Re: Nephillum????

Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming. 15 Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ Ephesians 4:14-15

I wonder if attempting to debate a Mormon or Evangelical Christian or if even debating our faith is even a worthy cause? When Jesus debated with the Jews, they would try to kill him. I believe Jesus in the end did not defend himself in court to show us that death is better than debating people who will not listen. Jesus did not defend himself in court and they hanged him on a tree but death was vanquished that day. Jesus became the curse so that we would be saved. My love for Jesus should be exemplified by my desire to do his will by loving my Mormon, Baptist or Evangelical neighbor and also by showing compassion for unbelievers as Jesus did. I don't want to debate with people who have made up their mind and are not willing to learn something new. But rather, I will add what I believe to the conversation and if you add your comments then maybe somewhere in the middle, some learning will occur. Is that not fair? I believe there were excellent comments by everyone and I will tell my side and leave it at that.

I believe as you do that "the elect" have been deceived but that doesn't make them any less, "the elect." I have Mormon friends who believe they are in the one "true church" but my Church of Christ friends think the same. And so it is the same story in every church and every religion. Limiting the "true church" to the few millions could not be the whole of the church, which is so plentiful in heaven that they are beyond counting and compared to "grains of sand." Heaven is not just for the stodgy hardline Mormons or even the no music in church Church of Christ followers or even the whole of Evangelical Christianity but rather, I believe the bride is a whole church that includes every being with a soul, for "Every knee shall bow & every tounge shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord." All debate ends up trying to prove this or that doctine to be a false teaching but in the end, God wins every soul. I believe the "My church is better than your church... la la lala la la" notion started as soon as the false teaching of banishment to hell for sinners doctine became the doctine of soul winning. If you have a soul then God will teach that soul though each soul's device that Jesus Christ is Lord as everything and "all things" will be reconciled to God. It is my opinion that the church body is every soul and all things will be reconciled when the last soul has with their own will said with their mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord. You mentioned the misguided America today and I can't disagree with you. All of this militant christianity is certainly not following loving your neighbor tradition. I saw a wonderful bumper sticker that said, " Who would Jesus bomb?" Perhaps that day when we will all confess that Jesus is Lord will be coming soon but chasing down and murdering Muslims in Iraq is certainly not going to create more Christians and a war for oil is certainly not something Christians should be supporting.

You have put out a lot of information that was very interesting. I was particularly interested in your thoughts about the Nephilim. I believe the Nephelim are beings who have no souls and that is why they were destroyed in the days of Noah. Perhaps they mated with some outcast angels. It makes sense to me. They keep popping up again & again with David fighting them and then again with the people of Moses who felt like "grasshoppers in their sight." Where did the remnant go if they were not destroyed and they did not come from angels or Watchers? If they are from Angels then they would need to be alive and pass their genes on from generation to generation even until the end-times. If the Watchers(stars") or angels were banished then why do they keep showing up in scripture? In every case the Nephilim were defeated but they re-emerge in scipture until in the last days they are with finality defeated. As there are no giants roaming the earth today, then it could not be that these days are really the "last days" if we believe the reemergence of the Nephilum are one of the signs. I haven't seen any evil giants roaming around taking wives these days have you? If we believe that the Nephelim will be an end-times sign, then where are they?

As far as the Trinity is concerned, I know that Holy, Holy, Holy is said dozens of times in the new and old testament. Doesn't that at least imply a trinity? Remember, I wasn't debating, I was asking a question and I my mind is not made up. Is yours?
I have lots of questions but rather than debate, why can't we all just say what we believe without the I am right and you are wrong rhetoric? I really am interested in these subjects but don't want to debate the subjects. Give me some straight information without putting me down and I will try to do the same for you.