Re: Faith in God

I get your point. I do believe that God uses suffering especially to bring us to Him and to help us grow in Him. In fact, it is absolutely essential that we go through immense suffering as the Christ wins the war over sin and hell within us. As Christ says, you have to lose your life completely to gain it, that is not going to be a fun process. But I do believe that God wants us to overcome our sin and suffering and dwell completely in Him and that is the end of all suffering. I believe we can live like that while still in this physical body and I believe God wants that for us. Let me comment a little on some of those scriptures.

'More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.'

If you are rejoicing in your suffering, then that is not really suffering, is it? To me that is describing someone that has completely overcome suffering if they can rejoice in it. There is always going to be some type of suffering in this world, be it physical or difficult circumstances, but when God changes our heart to the mindset of living in His bliss, that is the end of all suffering.

'And after you have suffered a little while, the God of all grace, who has called you to his eternal glory in Christ, will himself restore, confirm, strengthen, and establish you.'

First comes the suffering, the struggle as one surrenders to Christ, then comes the glory of Christ and peace.

'Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery trial when it comes upon you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you. But rejoice insofar as you share Christ's sufferings, that you may also rejoice and be glad when his glory is revealed. If you are insulted for the name of Christ, you are blessed, because the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you. But let none of you suffer as a murderer or a thief or an evildoer or as a meddler. Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in that name. ...'

Yes, all believers must endure the fiery trial. Again, first is the suffering, then is the glory of God revealed. As far as suffering due to being persecuted as a Christian. God is very clear in various scriptures that we are rewarded for enduring persecutions and suffering for His sake, but to me that doesn't mean we should go out and seek suffering for His sake on purpose.

If you re-read almost all of these scriptures, they say we go through the suffering to get to the glory and peace of God. Now you may think that God doesn't want that for us until after we die and come to Him, but I believe He wants that for us now. He wants us to go through the trial of fire now in this life and come out on the other side where even things that should cause suffering in us, no longer cause suffering. Christ is the end of all suffering. How much fruit can one bear if they are miserable and unhappy, are people going to look at them as a steward of Christ? But if we rejoice in all things even things that should cause suffering all people will look to you and beg for you to share Christ and you will bear so much fruit.

I believe that God wants us to seek out joy not suffering. And not just joy like happiness that comes and goes but the bliss that occurs from abiding in Christ every second of every day. Yes, we all must endure the suffering that brings us to Christ in the first place and we all must endure the trial by fire, not just the test of faith but the trial of transformation, but Christ wants us to rejoice in Him with no suffering in our heart.

I hope that you can change your mindset regarding this point, because as long as you think that God wants us to suffer, that is what you will seek out in your heart (even if you are not aware that is what you are seeking).