You have been thoroughly checked out right? So there is no organic problems. The Liver Flush has upset the perastalsis action of the bowel, & caused I.B.S.
Part of your bowel is working as normal, but the rest isnt. Just imagine a major tunnel with traffic moving thru it ,& suddenly some guy has a blown tyre. Everything grinds to a halt in the same lane he is in, then they try to move over into the other lanes which slows everything down or causes a complete traffic snarl. This is what causes the pain ,bloating, headaches & everything else. Its bloody awful, I know I,ve had it!
You need something to reduce the congestion caused by the "blown tyre" & then to tell the "tunnel police" that all lanes are clear & ready to take traffic again.
In other words, you need something to reduce the inflammation in the gut caused by the build up of faeces, fermenting gases, & over production of anaerobic bacteria, & possible fungal/yeast infection. You also need something to tell the brain that every thing is quite normal, not to worry anymore, & restore the traffic flow to normal.
"No worries ,she`ll be right,"as we say in Australia.
All I am really allowed to say is "Give MANGOSTEEN juice a try, you may LOVE the results.

Please check out our websites & then contact our first Canadian supplier! sanj@uniserve.com

http://usenature.com/mangosteen.htm

http://www.gomangosteen.com/members/magixango
http:// http://www.mangosteenMD.com
http:// http://wwwpubmed.com (type in 'Xanthones/mangosteen'

Hi. I hope you check back on your post to read what I have to say. I'm sorry you have been through so much with your health, and I can see why doing this flush has further aggrivated you and your health. I don't remember reading that you had done an intensive bowel cleansing prior to the liver flush. In your situation, it sounds like that would have made all the difference. I realize at this point that you are scared of doing "intensive" procedures, but I have to ask you...Is it worth it to live with all the pain? If you have ever read any of Dr. Schulze 's information, he shares the proper way to cleanse, always starting with the bowel because there may be blockages in your colon that will still be present when trying to cleanse the liver. I would really recommend his cleanses, as they are not flushes that are typically posted on here. Most people need to take a week to cleanse both the bowel, followed by the liver, and even the kidneys, if you desire. These miracle flushes are too fast and too strong for most, and it is important to follow a proven protocol. Please take some time and look at some of his info. There are forums on this site, and you can call 1-800-herbdoc for information. I really think it could change your life, and I would hate to see you get totally turned off toward natural, herbal alternatives because of this bad experience. LISA

The only thing I can think of is that you have developed an allergy to something that you have consummed and that you now have an IBS type of reaction to something that you are consumming regularily and therefore have these constant symptoms.
Since it started 2 days after the cleanse and not immediately afterward, I doubt that the cleanse has anything to do with it. A friend of mine had a similar problem for years and doctors couldn't find the cause. I know how to do muscle response testing for allergies and sensitivities and convinced her to let me try and within a short time we discovered she was sensitive to butter. She was fine with milk and other dairy products but not butter which was strange. However, after A NAET treatment to eliminate that allergy, she has not had those symptoms again. I would suggest you find someone who can do this testing and find the cause of your symptoms. NAET (Nambudripad's Allergy Elimination Technique) doesn't work for everyone but it has done wonders for me and others I know. Check out the link below for more info.

http://www.naet.com

I am sorry that you had a set back in your quest to help yourself with natural healing. I have been studying natural healing intensively for over 10 years. All the posts for your message cause me to remember how overwhelming it is when one first embarks on a search for natural healing methods. IT took many years before I felt that I had founds methods that passed my tests for gentleness, naturalness and effectiveness/safety. Along the way I have ended up helping people that trusted me and learned thru them as well. My husband died of Agent Orange cancer, my Godfather died of colorectal cancer, my brother was diagnosed with MS last month and my mate has diabetes, high blood pressure, severe osteo arthritis, I have a 6 a 10 and a 15 year old and there are others. During the last 2 years I have come to some important conclusions and realized better ways to help and no longer feel so helpless in the face of so much available knowledge. When the children are older, I hope to enroll in homeopathic school/medical training. I do not want a degree, just more knowledge

1 disease = 1,000 causes.
1,000 causes = 1 disease.

After having explained to many people how to use natural healing methods and why they work and why it is that their alleopathic physician was taking them down the wrong road, I have gotten good at it I think. It is simple but takes work.

Our bodies have been designed with lots of healing mechanisms
that work on their own if you give them the correct fuel
and lubrication. We are designed to be well, not sick or hurting. If you think of this as the basic premise
of natural healing, then it follows that if you could just give your body's healing machines the correct fuel, then they will heal you no matter what is wrong or what your symptoms. The exception being of course serious or mechanical injury for which we of course then need the alleopathic physician. (emergency room)

So the big question is, what is the correct fuel? That is where lots of people get lost. You seem to have researched organic and healthy foods so you have that bridge crossed, just probably need to work on it more like all of us (even me).
You did not mention water, to me it is the most important fuel and is one of the biggest shortages if not the largest deficiency that I have found in people.
In todays age of depleted soils and plants/food it would be difficult to procure all the needed mineral/vitamin fuels just by eating food. After years of research, I have settled on a product (no I do not sell it) Solaray Vita-Prime for Women or Solaray Vita prime for men. I have discovered that Vit. C buffered complex does work to keep us healthy and prevent viruses and bacterial infections and my conclusion it should be taken daily to bowl tolerance (see book by Maureen Kennedy Salaman-All Your Health Questions Answered Naturally). When I come to people who are very weak or a situation where I think they may not be able to digest capsules for a certain reason, than I recommend liquid minerals and vitamins and again I have brand that I use for a lots of reasons. But.... and this is a big but, you cannot expect to take just vit./mineral supplents and not eat food, without food, you cannot heal. Important, if you take a Solaray Vita-prime capsule without food in your stomach, you will not like it, they are very powerful but cannot hurt you. I can explain further why they are a particular choice but that takes a lot of space.

Each person's body is so very different, and now in my wisdom I anticipate possible negative reactions to the methods that I have used for so long because there is always that very slight possibility. Because of such reactions, I have slowly but surely adapted ever more gentle ways. I use homeopathy, herbs, DGL, progestin (natural only), quercetin, castor oil, vinegar, honey comb, epson salts, oregano oil, pro-biotics, Colloidal Silver , yoga, exersize plus more.
These things I use to alleviate pain and give the healing machines a boost so as to tilt the battle in their direction so to speak. It would be helpful if you had someone to guide you in your learning about natural healing. When I help people, they often have problems or questions that come up when using the products that are new to them and it takes knowledge to use the correct "tool" at that particular spot in that person's recovery.

I believe that if you are still experiencing intestinal pains/discomfort and have the energy to try a little more, you need relief from your pain NOW. DGL or Deglycyrrhizinated Licorice extract is a gentle chewable tablet that when chewed approx. 15 min. before a meal stimulates product of mucus in the intestinatl tract. This mucus is healing and stops pain, (it is your own mucus). Yes the tablet tastes stongly of licorice, it must be mentioned that plain licorice does raise blood pressure but the de-glycyrrhized form does not raise blood pressure. Because it is so harmless and gentle, perhaps you can found the courage to try it for approx. 1 week before meals and see if you can get rid of some pain. I tell you this, my fiance had bleeding ulcers as seen on a camera that was slipped down into his gut. We did the prescription anti-biotics and prescription proton pump inhibitor (acid pump stopper) just like the "Dr." prescribed and when they put the camera down again, the bleeding holes were bigger than ever. That is when I put my foot down and said, MY WAY now. We did the DGL, he healed up fine and they have not come back (the bleeding ulcers). Meanwhile you can work on two other simple gentle things. 1)Water,water water, I have learned that especially with sensitive more reactive people, if you get into distress anywhere in your stomach area, at times simply drinking a full glass of water will lessen the problem.
2) Multi-vitamin from above plus Vit. C to bowel tolerance and you will have to be extra careful here, please understand bowel tolerance before you start to try vit. C, you can get loose bowels very easily, they are not harmful per se but may cause you extra discomfort.

Very important, you said you tried pro-biotics. I have learned they are not all created equally. Acidophilus is okay but the product that I have in mind is much more effective and gentle. I do not sell it. It is by Garden of Life, "Primal Defense". It contains not only good bacteria but enzymes as well. It is very expensive but can last a long time if used as a tool (I take as maintenance 1 or 2 per week). A caution here, take your first one (one only) on a day when it will not matter if you have discomfort. If you are truely dysbiotic (the bad bacteria far outweigh the good bacteria) in your intestines, you will start a small war. The good bacteria should win over the bad but that will produce dead bodies and possible gas and loud rumblings. Tough it out and the next time that you take a capsule, it should go a lot smoother. The next morning after your first capsule, remembet to take a check on how you feel (should feel a good difference). I cannot stress enough the gut bacteria balance is so important. Please read the book by Jordan Ruban "Patient Heal Thyself". IT address all bowel issues and explains quite scientifully how to cure bowel problem (1,000 diseases, 1 cause).

Here is a hard part for lots of people. All of us have better intestinal health if we WALK. WALK. WALK. Like horses, their vascular system is so large that if they cannot pump their blood
thru their body and move their intestines by walking, they slowly die. When we do rythemic strides of walking, it moves our blood and intestines in a way that cannot be duplicated. Any one in serious health condition, needs to start walking asap and continue for life, I cannot stress this enough.

I believe strongley that you should do a saliva test for hormone levels (estradial/progesterone) after reading the Dr. John R. Lee book or visit the web site. Each woman that we test is estrogen dominant (approx. 10 of us so far). Some women have concured problems similiar to yours (before your flush) simply by using the progesterone cream and taking the multi vitamin because the multi-vitamin has Iodine in it and this gives your body the fuel it needs to make hormones correctly. And yes, I have found hormone imbalance to cause a wide range of problem including all of yours, I know it sounds far out but I have experience with it.

Last but not least, I believe that Dr. Hulda Clark is at the top of the natural healing game, she pulls no punches and she is right. If you have metal/silver fillings you may not get rid of all of your problems until they are correctly replaced
I'm sorry about that, it is hard and expensive but very important. LIfe is too short to not try, you deserve to be pain free, happy, good life. I know that if you can keep on the correct vitamins/vit. c/water and exersize you can begin healing slowly and surely and it will be taking place in your body even 4 to 6 years from now, you are on the right track, it will happen, my ways take longer than some others, but they are gentler.
"Physician- first do no harm" Hippocrocates

I have never posted like this before anywhere, I hope it helps someone, I am glad curezone is here, just started reading it last month. I do know that our medical system is not practicing the higest forms of medicine and we must search for the answers ourselves and help each other. I was a scientist first, and all my knowledge is backed up with careful research and using my family and friends as guinea pigs and since then I have branched out and am so grateful when people trust me and I can help them.

Everyone, remember, don't slueth and study trying to find the one answer to your health problem. There is usually not one answer and sometimes they are not quick. If you do not fix the problem with the first try, there are lots more natural ways to try and you can find the answer, nothing is incurable, we are not designed to be sick.

Being a Colon Therapist and a Nutritionist. I may be able to help you.
Most persons including Hulda Clark , Dr. Schultz use very harsh herbs to try to remove the waste from the colon in a short amount of time. Most people when they learn about alternative health and all the gunk that is accumulated in the intestines and tissues try to get rid of it ASAP. For some this works and others not. depends on what other damage has been done. You mentioned you did not have your current sitiation in the past.
By cleaning out all the old waste you created an irritable bowel by over stimulating the central nervous system which does relate to your bowels.You now have the empty pockets where your exixting waste was removed from. You did have an existing condition before you started all the detox. Now you have a situation that caused the condition before you started. There is a formula that may help you with your irritable bowel situation. It is calle Intesinal Soothe And Build. You can can read mor eabout it on www.mynsp.com/dancells
go to products A-Z and click on the letter I scroll down until you find Intestinal Soothe and Build clik for further info.
Let me know if you need further help dancingcells@aol.com
Sincerely Ilona

you wrote:

---
allopathic drs. were zero help, from various ailments that have plagued me for many years, i am 31 yrs old now:

-migraines for 20+ years
-chronic fatigue for 7yrs
-neck/shoulder/back pain for 8yrs
-depression/anxiety for 12 yrs
-chronic pain/fibromyalgia-like

-i changed my diet to include more organic fruits and vegetables, less wheat/gluten containing foods, less dairy. added probiotics, green food supplments, kefir, various other vitamins. increased water intake. more fiber to my diet
-did bowel cleansing with p&b shakes (see Bowel Cleanse Forum ), occasional enemas
-did parasite cleanse
---

first, let me say i am sorry you are hurting.

next, let me say that creating health and a healthy lifestyle can be great fun!

it sounds to me as if you are rather new at self-healing compared to your years on the planet. taking charge of your own health is the most empowering thing you can do. it is absolutely worth doing anything and everything to get well and strong and happy.

it sounds as if you have taken a few steps in that direction when many more are required. true health, real health is not going to a doctor and taking a magic pill, or even a magic herb. genuine, radiant health is a state of mind, a lifestyle.

to do your own healing, you need to become a detective; asking even more questions than a doctor. you need to ask a lot of questions when you want to get well. there are many questions i would ask if it was my body. i'd like to know:

am i willing to be 100% responsible for my health and happiness?
am i willing to do whatever it takes to be truly healthy and happy?
what have i done so far?
what is it going to take?
how am i thinking about myself and my body?
what is my attitude about health/sickness?
am i willing to change my thinking?
am i willing to learn how my thinking affects my body?
am i willing to undergo temporary pain or sense of deprivation
to permanently, truly get OUT of pain and discomfort?

i DID ask myself those questions and have been asking them for many years. and believe me, once i got out of the idea of deprivation, and i got well, the simplest foods tasted absolutely luxurious. my old comfort foods do not even appeal to me any longer. i delight in fruits, vegetables, seeds, nuts. and it's fun to see what i can do with them. if humans had never invented cooked foods, they would have been more creative with raw. we are reinventing the wheel! -- and turning that unhealthy wheel into a healthy one. :)

and for the sake of this forum, i think we need more info to make an evaluation of your situation. rather than saying, 'a Liver Flush ruined my health...', it might be better to say, "oops! i got stuck here -- where do i go now?" there are many experienced and knowledgable people here who have successfully done Liver Flushes colon cleansings, etc and raw foods. you can get good help when you ask.

myself, i'd like to know...

how tall are you?
how much do you weigh?
what did you eat before you started adding some organic foods?
what do you eat now? (a typical day)
what's in your frig? cupboards? freezer?
wha's the first thing you reach for when you get hungry?
do you smoke? drink alcohol? do any drugs?
what is your world view?
are you involved in any philosophy of life that blames/shames/guilts?

now... please excuse my use of words here; they might be a bit clumsy, but you'll get the idea. you see, there may have been something going on in your intestines a long time ago and the cleanses you were doing were dislodging old stuff that might have gotten hung up in the system and was not totally removed because your intestines were not yet fully clear. those Gallstones could have provided some great food for some hungry parasites!!! they might be enjoying them now.

if it was my body i might want to do more colon cleansing and parasite eviction. in fact, i think i'd stick with those two things for a very long time until i felt that i was clear of debris in the colon and clear of all parasites. yep. that's what i would do. and i wouldn't feed those little pests any processed foods -- they LOVE processed foods and fats and sugars and proteins. makes 'em grow big and strong and healthy. the point is to starve them out and never provide them with a medium they might like to live in.

myself? i'd do apples. apples. more apples. as many apples as i could hold. and i'd chew the apple seeds too, to get the laetrile out of them. if i wanted something different for dinner, i'd eat a HUGE DARK GREEN LEAFY salad with lemon juice, olive oil, and LOTS of garlic. i'd do a bit of psyllium husks in water a couple of times a day, work a little flax seeds in there somewhere. to tell you the truth, that is pretty much my daily diet even now. :) and LOTS of herbs to kill those bugs & worms!

what i've been doing is making a smoothie in my blender with a couple of nice apples, water, herbs, psyllium etc. it's gotten to the point where a smoothie without bitter herbs tastes somehow incomplete. :)

robert gray, author of 'the colon health handbook' was a friend of mine and he said that the first priority is to get the colon clean because otherwise, things very well might get hung up there. sometimes, when something is very very dirty, it takes more than one run through the washer before it gets REALLY clean; same thing with the body. and then, once it's clean, you need to nourish your it with only the very simplest and best foods.

if you feel the need for warm food, warm it up -- just don't heat it above 115F. 'warming up to living foods' byelysa markowitz is a nice little book for winter warm foods. raw foods does not necessarily have to be COLD foods. even when i used to eat cooked foods, i rarely ate them 'hot' -- i'd usually let them cool down to room temperature before eating them. cold foods, hot foods, both require extra effort for the body to assimilate.

i usually don't eat things straight out of the frig. now that it's cooler i sometimes put a mixture of things -- like cilentro (helps leach out heavymetals), sunflowerseeds sprouted or sunflower seed cheese, avocado, grated beet or carrot or parsnip, cucumber or zucchini, etc -- on a collard leaf and put it in my dehydrator at 95F for a few minutes, roll it up like a tortilla, and enjoy it very much.

vitamix blenders spin so fast they can make a warm and creamy soup from vegies in a short while. just monitor the warmth so it doesn't get much more than 'warm.'

if we were in nature, we'd be eating VERY simply. NOTHING processed at all. we are only dreaming that we can fully assimilate foods that have been altered from their natural state. and to go from the normal all american diet to a normal all american diet plus a few organic fruits and vegetables and a few cleansings, that is not giving yourself a chance at real health. i'ts like living in a house that has been trashed and vacant for many years and expecting it to be clean and wonderful just becasue we clear a path from the front door to the back. when you clean that house all the way down to the floorboards, wallboards... all the way through, then you have a house that you KNOW and can trust the cleanliness of.

real health in this society requires a big commitment. it is very easy to slip into, 'oh, just one little _____ won't hurt me.' very easy to rationalize and claim to be very very good and concientious. anyone who's walked the walk knows it takes more than a little toe in the water.

i wish you the very best and i pray that for your own sake you will take very good care of yourself. if it was MY body, i'd go on a very simple diet for a very long time. i'd take advantage of all the apples and pears that are growing locally and turn my back on anything more complicated until i was 100% well. but then -- that's how i am -- TOTALLY committed to my own health.

"The sage is never sick becasue he is sick of being sick." -- LaoTsu in "The Tao"

get sick of being sick. it's a great thing to do. :) you'll be glad you did. :) your life will become FUN!!!!!

sincerely, patricia

I think it's important to note that not every cure is going to work for everyone, even if it works for the majority.

I would recommend looking for a traditional Chiropractor in your area. Not only can he help your body heal itself but a traditional Chiropractor will be a promoter of natural alternatives and health issues.

Make sure it's a traditional chiropractor interested in long term benefits and not one that merely addressess symptoms. You can read the differences here: http://www.wellnesschiro.com/2_types_of_chiropractors.htm

Be well...

Hi 5091, First I'll say you have my deepest sympathy. And now you've been just overwhelmed with suggestions. Didn't that just add to your stress?? It did me and I was doing the reading and not considering what ea suggestion might do to me. I've been there with my health and possible solutions. It ran me so low that I didn't do anything. Hardly.

Forget all this for a couple of days (for some relief) and then just pray and ask God to help you make a decision. Don't just blow this off. You may not recognize the "help" immediately so continue to ask.

I"m no religious freak, never have been. But I can relate to your predicament. Will this help? Will that help? Will this make me worse? Don't ya just want to scream? Instead pray for guidance.
Wishing you good health and healing.
marylynn

Drinking some energized water should help. I'd apply some to the painful areas of your body as well. You'll know within a day whether it is working for you or not, and I'm pretty sure that it will. Pat.

http://www.energizedwater.info

You don't sound like you stuck with this. One flush? What you should do is continue to do a flush every other week, along with plenty of Bentonite and psyllium shakes, and I'd just bet that you would feel better soon. Your reaction sounds similar to a "die off" reaction. Do another flush, sounds like you've really got alot of toxins and you only touched the tip of the iceberg.

My experience is similar to your's also and I had NO idea
that I was SO sick when I started colon cleansing, liver flushing,
etc. After some 15 flushes I also developed IBS, which I had
never had before. I started on JUlia Chang's herbs after
talking with her. I followed her advice to the T and then
flushed again about a week later and passed a huge yellow
mass and IBS was GONE. Now, I still get IBS again whenever
a mass or stone is stuck in the common bile duct, so I keep
taking the herbs and doing the flushes and then relief
until the next mass moves forward!

I don't know that you want any advice or suggestions but
my opinion is that if you start Liver Flushing and not
take things to soften the stones (for those of us who are
very sick) and keep Liver Flushing until you are well--
that you will be worse than when you started.

I am on a very strick diet, jump on rebounder, still take
Julia's herbs, apple cider vinegar, have done 30 liver
flushes and have passed literally many masses of green
fat globules, huge worms, huge stones and more. I am
NOT stopping until I am well. Yes, I get discouraged but
from the bottom of my heart I have faith that I WILL get
well thanks to this wonderful site and all the testimonials
I read and all the progress I have made--no more breast
pain, no more sciatic pain, Frozen Shoulder right almost
100% free range of motion, no more Arthritis and more.

I had IBS too prior to flushing and now I no longer suffer from it at all. I believe it left my body after around the 7th - 9th flush and also forgiveness helps......I've forgiven anyone that has ever hurt me in my lifetime and released the pain.......I am getting much better by flushing......around my 9th flush all my labs came back normal except my thyroid but meds were reduced......I was bedridden for a year and a half and got myself out of bed by flushing........my cystic Acne is reduced.......my sinusitis is gone.......just feeling loads better......don't want to tell you what to do but if I were you I'd continue to flush and see what happens......you just might rid yourself of this pain........I've had highs and lows between flushes no real pain though sometimes a dull ache in my left side but that is gone now too. I'm on flush #12 next. After flush 11 I was refreshed with energy to spare this was not always the case, sometimes I would be depressed or lethargic but i've read many posts and this is normal.......sometimes you feel no different but it's good to remember it's part of the process of healing. Good luck to you. god bless.

ok ive done years of research and it soudnds like u might have gotten a stones lodged in your duct, it can be pushed out with another flush.. and it definatley sounds like u need more god bacteria in ur system! get a good enteric coated probiotic with f.o.s, and drink kefir everyday , kefir fights the bad and repopulates , and rebuilds the intestines, this should all be really helpful write back soon keep me updated

When doing the Liver Flushes with epsom salt, olive oil and any type of citrus, there will always be in the bowel movement saponified oil 'stones" that many think are actual gallstones, but when ever we have had them analyzed in the lab, they are not composed of calcium or cholesterol, but primarily are oil that has congealed as a result of the supposed 'liver flush'. Physiologically, the Epsom Salt never travels up the biliary tube, then up to the gallbladder, then up to the liver.
Let me emphasize, those green little objects are congealed olive oil as a result of the bile and the other ingredients. It will cause the gallbladder to go into contractions, and this type of Liver Flush not only cannot cleanse the liver, but has caused actual serious hospitalization cases.