"However when knowing what I know about drug consumption and all that it entials I would much rather live in a society that is drug free and I really wish people would not take up the consumption of the drug(s)"
What about "drugs" that ease peoples pain? Or "drugs" like sugar? The ultimate gateway drug.
Then of course there is caffeine...another "drug".
"The negatives will continue to exist even if the drug is fully legalised and regulated the way that marijuana consumers want it to be, the same or similar to alcohol and presrciption drugs."
Who says we want it regulated...it's a natural herb made by the creator, ingested properly there are no negatives.
"And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat."
"I want the drug to be legalised so we can see once and for all just how well behaved or just how nasty the legal drug"
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=portugal-drug-decriminalization
"I will point out and agree that there are many people
( what percent???) that are wonderfull people who are otherwise law abiding productive citizens who consume marijuana.
Granted? They are the "Good Folk" percent of the marijuana consumers.
It is the considerable percent of bad boy drug consumers that are also involved making matters worse for the common citizens."
Did you ever think that maybe because it is illegal, that influences people to become part of the culture of illegal activity? Does alcohol have this same connotation in your view? Are people that consume alcohol nefarious? Except for the "Good Folk" drinkers?
"Do not take the drug(s)"
Do not consume food?
Hippocrates: “
"Many of the drug consumers will read this and "retort" with the usual, standard and clever denial based responces in support of the consumption of the drug ...but I dont care because I know that there are 2 kinds of people concerning drugs
Those that do not consume them and therefore they do not add to ANY problems verses those that do consume the drug and therefore create ANY problems associated with the consumption of the drug."
That is not a very logical statement, you are basically creating a strawman before anyone has even responded. There are physiological reasons why Cannabis seems to affect consciousness.
"When the drug is legalised I seriously wonder just how accountable the drug consumers will be and I wait in anticipation to see what kind of clever self serving excuses and arguements will evolve when the drug consumers are still not satisfied with the rules or regulations and certainly the laws that curb their enthusiasm and lust for the drug"
See how you just lump all "drug" users into one category, you can't even be specific in your statements. Why is that?
"To the non consumer it is painfully clear who exactly creates ANY of the problems that everyone else has to suffer or endure or tolerate and or begrudgingly have to accept."
Who is a non consumer? Everyone takes some substance and assimilates it. Chocolate is a drug, I have definitely seen it affect people poorly. I have seen the horrible effect of coffee in society. I have seen people build their muscles with protein and beat people up.
"
ANYTHING you put into your body is a DRUG, and ANYTHING you do more than once is a HABIT.
FOOD EATING IS A DRUG HABIT!
It is, in fact, the biggest drug habit of all!
Now we know who to blame!
"
http://www.economist.com/node/14309861
"It is so enjoyable a notable percent of the people want to continue the stoned feeling and therefore consume the drug again and again.."
If you have used it then you would know that it doesn't work that way, after saturation of the conponents it ceases to be euphoric at the same level. Only after stopping for a considerable period of time does it regain such effect. Marijuana is stored in fat cells and is released over time, that is why an individual will show that cannabis is still in their system for 30 days or more.
"The effects on peoples brains is not fully understood so there is lots of room to experiment and learn."
Peoples brains are not fully understood.
So your point is neither here nor there.
"Go ahead...you can be assured you will have lots of fun along the way.
If you want to be a lab rat for experimentation to prove the positives verses the negatives then you are more than welcome to volunteer and consume all the marijuana you can tolerate and we will learn together if YOU are better for it or worse off for it."
The point is not having fun, perhaps that is why you have established such a perception of Marijuana. Cannabis has been used as food, medicine etc. for thousands of years. And I certainly am better off for having consumed it, for various reasons, one being health and well being.
"I will feed it to you and I will watch your reactions .....both good and bad."
Thanks but I can administer it to myself...and thats the point I don't need a doctorpriest to tell me what I already know.
"What about "drugs" that ease peoples pain? Or "drugs" like sugar? The ultimate gateway drug.
My Answer: Here we go again..as expected...evasive reasoning.Stick to the subject matter and let marijuana stand on its own merits and detriments....the good andthe bad.
Stop comparing the drug to other substances while trying to avoid the issue concerning the specific negatives associated with the drug and its consumption while side stepping the issue of the known negatives concerning its consumption and the need to recognise them."
Your response is hypocritical, because you avoid the issue that sugar has a tremendous effect on a person and society, so much so that wars have been fought over the substance where thousands died. The subject matter is "drugs" that was your talking point, if you never wanted it to stray from marijuana you shouldn't have brought the "drugs" concept into it. Every substance has some negative effect depending on the situation and the perception of the individual. Especially sugar.
"I support it's legitimate and regulated use as one day I may need to use it myself. But that is a somewhat loaded answer because I know well that the marijuana consumers, all too often, are far from honest or forthright or even sincere about the use of the drug for medicinal puposes.
The medicinal marijuana consumption system that has evolved is very corrupted and some statistics show that less than 5% of the card carrying medical marijuana consumers are legitimate users."
"Lies, damned lies, and statistics"
"George Washington used marijuana ...
George Washington in a note to his gardener at Mount Vernon ..Some assert his interest in separating the male and female plants is an indication that he may have used Indian hemp medicinally to treat his chronic tooth aches. Others note that fiber of the male and female hemp plants have different optimum harvest times."
I don't need a doctorpriest to regulate a natural herb that is God given. Regulating Chemical extractions is one thing, regulating a naturally occuring plant is tyranny.
"Meantime the data shows that a overwhelming majority of the pot heads
(habitual consumers) abuse the legitimate system that was meant to help those that really are in need of the drug."
This is a bogus arguement because the only reason it appears the "legitimate system" is being abused is because it has been fallaciously made illegal in the first place. Also Using pot head as a derogatory term only shows the ignorance, racism, and discriminatory bent behind your arguement.
"You can clearly see that all too many of marjiuana consumers are seemingly self centered about their consumption of the drug."
Not sure where you are drawing this conclusion from other than a delusional misconception.
"Apparently they will participate in scamming a perfectly legitimate medical system that evolved out of compassion for people in need of a usefull medical substance.
That particular aspect of legal drug consumption that has evolved and how the pot heads have corrupted it is an excellant example of the collective mentality of the habitual marijuana consumer known effectionately as: POT HEADS!
What else can we expect from the habitual marijauna consumers after the system is further legalised."
The system is bunk anyway, people shouldn't have to go to a doctorpriest for herbs. The racist and discriminatory aspect of drug prohibition is well known and its roots manifest in a time when such policies were easily introduced under false pretenses. The response by the oppressed individuals you call,"POT HEADS" is simply blowback from the former era of racial and social injustice that still lingers on.
"Then of course there is caffeine...another "drug".
My answer: Exactly. Another drug? So we are just adding one more drug to the problem and we are expected to accept it and its problems because there already are other problematic drugs and or other problematic consumer subtances??? So this is the best answer you can offer when marijuana is pointed out to have its own problems also??
Again, stick to the subject of marijauna and let the drug stand on its own merits concerning its good points and bad points.
We all know well the good points that the drug consumer wants us to desperately acknowledge and we have and will continue to aknowledge good points and suggestions but comparisons are not the best answer. Meantime do the drug free citizens the respect of acknowledging its negatives and detriments to individuals and to society in general."
Why don't you point out some real negative effects instead of speaking of some nebulous "nefarious characters". Comparison is a perfectly legitimate form of argument, and I definitely think coffee beans should remain legal despite their percieved negative effects. You are the one that continues to lump all "drug" users into a seperate category from "drug free citizens" , when the truth is everyone is a drug user in one form or another.
"Answer: Gee wizz I did not realise that there are no problems with the drug..I guess I have been duped for falling for all those legitimate "NON GOVERNMENT data based reports that continue to inform us and educated us about the numerous known problems with the consumption of the drug."
My response to your staement is," ingested properly there are no negatives." It is the fault of the very studies that you point to where they have improperly administered cannabis and then blamed it on the herb itself.
They did the same thing with Tobacco. They did a bunch of studies on tobacco that was grown in toxic soil with conventional radioactive fertilizers and guess what they found...it causes cancer. Then they blame all tobacco for causing cancer. Very tricky what they did, and they do the same thing with cannabis. Those studies aren't in depth enough, they don't take all the factors into account, because it would be nearly immpossible to track all the factors. Another comparison I have used here to illustrate the drug policy gone wrong.
"My answer: May have worked back then but that was then and they did not know nearly as much as they know now about the drug and the associated problems with its consumption."
Oh? and what supposed problems are there, that effect society over the individual?
"There were not millions and millions of people taking the drugs on top of more drugs on top of more drugs and or a long list of negative substances that need to have some degree of control and law enforcement attached to their wide spread public consumption."
Are you sure about that? Were you there? Perhaps cannabis was merely considered a food and not a drug at all. The fact is you don't know.
"
My Answer: Ahhhh yes. Positive results. Of course there was / is positive results. However, as usual, you forgot to include the negative results that are so easily ignored."
You are the one that never included the negative results in the first place(other than the nebulous "nefarious characters"). I was merely pointing out a study for your benefit. If you raed the article it mentions negatives involved.
"****Is the ongoing consistancy in ignoring the negatives of marijuana consumption something that is "developed" by the drug consumers or is it a naturally inherited gene that I did not inherit and you did.***"
What negatives? You have failed to produce any negatives that supercede the proper use of the substance.
"On the other hand the non drug consumers will continue to acknowledge and respect any positive aspects of the drug consumption and take them into consideration."
I seriously doubt there is such a thing as a "non drug consumers" in mode-earn society.
"My answer: Yes ..and that is why I want it legalized so we can better recognize the self serving excuses verses the hard facts concerning the conduct of THAT percent of people. The people who consume the mind altering and physically altering substances that effect their public social conduct and how they interact with "sober,lucid people"."
You know it is ironic that the very same problem exists within the people that label themselves as "sober,lucid people". One obvious example is a consumer that eats food, and they somehow think they are drug free, when the food is filled with "drugs", pesticides, anti-biotics, herbicides, refined sugar, etc. They are toxic, and yet they believe they are "sober,lucid people". You have pointed out that not one is in fact "sober,lucid people"." This part is the most telling.....people who consume the mind altering and physically altering substances,..." like cholesterol, sugars(blood sugar alters the state of mind), Cayene alters the blood flow to the body and mind, I could go on and on, but I think you get the idea. Food alters the physical body and the mind.
http://www.rsc.org/Publishing/Journals/cb/Volume/2009/4/Food_for_thought.asp
"You know..the sober,lucid individuals who are the sworn enemy that the drug consumers loath so much because many others choose to be drug free and want to advise you and others to listen to sensible advice when they advise it is best not to take the drug."
Seems like it is the other way around. It is the people that are under the delusion that they are drug free, that enforce their will on individuals in a fascist state of collectivism, through a cookie cutter approach.
"My answer: Yes better not to take the drugs. Simple good advice. Your family would be happy knowing you do not consume the drug."
My family is not so close minded as to believe in such a statement. They are well aware of the reality that consumption of substances whether they are given the stigma of "drugs" or "food" can have detrimental effects if improperly administered. This is why the don't try to consume green peas through their nose !)
"Do not consume food?
My answer: Truely bad comparison.ButI will visit you in the hospital after you do not consume the ESSENTIAL elements called food wich is "absolutely needed" for your well being and survival.
Marijauna, on the other hand, is NOT needed ...at all!"
Unfortunately there is no proof supporting your claim, and ultimately your reasoning is irrelevant, because hemp/marijuana is food, and does contain valuable nutrient and minerals. As matter of fact Cannabis contains phenols in amounts that are not found in other plants. Just like Tumeric contains a valuable anti-inflammatory call curcumin, so too does the cannabis plant contain valuable anti-inflammatory compounds. These compounds are definitely needed for well being if an individual is having an inflammatory attack. Sure people may not "need" them, but they will survive alot longer and have a substantially better quality of life if they do have them. Therefore it could easily be said "They need those herbs."
"If every marijuana consumer was to consume their pot in the sanctuary of their home and sit there while totally immobilised by the drug and not move for the next 12 hours until the drug effects wore off then I would love the drug to death for being nearly non problematic to any one else in any significant way."
This is total bunkem, cannabis taken in small doses is hardly noticeable. And at larger doses and when taken for an extensive period of time, it does nothing noticeable but dilate the blood vessels, which creates a relaxing sensation similar to a bathh in magnesium salts.
"It is a party harty,yahoo,yeehaw drug for most consumers."
All part of your stereotype, one size fits all mentality.
"Where the drug goes the trouble goes and where the trouble goes the drug goes."
Again this is false. There is no proof of this.
"That is not my theory about the use of the drug."
That is a lie, because you just stated it, therefore it is your theory. I did not see any quotations around your statement therefore it is safe to assume that you have stated it.
"It is the yahoos and yeehaws and bad boys and its association with the criminal elements that the law is concerned about and it is concerned about it on your behalf also ..if you have not realised it yet."
Thanks but I don't "need" the "law"(that is the police) to help me out, they have done enough damage already as it is, I do not give my consent for them to oppress and loot the lower caste people in society and build their prison indusytrial complex, under the guise of my "behalf". I do not consent to the oppression of non-violent drug offenders(which are the majority) as an excuse for "helping me out".
"You are also subject to any POSSIBLE bad behaviour and or the POSSIBLE negative ramifications of peoples drug consumption."
I am also subject to any POSSIBLE bad behaviour by those who try to make it appear as though they are helping me out.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2011/10/13/2011-10-13_excop_we_fabri...
"The Police and the law enforcement officials will come to your aid also, if and when there IS a drug related problem that needs their attentions. IF and when it is effecting you in some legally recognised way."
You mean like the article above, because thats how they do it in reality.
"Do not think that you will not and or can not be effected in some negative way by the consumption of marijuana by other people."
Ok you got me on this one, I admit sometimes cannabis users over sleep, I suppose that has effected me negatively on the occasion.
"That other half ,while they are stoned on the drug called marijauna when it is obvious it surely was the drug consumption that created the problem that you are now confronted with."
Ok, I know what you are getting at here, but could you give a few examples where Marijuana was the sole cause for a major problem? Otherwise I'm calling B*&lSh#% on this statement.
"Should we register you on the police data base that clearly states you are a pro marijauna advocator who repeatedly stated: "There are no problems with marijauna consumption and marijauna consumers cause no problems at all"
Typical fascist rhetoric. If the police were actually just, that would be one thing, but it is safe to say most police are not "Good Folks".
""Hmmmmmm....Best to ignore it because they are smoking pot and we all know the pot heads are hands off now a days because it is legal now and not good public relations to arrest any pot heads no matter what they do."
If all they were doing is drinking and smoking pot, they can do what they want, its called freedom. But within a city that is incorporated sound laws apply. But honestly I would be OK with that as well. Because I have taken the measures to ensure my living situation.
"My answer: I am not sorry if the facts disturb you and or challenge your beliefs that marijuana can do no harm and the consumers of the drug can do no harm.
Furthermore you are intelligent enough to know the meaning of what I have said."
As with the quote that I responded to, here you are framing the debate, and misrepresenting my position, is this how you represent "non drug consumers"? By distorting the truth. Your statement was illogical because "non drug consumers" as you put it, contribute to problems just like any other human being. I grasp your meaning and that meaning did not make logical sense.
"My answer: Again you know the meaning of what I have said and you can not side step the fact that all too many of the drug consumers argue that their consumption of the drug is innocent."
Ok, I didn't understand your meaning, and I still don't your use of the term "drug consumer" is baffling because it is not well defined and only means something to you, I obviously do not share your implied definition. What is you definition of drugs? Who is a "drug consumer"?
"I know for certain that a percentage of the drug consumers will not abide by the new laws or regulations and rules and the rules of drug consumption decorum that you and many may very well abide by."
I know for certain a percentage of people will not abide by new laws or regualtions and rules that are unjustly foisted upon them by the powers that be.
"Remember, the laws and rules are being changed and in favour of the drug consumer and the good drug consumers reputations are at risk by way of the bad boy consumers who fortify the belief that marijuana is consumed by bad people."
Only by people like you that lump all "drug consumers" into the same category, and make it a blanket problem instead of one that is dealt with justly, on a case by case basis.
"Will you be one of the citizens that police the conduct of that percent of the yahoos and nefarious types that destroy the good image of the drug that you work so hard to have accepted into mainstream society??"
I don't need to police anything, I know what the truth is. And Marijuana is relatively benign compared to many other things in this society. The only part of marijuana that is not benign and will have a huge impact on society, is the production and use of Industrial Hemp. When that happens, and people are free to grow cannabis for food and industrial needs, Society will literally be transformed for the better in so many ways it is countless.
"In the middle of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bore twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations." Revelation 22:2
"No.... of course not.You will expect the law enforcement aspect of society to take care of that, as always because that is what is expected of your government and paid for by your tax dollars."
You really don't know me very well.
""Go get those trouble makers and those law breakers and protect us from the negative ramifications of such nefarious individuals that create disharmony amongst us law abiding legal marijuana consuming citizens."
"We have worked hard to make the drug acceptable and all our efforts are being destroyed by the abusers of our noble and decent drug marijuana.""
They and you will never be able to destroy what is eternally good.
"Lets not make comparisons to other drugs and alcohol..lets stay on coarse here with the conduct of many of the marijauna consumers while they are stoned and functioning in a altered mental and physical state."
This seems like a tactic to limit the debate in your favor. All the while you use terms like "drug consumer" in order to relate all substances that you deem are bad into the same category. Comparing and contrasting is part of the debate and part of reality, looks like you are going to have to live with comparisons. Just like I live with your "drug consumers" terminology.
As for the conduct of marijuana users I find they tend to be peaceful people that would like to be left alone, and not lorded over by a bunch of self righteous hypocrits.
"Lets realise the percentages and just how much of a liability the drug consumption entails."
I thought you didn't want to compare all drugs, yet you make no distiction in this statement, therefore comparison, is a logical step toward distinction.
"You seem to want to say that the drug is perfectly acceptable in your mind while ignoring that many people make its consumption a questionable substance by way of their personal conduct while stoned on the substance while interacting with people who are lucid ( not stoned )and well aware that they are interacting with a person who is stoned and fuctioning in an altered mental and physical state."
Way to try to misrepresent my position. Peoples personal conduct is up to their own discernment and temperment which they are responsible for in the final equation. I cannot say who is actually lucid as I am not sure of peoples particular diets or potential mineral and nutrient deficiencies. Perhaps people that exhibit behaviour that you call acting "stoned" are actually nutrient deficient, and the cannabis is merely revealing their said deficiency.
"Sure ....as long as the marijuana consumers are all happy and helpfull and cheerfull and hard working and energetic and don not cause any trouble at all and strive to be part of the team effort then they are and will be accepted and welcomed. Those pot heads that are like that when stoned are a bonus. However lets not try to BS one another here and tell me ALL the pot heads are a bonus to society while the lucid, drug free, non drug consumers should all welcome them with open arms and embrace them because they have been enlightened by their consumption of the drug called marijuana."
Why don't you tell me ALL "lucid"(which carries the connotation that they are bright and glowing, which does not reflect the reality of people who essentially call themselves "non drug consumers" ) people are a bonus to society, despite the fact that they have the potential for evil just like any human being. They are not enlightened because of their delusional stance that they are drug free, and nobody is asking a bunch of delusional people to welcome them with open arms, on the contrary most cannabis users would like to be left alone by people with such delusions.
"he non conusmers are NOT obligated by any means or laws to have to accept the drug consumers new found, drug induced, drug seduced personalities and or their new found drug seduced and drug induced attitudes."
There is nothing "new" about cannabis consumption, it has been going on for thousands of years. I have many friends that do not use cannabis, they get along with those that do just fine, they don't act as if they are morally superior because they know in reality they are not.
"Nor are they obligated to accept a collective mentality that commonly and belligerantly defends the use of the drug they have discovered while experimenting with just how much marijuana they can consume while having to interact with the rest of society."
Nobody is obligated to accept anything in society, and Marijuana was discovered ages ago, and it never destroyed a society in the past. Being incoherent is not unique to Marijuana users, people get confused for all kinds of reasons beyond the scope of drugs in particular. Another ridiculous statement where you are reaching and grasping. For what I don't know. But it is an abject failure.
"Once again...IF everyone of the marijauna consumers were to be a legitimate bonus to society in overwhelming ways that would encourage the rest of society to accept millions and millions of stoned people functioning in a wonderfull socially acceptable way then that would support your arguments for the consumption of the drug."
It is already happening throughout the USA, people are already accepting of legitimate users of Marijuana.
"But that is not the case and all too many of the marijauna consumers are of questionable value and certainly questionable conduct when they are stoned and functioning in a altered mental and physical state that comes with its detriments."
Oh, but it is the case millions of people accept that cannabis use is relatively benign. As far as the supposed detriments, you have yet to point out any real proof other than your own anecdotl statements. Perhaps the people that act as if in an altered state do so merely because their inhibitions are lowered. Perhpas they normally act as such under different circumstance. Again all food alters the physicla and mental state of the being that consumes it, it's call satiation.
"When the marijuan consumers and the POT HEADS start to admit the detrimental aspects of the drug consumption you will find the rest of society slowly begin to further accept the drug consumer as long as they are proven to be more benificial while proving themselves worthy of acceptance including the drug that comes with them."
Not sure what specific detriments you are talking about so I can't comment.
"It is a social issue as much as it is a legal issue so lets assume the drug will be legalised? The big question will be: "How much more of a burden to society will the drug consumer be and what negatives will develope in the new order of liberal legal drug consumption.""
If it all happens as you postulate, "new order of liberal legal drug consumption" then there will be controls and regulations put in place, you can be assured of that. No doubt the punishment will be used selectively and mostly on the lower caste people that cannot protect themselves as easily. Next will be the political victims, and after that anyone else thattries to change the social order or challenges the powers that be.
"I have seen people build their muscles with protein and beat people up.
My answer: I have you to answer for me.Thanks. You more or less answered your own question.
Once again.As we can see there are numerous detrimental substances that have evolved as consumer products and we should take heed and learn well from the exact examples that you give as an argument.
To me and many others it does not make sense to defend the product by comparing it to another negative product while its defence clearly suggests that the other products are a problem so we might as well accept one more problem and later on we will learn just how much of a problem there is.
Sensibilities tell us: Better to be safe than sorry!"
So what you are saying is that protein is a problem? Secondly coffee and chocolate are not negative if used properly. So your counter argument falls flat.
"My answer: Is that your logic?
Do I need to consume marijuana for my well being and or my survival? Not to my knowledge."
Well you don't seem very knowledgeable from your messages so that isn't saying much. People definitely use Marijuana for their well-being as I have explained above.
"When I eat the food that I eat, I "DO NOT" experience a altered mental and physical state LIKE "that" of the drug marijuana."
Well I only experience an altered mental state when I consume it in enormous amounts. And fortunately I do experience altered physical state when I consume it, because I feel sick otherwise.
"Lets not BS one another here.
The drug is consumed soley for it ability to alter your mental and physical state and the drug creates a strong and overwhelming euphoric condition that commonly immobilises most people to a degree, especially if the dosage is very stong."
Cannabis is not just consumed for the abilities you have laid out, it is a very tasty herb, I know plenty of people that simply love the flavor and generally refrain due to the other effects. Yet if they feel it will help them feel better then they use it for that purpose. When used in small amounts it can have excellent medicinal and culinary uses. I have seen a few people become immobilized as you put it. But have never heard of a single overdose.
"I eat chocolate all the time and I do not experience anything at all like that which the effects of marijauna have on me and anyone."
So you admit that chocolate is a drug, yet you call yourself a "Non drug consumer"
I love the smell of hypocrisy in the morning...smells like victory.
"Come on now...that is a very loose and feeble argument and comparison concerning the specific negative side effects to NON EESSENTIAL drug consumption."
That is your narrow perspective, it is very essential to those who would like to feel better, or have a poor appetite. You seem to be pretty poor at proof reading your statements there seem to be alot of mis-spelled words. Did you ever notice how most chocolate candy bars names are mis-spelled, why that's detrimental!
Seriously though everyday foods contain toxins that people don't even know are effecting them, at least you notice the effect of cannabis.
"Your kind of grasping at thin air here looking for something to defend the drug."
I am not grasping at air, food contains drugs and toxins, and the body and mind are effected by those substances, like it or not. Refined sugar and high fructose corn syrup are especially damaging. Everyday "non drug consumers" have those regularly. And don't give the lets stop making comparisons BS, it is what it is. Consuming must be done properly acrossed the board otherwise the effect is toxic.
"Again...lets stick to the facts about the negatives of marijuana consumption and recognise them and take them into account as part of what to expect in relation to its wide spread consumption in a liberal legal marijauna consumption environment."
You still haven't pointed out the "negative" effects that you perceive. other than you nebulous "nefarious characters".
"Once again I will defend that simple observation because I do not consume the drug ( but I did ) and while I do not consume the drug I do not add to any problems that the drug consumption does cause"
You still haven't explained what problems that marijuana causes.
"even as small and insignificant as some of the related problems may be."
yeah, I'm waiting.
"Each negative aspect of the drug consumption has to be recoginsed and it is recognised that the supply of the drug and its consumption creates numerous problems."
The only ones I can think of are due to it being illegal, what are the other ones?
"Legalisation and control of the substance will lessen the problems in SOME aspects of the the drug supply and consumption equation but there will remain numerous problems related to the consumption.
Can society tolerat them and or absorb them?"
You talk of these problems, but you never can be specific, so I can't fully comment.
"Yes we will survive but meantime I know that who ever supplies it and who ever consumes it is recognised as the source of the contention and the source of the problems that have evolved and will continue to evolve."
What problems do you speak of? Be specific.
"We know the alcohol suppliers and the alchol consumers are the basis of the problems related to alcohol consumption.
Take away any and all the laws and regulations and see what will happen."
Now that would be interesting, people might have to finally take responsibility for themselves. And the government would no longer be able to monopolize through licensing.
"I dont drink either so I know I am not personally contributing to the problems and ...Yes...if I wanted too I have the right to sit on top of my throne and point at the people who did create and or cause the problems associated with alcohol consumption.
That has nothing to do with over blown self righteousness and believe me I am NOT a practising puritian.
It not only applies to drug consumption ..it applies to many consumer products and I am as guilty as the rest in my consumption of many products that cause problems for you and me and the whole world population."
From "non drug consumer" to "rabid consumer"
"However, concerning the consumption of the non essential, recreational drugs I can say with confidence that my non consumption of that Particular consumer product is helping to reduce any negative impact on society"
Glad to see you accept responsibility for your actions, but everyone does not have the same reaction as you, it's not all negative for other people.
"where as the consumption of the same substace by other people is further adding to any of the known negatives and will continue as long as consumption continues."
That's where your wrong, and you have provided no evidence to prove otherwise.
You are entitled to your opinion, but so far your statements don't hold water.
"I can admit that my consumption of sugar is all part of the negatives of sugar consumption but I do not argue on behalf of the consumption of that particualr substance and I do not defend the use of the substance.
I am guilty of many things also..but not by way of adding to the problems of drug consumption."
Sugar is a drug. http://sugarisadrug.com/
"No need to join the club...the benifits are not all they are touted to be."
There you go with your chocolate spelling again. I'm personally not joining any club. I have real experience with multiple benefits from the substance you call a "drug" and i call "food" and "medicine" And the effect on my life has been real and transformative, and I still exist thanks in part to the wonderful and beautiful plants God has provided. That everyone should be able to be free from the shackles of ignorrance and tyranny that is the restriction of natural substances. Cannabis is the prime example. The powers that be will seek to control it and destroy its goodness, but they will fail.
"The non drug consumers are bending to accomodate the drug consumer and the governemnts are pandering to the demands of the drug consumers based on a degree of sensible arguments that are hard do deny."
Actually it is cannabis users who are bending to accomadate narrow minded people who think they don't consume drugs, and have bought the government line that Marijuana is a scourge. They are looking for something to blame because they cannot accept that there are people that have evil in their hearts whether they take drugs or not. Cannabis is an herb that provides substances which already occur naturally in the human body it is ultimately, in the greater scheme of things no different than any other herb. And while the human body provides its own cocktail of drugs even "non consumers" get high on adrenaline and countless endorphins manufactured within their own bodies.
Endorphins are among the brain chemicals known as neurotransmitters, which function to transmit electrical signals within the nervous system. At least 20 types of endorphins have been demonstrated in humans. Endorphins can be found in the pituitary gland, in other parts of the brain, or distributed throughout the nervous system.
Stress and pain are the two most common factors leading to the release of endorphins. Endorphins interact with the opiate receptors in the brain to reduce our perception of pain and act similarly to drugs such as morphine and codeine. In contrast to the opiate drugs, however, activation of the opiate receptors by the body's endorphins does not lead to addiction or dependence.
http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=55001
You see even this analysis is misleading...because addiction to endorphins does occur, Adrenaline junkies exist, many are police officers, politicians that lie(and get an epinephrin dump when they get away with it.) Anyone who makes money on the Stock Market, etc.
The Human body creates hormones, those hormones drive people sexually, people do crazy things, they have enough drugs in them already to be as irresponsible as is humanly possible.
Wake up and smell the drug store that is within the human body. And realize that it is irresponsibility not "drugs" that is the problem.
"Tell that to the person who was hit by a drunk driver."
ah, ah, ahhhhh...I thought you weren't into making comparisons. A little hypocritical don't you think.
"When you are caught by the police you can argue it was your irrisponsibilty that caused the accident and alcohol had nothing to do with the accident while you go on about endorphines and chemical receptors in the brain and how good they are for you and society, the police will still be booking you for drunk driving and the judge will laugh you out of court when you try to tell him the alcohol had nothing to do with your actions on that particular day while you were drunk and operating a motor vehicle"
This is your argument? If you were driving and you killed someone then you are responsible regardless of whether you are drunk or not.
"In the future, when the marijuana is legalized you will see "Drugging and Driving" laws evolve and when you get pulled over and tested for the levels of chemicals in your body relative to the amount of marijuana you have consumed
you are going to be penalised for your irrisponsibility."
Of course there will be, its all about making money in the New World Order. As a matter of fact they already bust people in some states, even though people are more likely to kill a person because they are too tired, than they are if they just smoked a joint.
"The police will fully agree with you that it is your irrisponsibility that you are being arrest for and you can have it your way mister! Either way your going to pay a fine and or other enforced penalties for irrisponsibly opeating a motor vehicle will impaired and under the influence of the No Harm drug known as marijuana."
IRRESPONSIBILITY, it definitely wasn't the drugs fault, because the driver made the choice to get in the vehicle, so stop blaming cannabis and be RESPONSE ABLE.
"So you have all the answers to the laws.
It is clear you do not like the laws and law enforcement."
Trying to misrepresent my position again, you do this alot. Just like you misrepresent cannabis users with your fallacious, "nefarious Characters" talking point.
Laws are good, as long as they are just, law enforcement is fine when it is just. In the case of the current drug laws and system, INJUSTICE is the word that comes to mind.
"Your saying that it does not matter at all if a person is drunk or stoned or intoxicated on any substance because it has nothing to do with what happens when that person has an accident of any kind."
Continuing with your lisrepresentation of what I have stated. I never said that, those are your words, and you are trying to paint me with your stereotype brush that you wield. It's about being responsible for ones actions, and not blaming a substance that people have often intentionally taken too much. It boils down to one statement.Be responsible for your actions.
"That is how your retort reads."
Thats how you decide to read it...be responsible for your actions. You made that decision.
"It is all about responsibility and nothing to do with the drug??"
What is "all"? Be specific. Being vague is not going to clarify anything.
"Your saying the accident would have happened anyhow even if the person was lucid and not under the influence of a drug."
Misrepresentation of what I stated.
"Your right in some aspects and wrong in one aspect...because we are talking about an accident or accidents that DID or do involve drugs or alcohol."
That is your specification, I was speaking of killing someone while driving, intoxicated or not. Don't misrepresent what I have stated.
"If your were not stoned then you can argue it is responsibility only.
If you ARE stoned or drunk then that changes the circumstances and the intoxication becomes a factor to be considered and or acknowledged."
It changes little in terms of responsibility, because either way, the individual is responsible for their decisions.
"If you are or were really tired then you should also not drive the vehicle and the responsible choice is to not drive..if you are trying to be 100 percent responsible."
Exactly my point. Personal responsibility.
"Nope...the law enforcement of the country does not listen nor agree to peoples reasoning that argues the drugs or alchol have nothing to do with the events that occured if and when you do get caught speeding or involved in an accident while intoxicated on any mind altering and physically altering substance..even if it is a prescription drug."
Law enforcement is also unjust, and basically a tool to fleece the public of their earnings and rights. Police are money making and control entities.
"MY Answer:If that is the case then stop taking the drug because it is irresponsible to take the drug and that is one of the main arguments about drug consumption."
What is one of the main arguments? Be specific. What is "that"? It is your narrow view that it is irresponsible to take the food/medicine that is cannabis. The truth is it is irresponsible to try and force a false paradigm on others.
"The accident is not so much really about fault rather it has a lot to do with factors and how drunk or stoned the vehicle operator was / is is a major factor....not the fault."
I'm going to use your tactic of misrepresentation on this one, so you can see how it feels, and realize how distorted your arguments are......From what I gather here, you are saying it's nobodies fault.
"People who do not take the drugs make the decision to be responsible by not taking the drug while the drug users are,in effect, making a decision that is irresponsible."
It would be irresponsible to not take care of ones self. But practically everybody takes drugs and consumes mentally and physically altering substances, so your argument is moot.
"Maybe you need to spend a week with the traffic enforcement officers and see the results of intoxicated drivers and witness the mess created by irresponsible, intoxicated drivers.'
I have been to traffic school, seen "Bloody Asphault" been in car accidents seen the mes cause by intoxicated drivers. But I can tell you the horrible traffic accidents by cannabis users while supposedly "intoxicated" rarely occur. It is much more likely that a person that is tired/sleepy will have a horrible accident than a person that takes cannabis.
""Drug responsibly" will say the future advertisements in an attempt to curb the amount of problems or accidents or irresponsible behaviour that occurs when people are stoned..especially those that are really, really stoned."
Why don't you produce some real statistics rather than speculate.
"Like you thought it would be really funny to try and stand on the hood of your friends car and drive down the road at 30 miles per hour. Until you fell off and and broke your arm and 2 ribs along with a concussion to your head."
Now what? Are you trying to accuse me of something? That I never did?
"I personally witnessed some fine, irresponsible behaviour demonstrated by people very stoned on marijauna and they were otherwise responsible and law abiding citizens...until they got stoned and made drug induced irresponsible decisions that can be argued whould not have been made when they were lucid."
Sure you could argue that, but you may be wrong in your argument. That can be argued regarding your presumptuous statement.
"I am certain they would not have made the same irresponsible decisions if they had been sober."
Proove it.
"But meantime the marijuana consumers state: Dont lump us all together and call us irresponsible when we are responsible law abiding citizens."
This is a ludicrous statement, and a continued presumption. You are trying to create a strawman here.
"You just shot yourself in the foot if you want to argue about responsibilities relative to the consumption of the NON ESSENTIAL, Recreational drugs that result in a altered mental and physical state.
You may be feeling good and having fun but your stoned condition can and sometimes is a liabilty to other people around you and or anyone you may come into contact with while you are stoned...especially if you are really, really stoned."
This is a ridiculous and baseless statement. Vague. Marijuana is ESSENTIAL to my well being, you have no idea of my health issues. And some people are appreciative that I still exist and even thrive as a result of the God given herb called cannabis.
"If you truly are a responsible person then you will not be consuming any substances at all that can and do "significantly" effect your mental and physical abilities which can and do effect other people around you."
I am responsible for taking cannabis, it helps me from being ill, and people find me to be alot more relaxed and whinny when I take cannabis, so once again your argument is baseless and false.
"That is not my opinion...that is a consensus!"
Oh, a consensus....thats a bunch of BS.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/150149/Record-High-Americans-Favor-Legalizing-Mari...
"If you decided to tie your feet together, then your ability to function would be impaired and you could easily fall down and hurt yourself and when you are falling down you may very well cause harm to other people around you."
That is a stretch because what if nobody else is around. looks like you didn't take that into account on your little hypothetical. Get real.
"When you get drunk or really high you have self impaired yourself."
Again you hypocritically make a comparison, which you initially said should not be done. It is your opinion that cannabis always causes impairment. This to the detriment of your argument.
"It is known as "being mentally and physically impaired" and it can and does effect people around you if you are impaired because you made the irresponsible decision to get impaired in the first place.
Then make a further irresponsible decision to operate a motor vehicle while you are stoned or perform some other functions that require your attentions and focus 100 percent...especially when other people can / could and sometimes do suffer your impairment."
Your reaching here.
"That is one of the main moral and legal arguments about drug consumption."
That barely even made sense. Again, impairment is relative case by case.
"Plain and simple..it IS irresponsible to get stoned or drunk in the first place and then try to go about doing what has to be normally done while you are functioning in a altered mental and physical state."
It is IRRESPONSIBLE to distort the truth.
"If you fall down the stairs while you are drunk or stoned you can totally blame yourself, if you want, for making the decision to go down the stairs but most people will recognise the fact that you were very mentally and physically impaired by the drug or the alcohol and that was a significant factor as to why you fell down the stairs that particular time..when you were "self" impaired."
Still making ridiculous hypotheticals and hypocritical comparisons.
"Do people fall down the stairs when they are sober? Of course they do..all the time ...but the total amount of people who would or do fall down the stairs is more, if and when a drug or alcohol is involved and when they are "self" impaired."
There is no proof more people fall down the stairs when they take cannabis.
"You can then seperate the incidents as incidents called accidents and incidents influenced by self impairment.
The drinking and driving laws did not evolve because the big, bad law enforcement people saw an opportunity to make money from the public so they created some money making laws."
And yet they are used injustly none the less.
"And the nation wide organisation call MADD did not form because a bunch of women thought it would be a cool thing to form a organisation that seeks to lessen the impact on peoples lives because of drinking and driving related motor vehicle accidents."
And what does this have to do with cannabis in your argument?
"I hope you dont drink and drive and I hope you dont drug and drive also."
I have over the counter drug and driven in the past. I had a really bad headache that was effecting my driving, so I took a pain reliever and my driving improved dramatically.
"By what you are saying , if and when you do get in an accident with another persons motor vehicle and it is recognised and proven, for the record, the person that was operating the other vehicle that slammed into the side of your vehicle and crippled you for life, was very high on marijuana at the time...you in all your wisdom are not even going to consider the drug factor???"
From what I know, probably not, not very likely. That is a fact.
"You are going to argue on his behalf that it was / is ok that he was self impaired at the time he crashed into you."
Misreprsentaion, something you are good at.
"You are going to whole heartedly agree that any mention of the drug is to be stricken from the record as it had nothing to do with the accident."
More false misrepresentation.
"It is all about the responsibility and the drug is not a factor
The accident could have happened anyhow and you just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time when the self impaired and thoroughly stoned driver slammed into you.
OK.You believe that....butI will still come and visit you in the hospital and talk to you about fate and how the stoned driver is still out there continuing to drive around while self impaired and continually stoned."
Ridiculous hypothetical.
"If you just sit there and do nothing at all when you are stoned or drunk then more than likely nothing harmfull or negative will happen to you and or people around you."
That is a brilliant deduction.(sarc)
"It is a proven fact that when drunk or stoned, people try to carry on doing the normal everyday tasks, including driving. The increase in possible accidents and self inflicted harm and harm to others increases substantially."
There are studies that have proven that people in fact drive more carefully while taking cannabis, so this statement is flawed, you can try and use the fascist technique of clumping being drunk and stoned together, but they are not the same.
"I work in the heavy construction industry working with men and some women on projects as large as 3000 men and women.
Try working on a safety oriented construction sight and tell your co-workers you are a responsible drug consuming
co-worker and the drug has nothing to do with how well you perform along side of your lucid and sober co-workers while working in a dangerous and hazardous work place environment."
I assure you some of those people are on one drug or another. It is virtually guaranteed.
"They have a zero tolerance culture concerning the consumption of drugs or alcohol and any one found with drugs or alcohol in the construction site camp facilities is immediatly fired."
I guarantee you some of those people are on prescription drugs.
"But go ahead and try to get away with it and see how long you last arguing the drug has nothing to do with your safety performance or lack of it while your stoned or drunk on the jobsite."
Continuing your misrepresentation of what I stated, I hope you have enjoyed writing all this. This has to be the lamest argument I have encountered yet.
"Yes ..your right ..it is "first" all about responsibilities"
uh..huh..
"...and non essential, recreational drug consumption is irrisponsible."
Not if you do it responsibly. Think about it. It is IRRISPONSIBLE not to.
http://phoenixtears.ca/
"I dont take the drugs any more."
Except that processed chocolate and sugar that distorts your perception. Then of course any time you don't eat truly organic food you are also intoxicating yourself. Not to mention all the herbs you consume that also intoxicate you.
"I dont take the drugs any more.There is nothing about them that attracts me to them and I have no reason at all to consume them anymore. From the time I was 16 to around 26 I consumed marijuana and I now know plenty enough about the drug and or the many nefarious types of people who consume them and I know well enough it is a drug that is not at all worthy of my attention for recreational consumption."
If you are going to have such a negative perception of a simple herb then that is probably for the best.
"After 11 years of consumption I woke up to the fact that it IS a drug and will always be a drug and it is just more drug crap amongst all the other non essential drug crap, in my personal opinion."
And it is my opinion that you are way off base and your logic is delusional.
"I am not alone in that opinion and furthermore I know that many people try it and many people consume it for years and then finally stop consuming the drug , for many personal reasons."
Racists aren't alone in their opinions either, so what.
"Often enough it is because they see others who fall foul of the law and they realise they can not fight the system and they do not want to fight the system and be a crusader and or a prison inmate martyr."
People that don't want to stand up for their God given rights and cower from unjust pressure by fascist fools are a big problem with collectivised society.
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
"They choose to leave that up to the others.
Defending the drug and its consumption is hardly a worthy cause....but you go ahead and you can also carry on defending it from inside a prison if you want."
I won't be intimidated by unjust and baseless reasoning and laws. I'm more free than most, when I follow principles of truth and justice. I'm not going to let a bunch of scare mongerers dictate my destiny.
"I will always be critical of drug consumers who argue the same self serving argumets for their personal consumption of non essential recreational drugs and always have their own personal reasons for taking the drug."
That's fine, I will always be critical of self-serving miscreants, who want to impress their unjust will on others under false pretenses and delusional rhetoric.
"If and when it does cause you some harm in any way then that is something that you have to live with while the rest of society also has to live it and any problems it causes.It could have been avoided by not taking the drug."
Again that staement is couched under false pretenses which you cannot even explain, because you have no argument of any specific problems cannabis causes. All you can talk about is the nebulous "nefarious characters" which is a total cop out.
"The drug consumers, over all, talk the same way that cigarette consumers talked 50 years ago while ignoring the health related problems and any other problems associated with its consumption, as small as they may be in some aspects."
I thought you didn't want to make comparisons? Sign of your continuing hypocrisy.
"Health related problems that evolve could be avoided if you did not take the drug for recreational purposes."
Health problems could be avoided if you consumed your chocolate and sugar properly, rather than recreationally.
"If you want to take the drug for recreationa puposes the rest of the citizens are not going to simply accept it and you are going to have to accept that fact."
It matters not if they accept it or not. It is my God given right to consume any herb. This is what is just.
"You can go on and on about the positive aspects of the drug until you are blue in the face and educate people until they all become experts on "all the facts" but most people will still choose to oppose the use of the drug for recreational purposes."
Most people already agree that cannabis should be legal.
http://prohibitionsend.com/2011/10/17/gallup-poll-majority-of-americans-favor...
"No matter what you say most of the people do not want it around them and the associated problems that have evloved and will continue to evolve."
View the above link to find out why you are wrong.
"They dont want alcohol around them and the associated problems and or tobacco and the associated problems. You and the drug consumers will have to live with other peoples criticisms and rejection of the drug(s)including rejection of the people who are stoned on the drugs."
Being rejected by close minded people like yourself is practically a compliment. It's your and those who agree with your ilk that will lose in the end. I accept your criticism how ever distorted it is and I can logically see why you feel the way that you do, but rejection from you and yours is hardly something to be overly concerned of just as rejection from a crackhead is hardly something to be concerned of.
"No amount of reasoning and arguing will change the fact that most people want less of the non essential drugs around them and they want to see less consumption ..not more."
Yeah whatever, most Americans are on prescription drugs, which could be viewed as non-essential given that there are healthier alternatives.
http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/healthcare/a/usmedicated.htm
"The fact that people want it legalised is not about accepting the drug into their other wise drug free lives and or society."
So now you think you know what other people think? Seems a little delusional to me, why don't you at least produce some documentation to back up your statement.
"It is about accepting the fact that the laws are causing several major problems relative to a stubborn percent of the people who insist on doing the drug and they are willing to break the laws and ignore the criticisms and ignore any of the negatives."
You haven't even produced one statement or study regarding the so-called "negatives". And if the laws weren't so unjust and rascist people wouldn't feel so easily compelled to break them. But they are unjust and the criticisms baseless and full of false reasoning.
"Your statistics are in favour of legalisation because people agree that other people should not be going to jail because of marijuana consumption."
Its called non-violent crime, and it is no reason to lock someone away.
"It does not mean that most people WANT more non essential, recreational drugs in their lives or to be around the consumption and or have the drug easily available for all the more people to consume."
That is a matter of perspective, because that is exactly what will happen and most everyone knows it.
"It is their choice to oppose it and they have just as many valid reasons to oppose it as you do reasons for consuming it and or defending it."
Yes but their reasons for opposing it are unjust and impose their beliefs on cannabis users, whereas cannabis users are not trying to force other people to take cannabis, they merely want unfettered access to the God given herb.
"You have your criticisms about a lot of other issues as do many others so you can expect critizism and opposition to your beliefs also."
I certainly do expect your weak criticism, but what I would like would be some constructive criticism, instead of false and misleading critism that is seemingly baseless.
"If you are a user of non essential drugs, for recreational puposes you are going to hear critizisms and feel the opposition to the drug consumption...for ever."
I will fight for peoples rights to consume cannabis even if I cease to take it, because it is the principle of freedom to utilize substances given by the creator that should not be infringed upon. Under no circumstance should a natural herb be restricted.
"If you think people are just going to listen to the complaints and arguments coming from the drug users and accept the drug induced logic about "every aspect" of their personal drug consumption issues then you are wrong."
What do you know about what I think? You only know what I have told you this statement you have made is pure speculation and I am not even sure what exactly you mean by it.
"The majority of people still do not want the drug to be liberally consumed or easily available in the market."
That is not necessarily true according to the Gallup poll link above, obviously legalization(which the majority want) would make it easily available, so you point is false.
"The majority of people want LESS drugs to be avialable, including the medicinal,pharmacuetical drugs that society is becoming more and more dependant upon."
I seriously doubt that, and you have no data to back up your claim, so that is merely your opinion.
"Even the existing pharmacuetical drugs have a whole lot of negatives that come with their consumption and society is already feeling the negatives that comes with their wide spread consumption
This is not my opinion."
Well that is your statement, so it must be your opinion, sorry to be a stickler here, but you have no other source listed. It is merely your opinion and the fact that you are trying to pass it on as someone elses opinion without naming a source shows the delusional aspect of the logic(or lack ther of) that you are utilizing.
"You can use the internet to find hundreds of articles and data based information about the problems associated with the legal drugs."
No kidding, why don't you find some to back up the statements which you say are not your opinion and we will see the veracity of such internet articles and the funding surrounding such rhetoric.
"Marijuana consumption does not help the existing drug related problems ..it increases the problems."
Another baseless claim of speculation with no source other than your own opinion, which is dubious considering your fallacious and tenuous line of reasoning laid out in this thread.
"But you may not see it that way...but many do and it is not based on ignorance of the drug and its history.It is based on what they observe and or the knowledge that the drug consumption comes with its negatives and they dont want any further problems in their lives."
Oh? and what further problems have been caused by cannabis? If anything it is the other way around. Making cannabis illegal has created a tremendous burden on society. The prisons are full of non-violent people. Minorities have been discriminated against. Children taken away from their loving families, An industrial crop with numerous uses and the ability to create a sustainable society has been banned, etc. All in the name of a bunch of self-righteous delusional people who think they are saving society by making a God given natural herb illegal.
"Apparantly you and most other drug consumers argue there are no problems."
Well I can't address this statement you have made because it is vague and unspecific. I can also relay that it is has false attributes of stereotype which I have previously addressed.
"Other people that oppose "Increased" drug consumption and or adding more drugs to the list of drugs avaialable for liberal consumption are being told they are wrong and vilified for their opposition to recreational drug consumption and or wrong for trying to curb the consumption of non essential drugs used for recreational purposes."
The problem is in the terms that you and those that oppose a natural herb like cannabis lack specific logic and realistic analysis of the facts. And all the unjust and fallacious reasoning that your ilk utilize in your ill concieved goal to somehow place the blame of the ills of society solely on drugs, rather than viewing it as a symptoms of the greater problems that exist.
"Go ahead and consume all you want and I will carry on critizing the drug consumer and their conduct and their mentality and their attitude about the drug and their beliefs that the drug can be consumed without any problems and there is nothing wrong with consuming it to get stoned on and often enough as stoned as stoned can be."
I too, will continue to criticize your delusional statements, the misleading nature of your rhetoric and the injustice surrounding the restriction of a God given natural herb.
"8 And Stephen, full of faith[a] and power, did great wonders and signs among the people. 9 Then there arose some from what is called the Synagogue of the Freedmen (Cyrenians, Alexandrians, and those from Cilicia and Asia), disputing with Stephen. 10 And they were not able to resist the wisdom and the Spirit by which he spoke. 11 Then they secretly induced men to say, “We have heard him speak blasphemous words against Moses and God.” 12 And they stirred up the people, the elders, and the scribes; and they came upon him, seized him, and brought him to the council. 13 They also set up false witnesses who said, “This man does not cease to speak blasphemous[b] words against this holy place and the law; 14 for we have heard him say that this Jesus of Nazareth will destroy this place and change the customs which Moses delivered to us.” 15 And all who sat in the council, looking steadfastly at him, saw his face as the face of an angel."
"I will fire you if you bring it on the construction jobsite or consume it on the construction jobsite and endanger the lives of the other workers. I will have you drug tested before I hire you and if you prove positive for the drug I will not be hiring you."
That is good for you. It is your choice and right to do so. I doubt I would want to work for you anyway, your messages don't seem that competent, so I can only imagine your mangerial style must be seriously lacking as well.
"While it is still illegal, if you get caught by law enforcement then I will not be feeling sorry for you."
I wouldn't want you to feel sorry for me, and I certainly would not feel sorry for myself, I will overcome any adversity that you and your ilk try to put on me. I have dealt with alot in this life already and I'm not about to let an insignificant jail sentence or a fine stop me from exercising my God given right.
"I would rather you be financially penalised rather than go to prison but I will not be feeling sorry for you...and neither will most others...the same way you do not pay attention to people who pay penalties or go to prison for breaking any of the many other laws that you personally agree with and want enforced."
I will also not feel sorry for you when the system comes back on you and restricts your rights, because you have been warned of the injustice of the system, and yet you go along to get along, rather than oppose such injustice.
"After it is legalised and you are allowed to consume it legally I will still oppose its consumption same as there is wide spread critizism and opposition to alcohol consumption and tobacco consumption."
That is your right to do so. I will oppose any other draconian law that you bring to the table that defies the principles of truth and justice.
"I will be happy that people are not going to prison for its consumption...but I will still oppose its consumption.
If you break the new existing laws related to marijuana supply or marijuana consumption I will still not be feeling sorry for you and I will still be telling you do not consume the drugs for recreational uses."
I'm glad you will be happy. And I will continue to expose the injustices involved in such restrictive laws.
"The major difference between you and me and the drug consumers is simply this:
As long as there is consumption there will always be laws and or rules and regulations and or rules of drug consumption decorum attached to the consumption of the NON ESSENTIAL drugs consumed for recreational puposes.
For the drug consumers, If and when they bend those rules or break those laws and the laws are enforced in any way, whether it be penalites of some sort or prison time, if that is the case, then it will be you and or the other drug consumers who will be suffering the law enforced penalties from your consumption."
This is the common misconception of drug law enforcement. When people are unjustly convicted of a crime that is unjust, all of society pays the price, whether it be in court costs or jail time, all those funds come out of the pockets of tax payers who support the injustice of the system through their compliance.
"It will not be me who pays any penalties and or goes to prison because, as you already know, I do not consume the drugs and or have anything to with their consumption."
Yet you support a system with your tax dollars that is unjust and racially and socially bias toward those of a different cultural subset that do not agree with your ill concieved laws.
"It will not be me who pays any penalties and or goes to prison because, as you already know, I do not consume the drugs and or have anything to with their consumption."
Who doesn't want laws changed that are not just? Only tyrants and delusional fools would want such laws to continue.
"Until they are changed in favour of legal drug consumption you are more than free to challenge the laws and take the chance that you will feel the discomfort of the laws if and when you do get caught breaking them.
If that is the case it will be you that suffers the penalties...not me."
Another common misconception of injustice. We all pay the price when justice is not served, and according to your messages you seem to be all for injustice and racial/cultural oppression.
"You can cry all you want about the injustices of drug related law enforcement as it stands now and many will continue to cry about the injustices of the future laws attached to the non essential consumption of mariajana for recreational puposes.
That is for certain....people will never be happy about law enforcement when it is applied to them."
The difference is by the very principle of the laws of restriction are unjust, and I rightfully complain about such laws and oppose them based on such principles. And I do cry out and say these laws are unjust, rascist, and defy God given rights. The one thing I can say as result of our debate is that discontinuing the use of marijuana may not have helped you attention to detail, seeing as the majority of your statements tend to contian blatant mis-spellings. That does not say much for the overall increased perception you should have according to your supposed "lucid" existence. meanwhile as THC, CBDs, and CBNs coarse through my veins I rarely miss such details. Kind of ironic don't you think?
"Meantime if you are a illegal drug consumer and you get caught you will suffer some sort of negative ramifications and you will not be happy at all about those negative ramifications."
You are absolutely right there is no reason I should be happy for being treated unjustly as a result of exercising my God give right to consume any natural herb. I am rightly insensed by such laws which defy the laws of God the Universal Force of Good that is always true and just.
"It will be you, Not me and that is what seperates us."
And that is a good thing, because I have principles that are sound and faith in truth and justice that will be victorious in the final equation, I fear no foe. I wish you the best, but I am afraid the principles of injustice laid out by your ilk will ultimately be your downfall.
"If you want to chance being penalised and or serving prison time then go right ahead and confront the existing laws and or the future laws.
Either way it will be you that suffers the penalties...not me."
Unlike you I am not going to simply stand by the wayside and watch the injustice continue. I believe in the just cause of legalization of cannabis and its various uses which will be far more beneficial to society than its current restriction. I accept any adversity as a sign that the system is in fear of freedom of the individual and the power of the Universal force of good which will be triumphant.
"I will be on the outside while you could very well be on the inside of a jail cell or prison."
And yet even within a jail cell or prison I will know I have done the right and just thing, and have not compromised my principles out of a fear of unjust retribution by a system that is based on the love of money, as opposed to one that has a foundation of truth, justice, and compassion.
"If you are a legitimate medicinal users then I hope it helps you ...as long as you abide by the rules and regulations and decorum of medical marjuana consumption then it is OK by me."
This statement does not ring true considering your overall talking points. Your over all message is confusing and disjointed if this quote is taken into account. It merely magnifies your lack of a cohesive stance regarding the real issues surrounding cannabis leaglization.
"54 When they heard these things they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed at him with their teeth. 55 But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, 56 and said, “Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!”
57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, stopped their ears, and ran at him with one accord; 58 and they cast him out of the city and stoned him. And the witnesses laid down their clothes at the feet of a young man named Saul. 59 And they stoned Stephen as he was calling on God and saying, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” 60 Then he knelt down and cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not charge them with this sin.” And when he had said this, he fell asleep."
"You have gone and proven yourself to be a drug induced, drug seduced, religious zealot that actually believes society is better off consuming drugs and alcohol and tobacco and all the other drug related crap that is available....legal or illegal."
Blatant misrepresentation.
"You actually think the freedom of people to do what ever they please, including the drugs and be what ever way they want to be and do what ever they please "while stoned" is the way to go because it is their god given right to do so."
More blatant misrepresentation. This just goes to show the ignorant reasoning behind your posts.
"he big, bad government wants you to not consume the drug and you and the druggies can not except that particular law...but you abide by most of the other laws. I would assume you abide by most other laws and you like law and order and peace and quite..But when it comes to drug consumption???...well...that particular aspect of the law you can not bring yourself to abide by."
I follow laws that are just and reasonable. Not rascist bigotted laws that try to supercede natural rights. And are utilized to oppress minorities.
"HMMMM...IF GOD said it was a sin to consume it then I guess you would do ...what????....not consume it because God said so???"
Speculate with your meaningless hypotheticals, but fact is the principles collated in the book of Genesis lay out the law of primacy, that is law that is inalienable.
"What I hear you are saying, in effect, is you are a religious man, because you keep on using religious quotes in your submissions?"
Well you can hear whatever you want, but the fact is that I am a law abiding natural person that follows laws that are reasonable and not tyrannical, rascist, and unjust laws. Those laws are laid out in an ancient text called Genesis.
"It seems to me, by way of reading your submissions, you think your local church and your pastor supports your drug consumption and the church would agree that marijuana is GOOD,GOOD, GOOD for the citizens and community?"
Well it also seems to you that cannabis is a harmful drug, so your explanation of your perception of me seems all the more irrelevant considering.
"By what you are saying by way of your religious smoke screen you believe God gave you the right to smoke the drug and God supports the use of drugs.
Why all the religious mumbo jumbo and religious rhetoric??"
Yeah, that's your flawed perspective and continued misrepresentation, that is akin to yellow journalism that was utilized to make a widely used herb called cannabis into a "drug" at the whim of a greedy industrialist. Is that who you represent?
"If your local pastor told you to give up the drugs and or showed you some of the problems he has inherited in the community concerning local drug consumption would you listen to him if he opposed your drug consumption.
I somehow assume not."
The law is encoded in the book, I can read that for myself and I don't need a pastor to tell me what it means. But again you are reaching here and proving you have no real argument, only vague hypotheticals that aren't reasonable anyway.
"Maybe, one day you should all be selling your marijuana through the local church organizations and it will be blessed by god and people would be willing to pay more for "Blessed Marijuana""
It's already blessed by God, as it is made by the Creator. Another worthless hypothetical where you try to use indirect humiliation, only to fail. At least try and give some reasonable hypotheticals.
"The drug is what you want and the drug has affected your brain to the point it has you believing it is all about civil rights and how the big, bad government is infringing on your rights."
That is real funny. Perhaps it is the lack of the nutrients that are provided in cannabis that makes your perception as reflected in your messages dim as opposed to lucid.
"Like I said before many times:
I want it to be legalized and then we know who to blame for the problems connected to drug consumption. We already know abut the problems associated with the already legal drugs and the companies who push the drugs and the people who are responsible for those problems so it will be easier to know who to blame and make legally responsible. That would be you and all the other druggies and alcohol seduced sheep who actually think you need the drugs and or alcohol in their lives based on your right to consume them...no matter what the ramifications.
The drug is what you lust for and your end goal but your civil rights are what you use to argue in favor of the drug consumption."
You have no idea what my end goal is, as determined by the delusional statement above. The end goal is Life, Love and Truth. Not oppression and Lies, which your messages show you are in no shortage of.
"As if the drug itself and NON ESSENTIAL drug consumption is that critically important to society and citizens that people have to listen to the misguided civil rights BS argument in support of more drug consumption."
It's based on principles, and it goes far beyond civil rights, these are natural rights, inalienable rights, human rights. You are the one with BS misguided argument, lets face the facts, Your argument is NON ESSENTIAL and lacks any real basis other than your distorted opinion.
"My right to be a druggie or stoner or alcoholic and I will fight for that right!
HMMMM.....Such great aspirations and a valiant, noble cause worth fighting for."
Hey that's your choice if you want to struggle for something so superficial I'm not going to stop you.
"When the financial cost and the social costs of legal marijuana consumption are calculated, recorded and realized we will still know you are one of the percent that causes the associated costs and the associated problems."
Ok, we will see about that, but I doubt there will truly be freedom regarding the use of herbs, most likely it will be a manipulated system that will prove nothing other than prove that principles of natural inalienable rights are continually being violated.
"You have proven in your submission that you ignore any of the negatives when you say: "Prove them to me""
Hey you are the one with a negative perspective regarding herbs, don't try and put this on me.
"Any person who does know as much about the drugs as they say they do will have the common sense to acknowledge and or agree the drugs have their associated problems ...but nope!.... you blindly argue the drug is harmless and nothing but good comes from the drug."
More stupid reasoning and misrepresentation, if you think something is negative speak out specifically about what you mean, and stop your ignorant fishing expedition.
"When I hear the druggies admit there are associated problems with the drug consumption and the drug is far from innocent then I could begin to respect the argument."
This argument is not for your benefit, because you have been found to distort the truth and the reality of natural herbs and their uses.
"But like all drug consumers they want to point out one side of the argument while not acknowledging the negatives of drug consumption."
ALL CONSUMPTION HAS IT'S "NEGATIVES".
"I have yet to hear a drug consumer actually admit the drug comes with various negatives and detriments to society rather than feign innocence all the time while ignoring any of the associated problems."
I have yet to read a coherent analysis of any detriments or negatives by anti-herbal goose-steppers., where they actually admit that herbs are an important part of human existence.
"More like you should be proving to the other citizens that you are safe when on drugs and a responsible person and try to prove to everyone the drug is not harmless and does not come with any problems.
I do not need to answer to you as I am not the one consuming the NON ESSENTIAL drug that most people do not want around them."
That doesn't even make sense.
"I could post dozens of websites that clearly show the negatives involved with the consumption of the drug but I am not going to because I already know you are going to ignore them...completely."
I doubt you would. Because that would actually show how much more ridiculous your argument is.
"I have read most of them and I have read the good aspects related to the consumption and I have read about the negative aspects related to the consumption.
I have dozens of websites kept as favorites and I review them all the time."
Prove it.
"But what is the use of showing information to the drug consumer when the drug consumers simply ignore the information."
I am not the only one that reads this, but evidently you haven't figured that out. Ironic isn't it that you try and criticize me for taking a natural herb that is proven to be benign interms of intelligence and cognition, yet you fail at the simplest tasks of reasoning.
http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/2001/10.11/marijuana.html
"That is one of the "Main Trademarks" that drug consumers and alcoholics are noted for: Their continual refusal to acknowledge that the drug has negatives and the negative effects on society."
You might as well say that every substance has negative effects on society, because if you think about it reasonablly that is the truth.
"I guess you missed all the OTHER data and information and reports by government officials around the world and the loads of unbiased research supplied by organizations that point out the good and the bad."
That is laughable, because NO research is UNBIASED and any one that tells you the contrary is a liar.
"I guess all the millions of people who have a true, real life story to tell about drug consumption and the negatives involved and how their lives and people around them where negatively affected by the drugs and their drug consumption, are to be ignored in favor of continued drug consumption...or at least yours."
If that is what you guess, I'm not going to stop you from your delusional reasoning. But I will say that if they had administered the herb properly the so-called negatives would not be an issue.
"Every drug consumer I have ever known does not want to hear the negatives."
Well maybe you should get to know more people. Regardless I find this statement you have made hard to believe. What about all the warnings on the Big Pharma Commercials, are you saying consumers don't want those messages?
"The personal positive aspects are acknowledged by the drug consumer and used in the argument in support of drug consumption.
The other side of the argument is dismissed as naive and ignorant and biased about the drug and everything the drug entails. The drug users seem to be proud of their drug consumption and welcome all the more of it."
Pure speculation and a blatant lie.
"All is blissful in the world of drug consumption according to the drug users. Any negative data and or facts just ruins the fun to be had anyhow so why would the drug user actually listen.
Another significant hallmark of the drug consumer....no need to listen to the opposition propaganda...what do they know anyhow?"
Really? That's what you think? Seriously?
"The responsibility is on you and your drug consuming buddies that you are not going to cause any problems at all for anyone with your drug consuming activities."
You can't even point out any real problems that can be directly attributed to the use of herbs.
"Because you say the drug is all good while you ignore the negative aspects of the drug consumption. Because you say so, then any associated problems do not exist and we should all follow you down the path of drug consumption glory and we will all be forever happy and blessed by god for our drug consuming ways and drug seduced lives."
More ridiculous misrepresentaion of the facts, trying to blame everything on herbs, instead of taking responsibility for its use...very typical paradigm that lame stream society is religious(attached to) about.
"I am certain God and or Jesus did not want his devoted followers to be druggies and alcoholics and be habitual consumers of drug substances such as marijuana."
Well I am certain that your perception and understanding of the issue is distorted by the total lack of understanding of the nuances of substances and the conditions of their existence, and how they relate to natural law.
"I am certain God and Jesus wants his followers to be lucid drug free individuals and not be addicted to any non essential drugs."
Why don't you point out some teachings that state that precisely....Who deems which "drugs" are "non essential"? Be specific. Your certainty is unfounded opinion why don't you list some scriptures to back up your opinion and we can address those individually.
"We should all aspire to consume drugs and challenge the governments and law enforcement so people can consume the glorious drugs and be part of the admirable drug consumtion culture."
If thats what you want to do then go for it.
"HMMMMM.....A great and noble cause if ever there was one...Not?"
Hey you said it.
"Find a better cause and give up the support of the Non Essential drug consumption and get a real life...not one that is drug seduced and drug induced all the time."
Looks like if you don't give up eating chocolate, sugar, etc then you appear to be a hypocrit. Your nebulous use of the word "drug" degrades any real meaning behind your argument. Because you cannot be specific your arguments are unscientific and lack any real value. Good Job! You have proven what is essentially nothing, other than you don't have a very good argument.