Re: Been there Done that

You say you don't know or understand what bothered me about what you said, so therefore I will explain.

""Bear in mind that any traditional INSTITUTIONAL church only teaches the introductory "ELEMENTARY" doctrine of Christ (Hebrews 6:1), but a truth lover such as yourself won't be satisfied until you discover the "depths of God" (1 Corinthians 2:10) after reading God's WRITTEN word (word of truth, 2 Timothy 2:15, Ephesians 1:13) and learning to HEAR His voice (John 10:27) from the "sword of the spirit" (Ephesians 6:17) and "walk by the spirit" (Galatians 5:16 and 25) instead of walk by mere faith.

There are many misteachings in the institutional church (the real church is the Body of Christ, all believers).

That is a direct copy and paste of yours so you can directly see it. What bothered me was your saying that any church ONLY teach elemetary doctrine--and if that were true wouldn't that be BAD? I would think it would be very bad if any and all churches did not go beyond the foundation of

Hebrews 6:1Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

I didn't say you used the word bad, but the picture you painted was bad or definetly what I would consider to be bad if it were true that any church doesn't go beyond that--which thankfully it is not. And how these paragraphs could construed as anything but discouraging is beyond me? Or perhaps it piled up upon the many other messages I have read of yours with negative references to the church that the end compilation of it becomes that to me? Which I believe in previous messages you yourself have said you do not go to church, which is why I said what I said at the end. That even though that is your personal choice, I do not believe new converts should be discouraged about church. The Body of Christ as a whole need to work together to minister to the lost, to tell others of Jesus, to show forth his love, and his works and greater even than he performed. The New Testament believers were not seperate and even Paul always traveled with others. The early believers were always assembling with other believers, not only in the tabernacle or sanctuary but in homes from house to house (Acts 2:46).

I care about people, and I care about them maturing. And the reason I even said anything is because I do care about people and wanted to address what I felt to be discouraging church. You say it is not what you meant, but it is what came across to me. Maybe I did not do it in the right way just perfectly, but God knows my heart was right. So for you to lie and say all manner of incorrect things about me and I'll quote "just didn't like my message because it didn't flatter and validate the world of pastors, scholars and "bookmen" (modern pharisees) and dry textbook faith" "since you are in the habit of disrespecting [a person's] humanity" ""textual", become a human being with a heart of flesh so that love can cover the multitude of sins you're so anxious to see in others" If you knew me, you'd know my nature. You're not God, far from it, so you don't see my heart and you apparently do not know me whatsoever. I'm not interested in validating scholars and texts, I'm interested in people. It is not my habit to disrespecting people, as I mentioned in my first post I rarely comment on anything towards the negative side much less go about just disrespecting people all the time. You can go back over the last five years worth of my posts on this forum and see that not very often do I even say anything negative. My main position is that of encouragment and support, even generally when I disagree with something. I'm not anxiously out looking for everyone else's faults either, I have plenty of my own that I am asking Jesus to help me with without having to worry about everyone else's. But after reading so many of your messages that to me were very discouraging and disgruntled toward the church it had built and I just didn't feel I could let it slide, especially with a new believer because I wanted them to be encouraged--not discouraged. It would be a discouraging thought indeed to think that no churches or ministries out there had the help that he needed and he would have to continue to wait and wait until from the Bible he all the answers and had figured it out for himself, which is a great thing but does take time and more time to have experiencial knowledge of knowing it for oneself personally. He has withstood the onslaught of demonic attack long enough I think.

Yes, personal relationship with Jesus is everything, and I TOTALLY agree on that. Without personal relationship being well established I do not even understand why some go to church, how do they benefit the service or benefit from it without bringing that personal relationship with them?

Apologies BTDT are not about being gracious, they are about being sincere. I'm not going to be gracious but at the same time blow wind up their skirt. It seemed fairly prideful of you to say that you accepted my apology when I had not even given one. I will say I am sorry if I have offended you, for I never want to offend anyone, but I do not feel sorry for what I said--or wrote as it were. One part I do offer apologies on because I did not say it well or explain it well and I feel it came across very rudely--which is not my intention. "A new believer especially needs to be in a good, Bible based church to help them mature in Jesus and to have the support of fellow Christians. Bible based is the key. Not a "Been there done that's" opinion based church, because I don't think any church is going to line up with everything that you say." What I mean is if we are looking for a church that lines up with every single opinion that we have it would be hard pressed to find a church, likely I would say it would be impossible. But as long as a church is Bible based and we agree with most everything, that they are reaching out the lost with the hope of Jesus, that they are maturing and growing and teaching others to do the same--if there are a couple of minor things that a person disagrees with then that would not negate that church as a place to attend. Mind you I am saying MINOR, I'm not talking about condoning homosexuality or sinning on purpose or such, but minor things and opinions. Even in just the few people you see here in this forum it is evident that we all agree on Jesus and pretty much have our ideas about ALMOST everything else.

The twins are fussing, so I will close for now, and it may take me days yet again to return. It's not my intention to reflare anything, and we seem to have brought out some of the worst in each other. As my friend says "Holy sandpaper, reminding us that we still have edges that need to be worn off." And that is yet another reason I need Jesus, so that he could help me be more loving-- even in the face of disagreement. I don't always suceed in drawing on his help, and continue to fail--but I will get up and dust off the dirt and try again and with his help will do better next time Praise God! Tweet