Re: Questions regarding Essiac's original formula and dosage

"It's more complicated than what can be learned in one week of taking essiac. It's watch, listen, learn, read, research, brew, and do --"

Well, I've been looking into Essiac for at least 10 years, and researching it more intently in the past few months.  It hasn't been a one week affair.

We are in a discussion of the original recipe for the tea and that should be beneficial for each of us, and for those who read the cancer support forum.  It isn't like discussing chemotherapy vs. radiation therapy.

"I again disagree with you regarding four herb essiac. This is merely my opinion and not to be taken personally. To each his own essiac formula. There is no need to quote the book to me, as I have read it and formed my opinion, not based on only one book or two books, but several and much in-depth research. One of the disheartening aspects of the essiac protocol is wading through the unfortunate "essiac wars" and conflicting information."

I agree to disagree.  However, in the post that I was responding to you wrote:

"I have accumulated quite a library of books on essiac, including "Essiac: Rene Caisse's Herbal Pharmacy". Rene Caisse did indeed work with Dr. Charles Brusch and together they developed an eight herb formula, including four potentiating herbs, which make the four core herbs more effective..."

As a foundation of your point of view that Essiac is an eight herb tea, you refer to "Essiac: Rene Caisse's Herbal Pharmacy" which doesn't have a single statement in support of eight herbs.  In fact, it does nothing but support the four herb recipe!  If you are presenting that as a part of your research to support eight herbs, you can't - because, it doesn't!

Your history of Essiac is mixing apples and oranges.  Yes, I'm fully aware of how Rene came into the recipe.  The inference that the original formula came from a Canadian Ojibwa Shaman, Medicine Man is just that, an inference.  There is no supporting evidence of where it came from.  That part of the story is pure unsupported fantasy.

"Rene Caisse worked with several M.D.s in her early career using essiac, in her middle years and later. One of them was Dr. Charles Brusch and she visited his clinic in Massachusetts several times and stayed there for lengthy periods."

You are mixing things together that do not belong together.  Yes, in Rene's cancer clinic, she worked under the direction of MDs and she didn't charge any fees.  That was in order to circumvent Canadian laws against practicing medicine without a license.  She closed her clinic in the 1940s, long before Brusch ever came into the picture.  After early experiments with an eight herb formula, Rene settled on the four herb recipe and had remarkable results with this formula during several years work in her cancer clinic.

Her contact with Brusch didn't come about until much later and while she did visit him, but how much they worked together is a matter of wild speculation.  In the above book that you referenced (me too) the co-author of the book was an associate of Brusch for 14 years during which time she had access to the detailed correspondence between Brusch and Caisse, and McPherson.  The co-author in the statement that I copied said there is no evidence that Brusch ever had any knowledge of the formula.  Rene was very secretive in all she worked with and never gave the formula to anyone.  She always prepared the tea and brought the prepared tea to the research facilities.  When the brew ran out, they had to contact her for more.  Your other statement that she and Brusch "developed" a formula is completely without supporting evidence.  That she worked closely with him is also very suspect as in the books that I've read he (Brusch) treated her very distantly, if at all, and she did not spend a great deal of time with him.  In fact, she left soon after beginning that association because he wanted to make the formula there and she refused to give it to him.  They talked on the telephone from time to time but from what her associates relate about that is that Brusch treated her as an inferior and was only after the formula, which he never got .  Brusch and/or his associates have made a wild, wild statement that she worked with him for 20 years and that is a flat out lie.  All you have to do in following the story is to recognize that Brusch has an ego of immense proportions and his claim and the claim of any of his associates that he perfected a blend is utter nonsense and cannot be supported.  In fact, even before I read the above book it became apparent to me that those who are pushing the eight herb tea using Brusch's name are charging horrible prices and suggesting mega doses for one reason and one reason only, to make lots of money.

I am very much aware of the history that you have presented but wished to make the above comments regarding Brusch's role and the four vs. four herb variety.

Regarding the Indian vs. Turkey rhubarb, you can go the following link and read about it near the bottom of the page.  Whether the original formula included Indian rhubarb or not, is highly questionable and not supportable.

http://www.motherearthherbs.com/rhubarb.html

"I doubt that Rene Caisse said that one only needs to take 1 oz. at bedtime for all patients across the board. I do not necessarily trust the word of Sheila Snow, as I know her to be wrong in her reporting of other facts. 1 oz. at bedtime is NOT the directions of all essiac manufacturers that I know."

Always doubt what doesn't fit what you believe.  She cured many cancer cases with one ounce a day.  One ounce at bedtime may not be the directions of the Essiac manufacturers you know, but where did they get their dosage?  The higher the dosage, the greater their sales.

"Burdock grows wild in many places on the North American continent, including the mountains and surrounding areas of Lake Tahoe, all over Canada, and is prolific in states like Wisconsin. It grows on the roadside and in people's backyards, very common."

Yes, it does now.  But it didn't arrive in North America until European settlers brought it here in the 16th Century or later, probably mixed with the seeds they brought for farming.  It is not a native plant. 

"If you do not believe the story of origination that a Canadian Ojibwa Shaman showed the local herbs to a woman with breast cancer and that patient eventually relayed the herbal information to Rene Caisse -- there is not much point in taking essiac at all. Turkey Rhubarb has replaced the original Indian Rhubarb common to North America because it is medicinally more potent and has been used as a potent medicine in Asia and China going back in history for many dynasties. So, there have been changes to the original formula for the good. I would not get hung up on taking the original formula only. The more you read, you will understand why."

I do not doubt the story that it originated with a shaman, but I seriously doubt if the specific tribe and/or medicine man can ever be verified.  It simply can't.  I do doubt the Indian to Turkey rhubarb transformation.  There is no supporting evidence for it whatsoever.

What is completely missing in all of this discussion and in everything in print, is the healing powers of Rene Caisse.  Yes, the tea can heal, but so can healers.  How much of a factor she was in working directly with the cancer patients in their recovery is an unknown factor.  The greatest healing agent on the planet is - the human spirit.  A healer (spirit) working with a person (spirit) who wants to be healed.  Each one of us a spirit in a body, and when we become in touch with out spiritual aspects we can accomplish many things.  If you have read any of Bernie Siegel's books you will know that he treated some cancer patients without medication of any kind, and some of them healed.  There were many who were in the healing process and lost their faith and regressed.  If you don't wish to heal, nothing can be done for you.  Also, most people fail to recognize that death is a healing too.  It is but a transition.

Keep up with your research.  Keep your faith and keep healing and I'll do the same.