$29.95 retail for a one-month supply of Hydroxygen Plus -- about $1.00 per day -- isn't what I consider expensive (especially when compared against ozone therapy). I can buy Lumina Health's Cell Food for $22.45 plus tax at Seattle Super Supplements, making it less than $1.00 per day. Now, consider your recommended technique -- hydrogen peroxide baths. How much do you suppose one to eight pints of hydroxgen peroxide costs? One pint runs $1.09 retail (plus tax). Eight pints, therefore, would be over $9.00 (including tax). Multiply that by thirty days per month, and we're talking $270.00 a month in hydrogen peroxide baths.
I don't dispute the utility of your method at all -- it sounds very appropriate for some cancers. My debate here is simply your insinuation that oxygen supplements are expensive. They're actually (considerably) less expensive on a daily basis than your proposed technique for tissue oxygenation.
=-John-=
- Re: Oxygen Info ??? Tim
21 y
3,836
This is a reply to # 443,453Ed McCabe "Mr. Oxygen" actually supports ALL the oxygen therapies, including peroxide and ozone. He happens to endorse Hydroxygen Plus (for obvious financial reasons) He probably gets a piece of the action! But otherwise, he's mostly known for reccomending ozone and peroxide therapy: Here's more info on Ed McCabe: http://www.oxytherapy.com/edmccabe/index.html
As far as the costs, you're right. However...
For oral oxygen products: Hydroxygen Plus is basically just the equivalent of dilluted peroxide. The equivalent amount of peroxide would only cost pennies for a month's supply of oral peroxide. So, oral peroxide is actually much cheaper than Hydroxygen Plus! However, oral peroxide (or liquid oxygen products) are nowhere near as effective as skin absorbtion or IV, and so you need to take much larger doses (which have been known to potentially cause digestive tract and liver and kidney problems at these high doses). At low doses they are not very effective in the blood stream, especially for severe illnesses. Most of the peroxide is intercepted by food residue and bacteria in the digestive tract and by the liver and kidneys. This is great if this is your problem area, but not so good if you want to treat areas in other parts of your body. To get it into your bloodstream in therapeutic amounts, it's best to bypass the digestive system (the same way the sublingual and skin patch medications work). This bypasses the liver and kidneys (which will filter out the peroxide before enough of it gets into your bloodstream). High doses of oral peroxide DOES work, but it isn't as effecient or effective (or safe) as direct absorbtion or IV. The effective skin absorbtion or IV dose is about 0.037% while the effective oral dose is much larger - about 0.15%. As I said before, this large oral dose can be harmful to your digestive system (and often causes nausea).
For peroxide baths: Yes, it is expensive. Of course a bath in Hydroxygen Plus would be EVEN MORE EXPENSIVE!!! RIGHT??? The reason it is so expensive is that only a small amount of it is actually absorbed. Most of it gets washed down the drain when the bath is over. Even so, it is STILL much more safe and effective than the oral peroxide at getting it into your blood. But it isn't cheap. However... I didn't mention this before, but if you're looking for not only the easiest and most effective, but ALSO the cheapest, at the same time, then actually applying the dilluted peroxide directly to your skin is the way to go. It isn't very convenient however, because you have to continuously apply it as it's absorbed, over and over. It's just as effective as the bath, but you don't waste as much.
Here's my reccomendation: Apply the peroxide at the same dillution that is used for the bathtub (0.037%). An easy way to do this is to follow my advice for the peroxide bath (1 to 8 pints) per tub. However, before you get in, fill up a bunch of containers with some of the water. In the future, you can use this water to apply directly to the skin. It will be much cheaper this way.
I personally use 3-6 drops of 35% peroxide in a cup of water to apply to my skin (equals about 0.037%, which is the same dose used for intravenous injection). I'm not sure how to convert this if you're using 3% however. You can find 35% online or an local health food stores or pool supply stores. This treatment only costs pennies a day, and yet it is still EXTREMELY effective - MUCH more effective than oral peroxide or Hydroxygen Plus. (I found the 8 pints of peroxide in bathtub to be too expesive and wasteful too;)
No matter which method you choose, it's still much more effective if you do it while you have an elevated body temperature (from being in a hot bath or sauna), as you'll be able to stand a much higher dose (and it will reduce your cleansing reaction symptoms.) This is especially true with chronic immune or infectious illnesses. The sicker you are, the less you'll be able to tolerate the effects of the peroxide. Dillute it enough so that it's not too strong. The proper dillution varies from person to person. Healthy people can stand much higher concentrations than very ill people. Be careful, because it's easy to overdo it! If it's too strong, cut back the dillution! The highest dose reccomended is 8 pints in a tub, or 6 drops of 35% in a cup of water, applied slowly to the skin. You should ALWAYS start at a lower dose and work your way up, to be on the safe side (especially if you have a chronic infectious illness).
Tim
- Re: Oxygen Info ??? John Cullison
21 y
3,681
This is a reply to # 443,458So Ed McCabe's just a sell-out, right? "For obvious financial reasons." *sigh* "He probably gets a piece of the action." You just assume this without any checking whatsoever, right.
It's like you think it's wrong for someone to make money on something, and assume that anyone who endorses a product must have a hidden agenda or financial gain. Does Ed McCabe get financial benefit from endorsing H2O2 (Hydrogen-Peroxid) or O3 - Ozone therapies? He must get a piece of that action, too, after all, he's endorsing them!
Do you own stock in hydrogen peroxide manufacturers?
But let's ignore this for a moment. Let's consider your claims:
"Hydroxygen Plus is basically just the equivalent of dilluted peroxide."
Oh? Could you provide a reference for me on this? I'm still trying to find the earlier research on D2SO4, but hey, if you've got it handy, shoot me a link, or e-mail me so I can work out paying you for copies of this research plus shipping. I'm eager to see it. I'm particularly interested in seeing how well this is picked up in the bloodstream, and especially in how D2SO4 breaks apart the water molecule.
Beyond that, both Cell Food and Hydroxygen Plus list much more on the label, including trace elements/minerals, enzymes, and amino acids. It's more than just the D2SO4 in the product.
"I personally use 3-6 drops of 35% peroxide in a cup of water to apply to my skin (equals about 0.037%, which is the same dose used for intravenous injection). I'm not sure how to convert this if you're using 3% however. You can find 35% online or an local health food stores or pool supply stores. This treatment only costs pennies a day, and yet it is still EXTREMELY effective - MUCH more effective than oral peroxide or Hydroxygen Plus. (I found the 8 pints of peroxide in bathtub to be too expesive and wasteful too;)"
OK, so on what basis are you making this claim that your technique is better? What benefits have you personally achieved from this topical application of hydrogen peroxide? Tell me your story.
And how long do you keep this applied to your skin? Until it dries? A whole cup of treated water? When I consider downing a cup of water treated with several drops of Cell Food versus sitting with my arms soaking in this solution for half an hour... or waiting for it to dry and re-applying until the cup is gone... or... Seems awfully complicated. The tradeoff of time versus money... My time is worth more to me than sitting around for this, but then I'm not suffering from cancer. So please, enlighten me! If there's a cheaper way, I'm all for it.
=-John-=
- Re: Oxygen Info ??? Tim
21 y
3,737
This is a reply to # 443,464I'm not saying Ed's a sell out! I'm not saying that Hydroxygen doesn't work! Perhaps it does work, I don't know! However, without any Science to back it up, I'm skeptical.
However, the original therapies were hydrogen peroxide and ozone. These have the most Science behind them (dating back decades from all over the world.) And many people and doctors can attest to their effectiveness.
These days, doing peroxide therapy at home gets very little promotion since it's so cheap that no companies can make any money off it (If you only do oral or topical application, a $10-$20 bottle of 35% peroxide will last you years and years. Although if you use it in the bathtub you'll use it up a lot faster.) There are MANY companies that have started producing "liquid oxygen" products in the last few years, and most have very little Science to back up their claims. I just feel that people are getting ripped off. That's all. You can also go to a doctor and get ozone or peroxide therapy and get charged ten's of thousands of dollars. That's even more of a rip off (but at least there's science behind it.)
As far as the vitamins, minerals, enzymes, amino acids, etc, I doubt the Hydroxygen Plus has a whole lot of these. Does it tell you how much of these it has per drop? Probably very little compared to food or real vitamin/mineral supplements. Also keep in mind that amino acids are just another name for protein. This is just a marketing ploy, since you can find protein in much larger amounts in foods. Same thing for the other nutrients. In fact, these nutrients could perhaps potentially react with the O- causing a decrease in effectiveness.
As far as how it has helped me personally, I've already posted about this. For more testimonials try this page: http://www.oxytherapy.com/testimonials/index.html
If you have only minor health complaints, then feel free to experiment with whatever products you want. But for people with severe illness, I think that sticking with the tried and true oxidative therapies (ozone and peroxide) is best. Please note that the title of this forum indicates that it is primarily for the discussion of ozone, peroxide (H2O2), hyperbaric oxygen therapy, and homozone. These are the primary therapies with the hard science to back them up...
Tim- Re: Oxygen Info ??? John Cullison
21 y
3,750
This is a reply to # 443,467Ummm... Tim, Dude. I suggested creating this forum a few days ago, as you can see in this post here, so please don't try to tell me what it's for and what it's not for, OK? Just because the forum creator "expanded" on my recommendation to include all the other things in the title doesn't in any way invalidate the intent of my desire for this forum, which is to discuss ALL oxygen therapies.
If you want to suggest (any further) that D2SO4 products are not oxygen therapy, then I suggest you take it up with Ed McCabe, OK? (Oh, wait, he's not a sell-out, he's just in it for the money, right? He's just another snake oil salesman, but you're happy to quote him when it suits your purpose...? What is your purpose, anyway?)
"There are MANY companies that have started producing 'liquid oxygen' products in the last few years, and most have very little Science to back up their claims."
Yes, and I've seen a web site which "debunks" them by making the same kinds of generalizations which you repeat here. In fact, reading your posts is virtually identical to reading that web site...
I have no problems with H2O2 (Hydrogen-Peroxid) and O3 - Ozone as therapies. I'd have to be some flavor of insane to object or to try to dissuade someone from pursuing them. That's not my point at all. But you are too eager to dismiss the D2SO4-based products with your generalizations, which have no "hard science" to back them up. What's this about? You reject things due to "lack of science", yet you offer criticism which is equally devoid of Science to back it up. You continue to find ways to suggest that there might be some fault with the product, all of which you've managed to come up with on-the-fly, not based on hard science. This is the same kind of bias and "know-best" attitude which actively impedes progress. For example:
"In fact, these nutrients could perhaps potentially react with the O- causing a decrease in effectiveness."
Yeah, except that you are still thinking that they've put O- in the product. Does O- in our bodies negatively affect the action of enzymes and amino acids and trace minerals? Not at all... This is something you just thought up, without any actual reason to think it up, other than to try to find a flaw in the product. Why?
You think people are being ripped off by oxygen products. There is probably some truth to your assertion. But I've actually tried these products, so I know they have merit. You haven't tried them at all, and you lack any scientific data to suggest that they don't work, yet you feel qualified to pass judgment on them or try to dissuade people away from them. Why?
Bonus points if you can respond without making more generalizations about how this product could be bad for you or a waste of money.
=-John-=
- Re: Oxygen Info ??? Tim
21 y
3,847
This is a reply to # 443,468My original post was simply a response to Gordy's message:
"I am presently seeking Accurate info on how to Inexpensively get as much Oxygen as possible into the body. I'm working on my son, age 7, with Osteosarcoma. I've read many times that NO Cancer can live in a sustained Alkaline Ph, which has alot to do with Oxygen. Since cancer does Not like an oxygenated enviroment, it seems logical to create one, and sustain that as well. I think I've got the Ph down, but definately need help on the Oxy part. Thanks so much for all who respond. Love and Healing to you all."
-----
I simply feel that hydrogen peroxide (topical, oral, and in baths, etc) is the cheapest and most effective method that can also be backed up by science. This is simply my opinion, and the opinion of many others, based on the science. Ozone is also very effective but much more expensive.
I don't know much of anything about Hydroxygen (D2SO4), other than what Ed McCabe has to say about it in the Hydroxygen advertisement. As you've said, neither do you. Maybe it does work! But I would need to see some evidence of it first. I believe you when you say that it works. Perhaps it DOES work better than peroxide, but then again, perhaps it's less effective for more money! This has been shown to be the case for many of the other liquid oxygen products. Hydrogen Peroxide therapy can deliver large amounts of singlet oxygen directly into the bloodstrem for pennies. This is proven. Where is the proof that Hydroxygen can do this? If you can show me proof of this, I'll shut up.
Ed McCabe is widely respected in oxidative therapy circles. He is a strong believer in ozone and peroxide. Now it looks like he is also supporting the use of D2SO4. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that it works. But how does it compare to peroxide in terms of cost effectiveness? I've tried Cell Food, and I can tell you that peroxide is FAR more potent for a lot less money. Is Cell Food also D2SO4? Maybe it's not, I don't know.
I'm not trying to tell you what should or should not be discussed here. Obviously I'm fine discussing this topic. I have no problems with it! I was just pointing out that ozone, peroxide, etc are the STANDARD for oxidative therapy, and any other treatment needs to be compared to them, not the other way around. The burden of proof rests with the new, unproven (and often somewhat expensive)oxygen products.
You say I'm making "generalizations" in trying to debunk D2SO4. Well, for one thing, I'm not trying to debunk it. If it does, in fact, release singlet oxygen, then in theory it should work. Since there is no Science or any long term history of medical use in humans and animals (like ozone and peroxide), all I or you can make are generalizations! Show me studies of how it compares to ozone or peroxide if you desire this debate to be more substantial! My criticism is only directed toward D2SO4 because of the apparant lack of extensive scientific studies behind it. My point is that because there is no way to compare it to the traditional therapies, there is no way to determine cost effectiveness.
All I've been trying to say is that the easiest, most effective, most cost effective treatment that is ALSO backed up by Science and success in treating hundreds of thousands of people around the world is hydrogen peroxide therapy followed by ozone therapy. With D2SO4 there are simply too many unanswered questions in my opinion. I know that other oxygen products have been shown to not be as effective as peroxide and ozone, so I'm skeptical about D2SO4 as well. If you can show me some evidence that it's more effective than peroxide (that isn't from their advertisements) then I may be more receptive to it. However, for now, I think that anyone with a serious illness should stick with the tried and true treatments that have been shown to work at the proper doses.
You Said: "Yeah, except that you are still thinking that they've put O- in the product."
No, I realize that supposedly the O- isn't generated until it comes into contact with water. THIS is when the premature oxidation would occur! You mix it with water right? It's well known (with peroxide and ozone) that you shouldn't mix anything with them to avoid premature oxidation. I would assume that Hydroxygen works the same way since it's also based on the creation of O-.
One more question, does Hydroxygen have water listed as one of the ingredients? If so, why wouldn't it have already reacted in the bottle (before you drink it). The singlet oxygen MUST be created in the blood stream (or in close proximity to germs, etc) to have any affect. Once created, the singlet oxygen rapidly loses effectiveness since they'll combine together to create O2, unless they come into contact with a germ, diseased cell, etc first.
Let's stop arguing about this. Go out and get some 35% peroxide and dillute it to the proper dosage. Let me know how it compares to the Hydroxygen.
Tim
- Re: Oxygen Info ??? John Cullison
21 y
3,772
This is a reply to # 443,470NO! Let's argue more!
"Since there is no Science or any long term history of medical use in humans and animals (like ozone and peroxide), all I or you can make are generalizations!"
You're saying that there's no Science behind it, and that I don't have any. You don't know that -- it's that you've never seen any science, so you assume (or strongly, skeptically suspect) that it doesn't exist, and I, who am looking for the original research, have not offered what I do have for it. Let me point you down the research road I'm following.
According to its supporters, the use of D2SO4 is quite advanced scientifically, and they bandy about the name "Everett Storey" as its inventor. Check it out via your favorite search engine. They even cite a "Deuterium Freedom Act of 1985", which I'm going to look up in the library this weekend, because that should be the easiest thing to prove or disprove, but the Library of Congress doesn't go back any earlier than 1989 online with its legal stuff, so I have to go to the printed media, again. *sigh*
In any case, it's one thing to offer your information, and I'm actually quite intrigued with H2O2 (Hydrogen-Peroxid) baths as a therapy. But you're continuing to offer reasons "why not" against alternatives without actually knowing. You're even offering on-the-fly reasons against the products which are not valid. You stated:
"No, I realize that supposedly the O- isn't generated until it comes into contact with water. THIS is when the premature oxidation would occur! You mix it with water right? It's well known (with peroxide and ozone) that you shouldn't mix anything with them to avoid premature oxidation. I would assume that Hydroxygen works the same way since it's also based on the creation of O-."
There is a fundamental misunderstanding here, which I hope I'm not being too patronizing by trying to clear up. (I can be an ass, believe it or not. *wink*) Oxidation is an O+ phenomenon, not an O- phenomenon. Oxidation, chemically, is the process of stealing electrons from something else. ("A reaction in which the atoms in an element lose electrons.") Positively charged ions steal electrons from other atoms or molecules, even (and especially) neutral ones. When electrons are stolen from a neutral molecule or atom, that molecule or atom becomes positively charged, and then it continues the cycle of trying to return to a neutral, non-charged state. The molecule could even be destroyed/damaged in the process (DNA is notorious for this), so that even when it fills the void made by losing the electron (by stealing something else's electron), its structure is different, so that it's not really the same substance any more.
O-, on the other hand, has an extra electron to donate to such a poor electron-starved ion, so it's actually anti-oxidant in character. The O- ion doesn't -- can't -- oxidize anything. It anti-oxidizes. It could be oxidized (by O+, for example), but it will never oxidize anything. So to suggest in any way that O- is somehow harmful to the Hydroxygen Plus formula because it's going to "prematurely oxidize" the other materials in the formula, such as the amino acids, enzymes, or trace minerals, is completely false. You could mix O- into other stuff all day and it will not steal an electron -- oxidize something else -- at all. Not once. It can't. It has an extra electron that it would like to give up, but neutral substances don't ordinarily want to accept it (they don't need it!), so the O- ion remains in solution, waiting for a mate.
So... the danger that you just thought up, right on the spot, isn't a danger at all. And this is my basic objection... you keep inventing reasons why the product "might, possibly, could maybe, hypothetically, might, maybe, possibly probably, oughtta coulda sorta" be inferior, a waste of money, or dangerous. It's behaving very much like the medical establishment all over again. "Well, if Liver Flushes worked, we'd all be doing them!" "Well, if this D2SO4-based therapy were any good, we'd have all heard about it by now, and there'd be tons of research right at my fingertips that I could pull out and cite!"
That's not true, either, and this web site stands as blatant evidence of that. Heck, even the therapies you advance suffer from the same kind of bias from the establishment.
=-John-=
- Re: Oxygen Info ??? New Girl
21 y
3,845
This is a reply to # 443,472I am learning alot from these debates. I also like all the Oxygen Therapy websites many of you have been posting.
Who has an opinion on this brand: www.goodforyou.ca
I am glad this site was created because I am new to all this.- Re: Oxygen Info ??? Tim
21 y
3,807
This is a reply to # 443,473Stick to the original liquid oxygen product: Hydrogen Peroxide.
You can buy food grade 35% peroxide online or from your local health food store. There are protocols for oral use, topical skin application, peroxide baths, enemas, douches, etc, etc. Find one of these, and follow the protocol EXACTLY. If you have a chronic disease such as CFS, fibromyalgia, MCS, candidasis, lyme, lupus, AIDS, cancer, etc, be sure to start at a VERY low dose. Healthy people can tolerate quite high doses, while chronically ill people can't. Read up as much as you can on peroxide therapy, hyperthermia (hot baths and saunas), and cleansing reactions(herxhemier) . NOTHING will detox you faster than peroxide (or ozone therapy), so be prepared... Hyperthermia (hot baths or saunas) are essential for getting through the detox period. I've already posted quite a few links on this thread to get you started. There are also books available on the subject, often available at your local health food store.
Even if you don't have a serious chronic illness, I'd still reccomend peroxide over the liquid oxygen products, simply because it's so much more cost effective. According to the following article, $190 of the liquid oxygen product "SuperOxy" is equivalent to 10 cents of hydrogen peroxide!
http://www.oxytherapy.com/oxyfiles/oxy00349.html
Tim
- Re: Oxygen Info ??? Tim
21 y
3,807
- Re: Oxygen Info ??? Tim
21 y
3,880
This is a reply to # 443,472As I've said before, I don't know very much about D2SO4. There seems to be very little info available on the web. Meanwhile, there is plently of Science to back up peroxide and ozone: http://www.oxytherapy.com/oxyfiles/index.html
http://www.digitalnaturopath.com/treat/T216561.html
http://www.garynull.com/Documents/Arthritis/Hydrogen_Peroxide_Therapy.htm
http://www.waronaids.com/Ozone-Therapy.asp
Peroxide works on internal disease the same way it works externally on wounds. It detroys pathogens, diseased cells, and toxins, and allows the body to heal.
According to Ed McCabe:
"Instead of Hydroxygen Plus itself delivering oxygen into your body, Hydroxygen Plus doesn't have any great amount of oxygen in it, except a little bit in the chemical bonds of the product itself. Hydroxygen Plus actually causes lots of oxygen to be released over and over for hours into the body out of all the water that is already there! This action is much like the body's naturally occurring immune system creating hydrogen peroxide, H2O2, and then naturally breaking it down, as needed,into water and releasing oxygen to destroy harmful toxins and microbial invaders, H202 > H2O + 01."
So, according to Ed, it destroys harmful toxins and microbial invaders by "breaking them down". This means that, in the end, it works in the same way as hydrogen peroxide. Oxidation!
If D2SO4 works the same way as peroxide, then when it comes into contact with anything it will oxidize them. Wouldn't the "extra ingredients" added to the product possibly just get in the way? Don't you think these nutrients are actually added as more of a marketing gimick? Does the package say how much of these nutrients are actually in the product? If not, then there probably isn't much.
Once again, I'm not saying it doesn't work! I don't know! However it would have to be MUCH more effective than plain hydrogen peroxide to be worth buying, because it is so much more expensive!
You said: "Heck, even the therapies you advance suffer from the same kind of bias from the establishment."
Just because a therapy is "alternative" or "unconventional" or "suffers from bias from the establishment" DOES NOT mean the therapy is effective. FAR FROM IT. However, even if it IS effective, that doesn't mean it is as good as other therapies. Personally, I tend to put more emphasis on therapies that are not only holistic and natural (as opposed to drug and surgery-based medicine that only supress symptoms), but that are also cheap (or even free), and have large numbers of people and doctors attesting to their effectiveness, and good Science to back them up. I also insist that I understand the basics of WHY and HOW they work, and the mechanisms involved. Of course, the most important thing is that when I use them, they actually work! I believe that something should actually have a noticeable effect on my health if I'm going to bother using it. I prefer commodity type treatments without any brand names, slick marketing, or expensive treatments by physicians. When money is involved, greed and deception enters into the picture. It's true of the medical establishment, but it's also just as true with many "alternative" therapies as well.
I believe in cheap and natural treatments like: Whole foods (no processed or packaged food), hydrogen peroxide therapy, hot baths and saunas, increased water intake, herbs, liver cleanses, excercise, etc. At least with these I know that I'm not being scammed by someone trying to make a quick buck. I've been scammed several times by physicians as well as alternative medicine doctors, and supplement companies. I've gotten sick of it.
The hydrogen peroxide and hot baths have made the biggest impact on my health out of anything I've ever tried. It is a commodity item without any brand names or slick marketing behind it. It costs pennies a day. At my local drug store I can get a pint of 3% for only 50 cents. That's less than bottled water! It's typically used for cleaning out and disinfecting external wounds. However, it also has the same effect internally (cleaning out and disinfecting internal disease (However, YOU MUST DILLUTE IT before using it internally.)
As an example of how money influences things, consider the example of ozone. It works in exactly the same way as hydrogen peroxide (by oxidation), and yet there is far more research, funding, and doctors who promote and do ozone therapy. Why is this? Perhaps it's because there's more money to be made with ozone therapy? The ozone generators are expensive, the treatments are made to be unnecesarily complicated and expensive so that only a doctor can administer it, etc. Therefore, a lot more money goes into the research of ozone therapy compared to peroxide therapy. There's even a publicly traded company that's trying to get their ozone technology accepted by the FDA: http://www.medizoneint.com/ Of course ozone therapy DOES work. D2SO4 may also work, but that doesn't mean it isn't overpriced like ozone or the many other liquid oxygen products. Then again, maybe I'm wrong! The point is, we don't know!
Please read this comparison of hydrogen peroxide vs. the liquid oxygen product "SuperOxy". It's not D2SO4, but a it's a good example of how consumers can be ripped off by slick marketing: http://www.oxytherapy.com/oxyfiles/oxy00349.html
Here's a quote: "So for ten cents worth of HP I can have the equivalent of $190 worth of that other stuff. I do not consider that a matter of "pioneer spirit" but rather one of ripoff. I guess you can figure out why it is palatable. Hope I've made it plain enough."
Tim
- Re: Oxygen Info ??? InCharge
21 y
3,465
This is a reply to # 443,474"At my local drug store I can get a pint of 3% for only 50 cents. That's less than bottled water! It's typically used for cleaning out and disinfecting external wounds. However, it also has the same effect internally (cleaning out and disinfecting internal disease (However, YOU MUST DILLUTE IT before using it internally.)"
You have just left the reader thinking that the HP bought at the local drug store for 50 cents a pint can be taken internally. It should not be taken internally unless it is food grade. Also anybody buying 35% HP should use caution when diluting it by wearing latex goves. It can burn you.
Other than that, I enjoyed the debate.
- Re: Oxygen Info ??? #163317
21 y
3,472
This is a reply to # 443,478"At my local drug store I can get a pint of 3% for only 50 cents. That's less than bottled water! It's typically used for cleaning out and disinfecting external wounds. However, it also has the same effect internally (cleaning out and disinfecting internal disease (However, YOU MUST DILLUTE IT before using it internally.)"
You have just left the reader thinking that the HP bought at the local drug store for 50 cents a pint can be taken internally. It should not be taken internally unless it is food grade. Also anybody buying 35% HP should use caution when diluting it by wearing latex goves. It can burn you.
Other than that, I enjoyed the debate.
- Re: Oxygen Info ??? Tim
21 y
3,764
This is a reply to # 443,478You're right. I meant when 3% is absorbed through the skin into the bloodstream. Healthy people can usually tolerate a small amount of direct 3% absorbed through the skin without any problem (although, even for healthy people, I'd say direct 3% is too concentrated for regular or daily use), but someone who has a chronic illness should not use it anywhere near this concentration. ANYONE wanting to try using peroxide therapy should research it more fully and follow one of the established protocols.
35% food-grade peroxide (after being dilluted of course) is best since it doesn't have chemical stabilizers, but it's more difficult to find. I've actually stopped using the 3% and I now only use the 35% food-grade peroxide, even for external use. I get it from my local health food store for $12 a quart. After six months of almost daily use, I've only used about 5% of the bottle! I don't pour it into my bathtub because it's too expensive that way, and the store I buy it from doesn't carry a large enough quantity for me to use this much of it anyway. You need to store it in the freezer otherwise it loses potency very quickly because of the lack of stabilizers.
Currently, I'm taking 30 drops of 35% peroxide dilluted in two cups (16oz) of water, two times a day, and applying 6 drops of 35% dilluted in one cup of water to my skin while sitting in a hot bath once or twice a day. I also use it in a steam vaporizer so that I breathe it in throughout the night.
When I first started the therapy six months ago, I couldn't even stand drinking one drop in a cup of water. I was very ill at the time with severe MCS (multiple chemical sensitivites) and food allergies and mild Chronic Fatigue, and all the symptoms that go along with that. The peroxide immediately caused extreme fatigue, dizziness, headache, joint aches, etc, and made my MCS and food allergies worse. It was so bad, I actually stopped using it for several months before starting it again. I'm doing much better now, and over the last three months, I've gradually become able to tolerate much higher amounts of peroxide. The MCS is almost completely gone, but I still have a ways to go with my other symptoms. When I'm detoxing heavily all my symptoms get worse, and even my MCS temporarily returns (and then goes away again.)
The cleansing reactions are very bad. It will actually make you feel much worse before you start to feel better. Similar to the way peroxide temporarily stings when applied to an external wound, but then allows the wound to heal. With internal use for a chronic illness this cleansing process can take quite a long time... It is an EXTREMELEY POTENT detoxifier. It should be used with respect and caution.
Tim- Time, you make perfect sense #166737
21 y
3,546
This is a reply to # 443,480
It is clear that you are well educated and know what you are talking about. John is just jealous. He wants this to be his forum.
- Time, you make perfect sense #166737
21 y
3,546
- Re: Oxygen Info ??? Tim
21 y
3,529
This is a reply to # 443,478Actually, I've not found it neccessary to wear gloves when handling undiluted 35% peroxide. If I get some on my skin I just simply wash it off. It won't "burn" your skin, but it WILL oxidise (bleach) the dead skin cells on the surface of your skin, turning the area white temporarily. If you don't wash it off, the area will start to sting, but if you just wash the area off quickly with plain water no harm will result.
- Re: Oxygen Info ??? #163317
21 y
3,472
- Re: Oxygen Info ??? InCharge
21 y
3,465
- Re: Oxygen Info ??? #104270
16 y
3,606
This is a reply to # 443,472THERE IS NO deuterium freedom act. ev storey was never a twotime nobel laureate. ev storey was not a doctor, he never worked on the manhatten project, he was not a friend of albert einsteins(he met the man one time and only spoke to him one time. all just a bunch of lies to promote a product called cellfood. dont believe me ? ask your congressman about the "deuterium freedom act". and check nobel prize .org and see if everett storey is listed.(no, he is not).
- Re: Oxygen Info ??? New Girl
21 y
3,845
- Re: Oxygen Info ??? John Cullison
21 y
3,772
- Re: Oxygen Info ??? Tim
21 y
3,847
- Re: Oxygen Info ??? John Cullison
21 y
3,750
- Re: Oxygen Info ??? Tim
21 y
3,737
- Re: Oxygen Info ??? #25329
19 y
3,449
This is a reply to # 443,458I just keep H2O2 (Hydrogen-Peroxid) diluted to 3% in a spray bottle in the shower and use after heat from the shower has opened my pores. I find it cheap and convenient. I also herx like hell, but I'm only five days into treatment.
Hope this helps!
lv christy
- Re: Oxygen Info ??? John Cullison
21 y
3,681
- Re: Oxygen Info ??? Tim
21 y
3,836
- Some Quotes: Tim
21 y
4,794
RN
- Re: Oxygen Info ??? #69242
21 y
3,655
This is a reply to # 443,438Dear friends,
Another very interesting new unit! Have a look at this page!
http://www.elanra.co.uk/main.htm
Best regards from Lillian - Re: Oxygen Info ??? Neo2_000
20 y
3,556
This is a reply to # 443,438Hello Gordy,
You should also look at the therapy of Robert Beck since,like O2 therapies it is highly effective but it is so simple to deploy. You could combine both for best results.
http://healthalternative.freeyellow.com/bobbeck.htm
http://www.quantumbalancing.com/
Neo.
- Re: Oxygen Info ??? John Cullison
21 y
3,808
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