Re: Love versus Attachment

got some time...
so, to take this in parts...

(1)"What part of the individual experiences the near death experince? The mind comes back to the dead body and reenters it. It's the mind that can convey the experience allthough the body was indeed dead for a significant length of time. That would indicate that the mind is the real you (soul). Being able to exist outside of a body."

Language can also get in the way here … so, to avoid confusion, there needs to be an understanding of what certain terms mean…
There is a need to differentiate mind, as a thinking mechanism, from consciousness… or that which is a witnessing consciousness… that which sees without making judgement… reflects as a mirror that which is front of it… it is also the name of that which many people call the soul.

Socrates made this analogy… he has said that “the soul is the seat of the mind”…
now, the seat is that which is sat upon… it is that which the mind sits on…there is a distinct difference between that which is the seat and that which sits on the seat…

Or in this way… whatever is that which can be witnessed cannot be the same as that which is doing the witnessing… means, if you can see that your mind is moving faster than usual…or is more tense than normal… then, it means that there is something behind the mind that sees that it is moving faster… or is more tense… otherwise, if the mind were the real you, to be that ultimate witness, it would not be able to make this distinction that it is moving faster or slower than some other moment in time… or that it is more or less tense than some other time…

What is needed is some way to help one tell the two apart… to see that they are different…
That is what meditation is all about… it is the Science of differentiating between mind and the witnessing consciousness… it is the art of putting the mind aside…
------------------------------

(2)"When the mind comes back into the body the body reignites and can live. It's the mind that has to try to explain what it experienced when the body was dead. Which the mind is incapable of putting words to, yet does indeed see and feel the essense of absolute love from something apparently outside of itself."

It is my understanding that consciousness is the witnessing, is the seeing… returning to the body-mind mechanism… there is no need to put the experience into words… the existential experience is enough unto itself…

the mind is not capable of seeing not capable of feeling… it is good at getting in the way of seeing… of creating clouds and making the seeing of reality, as it is, unclear… it is not capable of feeling… it is good at imagining it sees and feels … and good at pretending it sees and it feels. It is a thinking mechanism, always wanting to explain things because this is the function of what mind does… it is a chatter box... it likes to dissect things and analyze… it is good at dividing things into two… into good and bad … into right and wrong… hence, the world is a duality… it does a good job at helping the body survive in the outside world… it is the mind that likes to claim it knows… and knows it all... mind is perfectly capable of putting experiences into words but when it does this, experiencing reality ends and experiencing reality blended with distortions caused by mind activity begins... with the activity of the mind entering, experiencing reality as it is immediately becomes polluted, that which is described with words is no longer the same... it has become unreal… it has become a fiction… whatever explanation that it comes up with is distinctly separate from truth…
-------------------------------

(3)“Yet, you, the soul (mind), HAVE to be part and parcel of the love that you experience outside of the body when the body is dead. Unless it's the body that generates that love when you're in a body. Make sense???”

It is my understanding that the near death experience has no mind involved in it… it is a pure conscious reflection of what transpires… without mind present, 'being' arises in its full glory… a connection is realized, the connection to the very source from which all beings arise… love is consciousness is godliness
---------------------------------

(4)“And mentally people can "tune into" that essense quite deliberately. I do it all the time when working on patients. And, No, I can't explain how I do it. But its a two edge sword. There IS an energy transfer when contact is made. Yes, I can and do tune into whatever problems the patient has which helps and directs me to the necessary mechanical corrections, but they also seem to drain some of my energy. Especially if real sick.”

I feel that to be more correct to say it in this way: consciously you may be able to “tune in” through a way of putting the mind aside momentarily… this is something that you may not be aware that you are doing because you are not clear in distinguishing mind from the witnessing consciousness…

I feel that many who say they see future events, and their predictions fail to come true… also are failing to make this distinction between what is actually witnessed and what part the mind is adding to the witnessed vision. There is somewhat of a mixture of the two…unless one is absolutely crystal clear in making this distinction…

If you were to experiment with meditation this gift of yours may be enhanced for you to some degree and you may possibly come to understand how you are allowing this to happen… coming to this understanding may help prevent the sick person from affecting you also...
although, I have heard that Gurdjieff was also able to take the sickness out of people and absorb this sickness and dispel it later, after some time... i believe it is reported that he almost died himself after saving the life of a close friend... not sure about this, so it may be just a tale of gossip...

But it may be wise for you to take a good shower after your treating a very sick patient... it would help wash away any energy that is negative...
I have heard and witnessed that one should be especially cautious when being around people that are on the verge of death...at the time of their death... much negative and repressed emotional crap can leave the body-mind at this time and it can affect the people that are in the vicinity of the dying person... it depends on the person... how they lived their life... whether they have repressed much stuff or not...
A friend of mine tells me the Navajo american indians have a similar understanding as a part of their customs & beliefs and know that dark spirits may be released from the body during the time of death...when spirit leaves the body... so taking precautions may be wise.
-------------------------------

(5)“When "in love" happened to me it seemed to enhanse my mental capabilities. Enhansed all of my physical reality.”

At that very moment… ‘When “in love” happened’… your mental faculties were given a rest… thinking may have stopped, momentarily, at times … and the clouds of thoughts, that normally are there that prevent us from seeing true reality as it is, cleared away… the momentary clarity allowed for physical reality to appear enhanced.
-------------------------------

(6)“Love is indeed a verb. I've been saying that for years. It's an active thing, like you said "it has no address" (I like that). To get that love flowing is not that difficult a thing to do. It's one of the things that helped in my survival. Keeping the love flowing. But it doesn't explain "in love" with one specific individual.

And its not an obsession. I created a few obsessions when sick to give me some sanity to hang onto. I had to obsess about certain things in my childhod before I became sick just to keep from dying. However, once healthy those obsessions vanished as they should. The "in love" didn't. And I had the "in love" before I was sick. The "in love" thing ended with her in 1969, I didn't get sick until 1971. A good two and a half years. It wasn't a real big problem back then because I thought I would have the "in love" thing again. I didn't know how rare it is."

It is a rare thing to have happen... some people go through their whole life and do not get a taste of it... I would look at this with this kind of attitude... if your mind desires it to happen again, the very desire will keep you from experiencing... it happened partly because you did not expect it to come... and it hit you from the back door... a very blessed hit, i might add...

it may have been an authentic experience of satori the way you are telling it. Satori is a japanese term. It means a taste of enlightenment... like i said before, it happens when you are not expecting it to happen. It can last for a some time... days, weeks... and even months... and then slowly the mind comes back and starts functioning out of its old habit... it feels as though love is like sand slipping through your fingers...unable to stop it... as if it is leaving you and no way that you can prevent it...

This unique experience can happen in being with another person... it can happen while listening to inspirational music... or looking at some beautiful artwork... it can even happen when you are alone... no one around you at all... just sitting in your back yard listening to the birds singing, the bees buzzing...the beauty that surrounds you... and suddenly... you are transformed in the solitude... but after, when it goes...and has slipped away… and left you completely… then, that’s when you find out what real misery is… because, now, you know what the taste is like, there is nothing sweeter… it was the taste of the divine... and now it has left you totally and you are back in the dark ages ... and it looks to be darker than it ever was before… and how to get it back? …the more you want it the further away it gets away from you... ...and, so then, the real misery begins... and it is something that will haunt you till the end of your days... but the memory of it can be a driving force, too… that keeps you moving on the path least chosen… inspire you enough so that no one can knock you off of it… or tempt you away from it… because now you have experienced something higher... you see there is something in life that is really worth living for... it all depends on you…

if this is what your story is… be very grateful that you had this one moment ... because most people never...ever experience this... be very fortunate... it was a precious gift... be patient and don't expect... go on your way and live the best you can... it sounds like you have good work to be involved in... you are very fortunate. It will come again when you stop desiring for it...
--------------------------------------------

(7)“And no matter how hard you try to "forget and move on" it just doesn't work. It works with the flowing love but not with the "in love" love.”

But you say: “to forget and move on –it just doesn’t work”…
It seems that what is hovering around you are memories of something you experienced that was very dear to you…you are very attached to it… and it has some psychological pain connected to it… and you want it to go away… I hope I am not stepping out of line here... if you feel I am trespassing and the words do not apply to you, then please disregard…
but the psychological pain can be dissolved…

But to understand this: There can be no “peace of mind”… this phrase that everyone has used at sometime or other is a misnomer… it is mislabeled… a contradiction in terms... there is no peace that can come out of mind...
Again, the only time that there comes a problem is when you start thinking about it… if you think about old age, you start to become fearful of it… but old people are not afraid because of age… if you think about illness, you become afraid… but when illness has already happened there is no fear, there is no problem… Reality never causes problems; it is only the ideas about reality that creates the problem… wanting something to be there or not is a desire of the thinking mind… such desires feed the memory to persist and this helps for it to continue and to remain with you…

Mind is a trouble maker…thinking is what prevents the “in love” from happening again…drop the mind and peace there will be… The East understands this better than the West. Zen is a Science of the inner. People who are into zen live life with “no mind” meditation as the basis of all physical and mental well-being.

The Western man is a neurotic mess because he doesn’t know how to ground himself to reality… He goes on trying to think his way out of his problems… but the more he thinks the more new problems come… and the older ones certainly do not go away… just buried beneath more and more unconsciousness…

The psychological pain is there because you also desire the pleasure… if you want the pain to not be there then do not desire the pleasure… but then, it will not be much of a life. Pleasure and pain come together … they are one … just like night and day they make up the whole day… if you only want the day, then it is not possible … the dark night is part of the package… remember mind likes to divide things and make them two… in reality they are together as one… love and hate also come together… the same with anger and compassion… so, its up to you… if you keep pushing away the pain and wanting the pleasure to remain… well you are trying to have all the cake and keep it too… you are trying to fool yourself into thinking you can live this life according to how you want things to be…

If you have been in love with this woman and it was something special… that you have not experienced again since… then be grateful … whatever was involved with that experience is now a part of you … it is an integral part of you! The relationship may be finished… but its influence has helped to shape you into what you are today… she may not be physically next to you at this moment… but she remains inside you… and that is a treasure to be able to have… I would not suggest you to try to forget it… rather accept it … embrace it… and relive it if you feel you must… find a private place and cry over it… or grab a pillow to beat on if there is anger left over from it... but be sure to express the emotions that you have been holding back for so many years… it will be a cleansing… you will find a great relief in allowing these emotions to be expressed… do it as often as you need to… until you are finished with them or better… until they are finished with you… with their being released, they will then go quietly on their way… you will be greatly unburdened… the guilt will not haunt you anymore… just be sincere and total if you find that you need to do this… find a place where you can do this without being disturbed by others…noticed by others or where it will disturb others… it is good therapy… there will be much peace after… in fact, after crying and/or being angry for 10 minutes… then just sit silently for another 10 minutes… it will be very easy for you to enter into a sillence…it will be easier for you to see that you are not your emotions… that you are not your feelings … that you are not your thoughts … you are something much much greater than any of these…

Peace to you…
Tweet