CureZone   Log On   Join
Re: 12 POINTS on MERCURY TOXICITY
Forum: Amalgam Debate Forum  
 
 
  • Re: 12 POINTS on MERCURY TOXICITY wintergreen  18 y  7,311  


    wintergreen

    This is a reply to # 37,062
     
    Unfortunately, those tests only show mercury clearance, and do not tell you how much mercury is actually in the tissues. They can be useful to gauge acute toxicity, but not chronic. There really is no good test for that. Cutler favors doing hair tests for deranged mineral transport caused by mercury, but even he acknowledges that hair tests are far from a perfect tool.
     
       
    • Re: 12 POINTS on MERCURY TOXICITY Aharleygyrl  18 y  11,477  


      Aharleygyrl

      This is a reply to # 37,066
       

      My doctor diagnosed my mercury and nickel poisoning by running urine and fecal fractionated porphyrin tests for mercury and nickel. These tests should be followed up with other tests (i.e. blood, urine and hair; see below) to rule out other sources of poisoning other than fillings, but it should be the primary testing, as fractionated porphyrin testing is a biomarker for mercury and other heavy metal poisoning. According to Hal Huggins, the father of the mercury removal movement:

      "The urine porphyrin test is perhaps the best indicator of heavy metal toxicity. ...Heavy metals cause in increase in the excretion of porphyrins."

      Source: "It's All In Your Head", p 94, by Hal Huggins.

      Porphyrins measured in urine serve as such a biomarker. The presence or elevation of various urinary porphyrin species can flag a potentially toxic condition. Metals and other toxic chemicals with prooxidant reactivity can inactivate porphyrinogenic enzymes, deplete glutathione and other antioxidants and increase oxidant stress, all of which lead to damaged membranes, enzymes and other proteins in cells . In addition, porphyrinogens (precursors to porphyrins in the reduced state) themselves are easily nonenzymatically oxidized to porphyrins by toxic metals such as mercury. Thus, the distribution pattern of porphyrins in the urine serves as a functional ‘fingerprint’ of toxicity .

      The utility of urinary porphyrins as a diagnostic tool is not new—its use has been documented in the literature since 1934. Specific diseases collectively known as the porphyrias, which can be inherited or acquired (e.g. acute intermittent porphryia, porphyria cutanea tarda, variegate porphyria), are often diagnosed with the aid of information regarding the distribution profile of individual porphyrin species in human urine.

      Any patients testing positive on the urinary porphyrins test should be subjected to follow up with more specific testing for a differential diagnosis. Tests that assay toxic metals directly in biological samples (i.e. blood, urine and hair) are essential for confirming whether the toxicity symptoms are caused by a metal. Identification of toxic organic chemicals by laboratory methods is also possible. Ruling out porphyria as the primary cause of porphyria-like symptoms requires tests for porphyrinogenic enzyme activities (e.g. uroporphyrinogen decarboxylase), as well as tests for blood, fecal and urine porphobilinogen (PBG) and delta-aminolevulinic acid (ALA).

      http://www.metametrix.com/Publications/Toxic%20Metals/

      Some researchers suggest hair offers a better indicator of mercury body burden than blood or urine(279,21ab), though still not totally reliable and may be a better indicator for organic mercury than inorganic. In the early stages of mercury exposure before major systemic damage other than slight fatigue results you usually see high hemoglobin, hemocrit, alkaline phosphatase, and lactic dehydroganese; in later states you usually see marginal hemoglobin, hemocrit, plus low oxyhemoglobin(35). Hair was found to be significantly correlated with fish consumption, as well as with occupational dental exposure and to be a good medium for monitoring internal mercury exposure, except that external occupational exposure can also affect hair levels. Mercury hair level in a population sampled in Madrid Spain ranged from 1.3 to 92.5 ppm. This study found a significant positive correlation between maternal hair mercury and mercury level in nursing infants. Hair mercury levels did not have a significant correlation with urine mercury in one study(340) and did not have a significant correlation to number of fillings(350). One researcher suggests that mercury levels in hair of greater than 5 ppm are indicative of mercury intoxication.

      A new test approved by the FDA for diagnosing damage that has been caused by toxic metals like mercury is the fractionated porphyrin test(260,35), that measures amount of damage as well as likely source. Mercury blocks enzymes needed to convert some types of porphyrins to hemoglobin and adenosine tri phosphate(ATP). The pattern of which porphyrins are high gives an indication of likely toxic exposure, with high precoproporphyrin almost always high with mercury toxicity and often coproporphyrin.

      http://home.earthlink.net/~berniew1/hgremove.html

      [A] test commonly used to assess metabolic toxicicity effects of mercury and other toxic exposures is the fractionated porphyrin test(260). The type, level, and pattern of metabolic waste porphyrins in urine indicate the extent of toxicity effects and give an indication of the likely toxic source by the pattern. These tests indicate not only degree of toxicity effects but also suggest treatments that usually result in improvement of the condition.

      http://www.home.earthlink.net/~berniew1/damspr17.html

      Feces is the major path of excretion of mercury from the body, having a higher correlation tosystemic body burden than urine or blood, which tend to correlate with recent exposure level(6,21abd,35,36,79,80,183,278). For this reason many researchers consider feces to be the most reliable indicator of daily exposure level to mercury or other toxics. The average level of mercury in feces of populations with Amalgam fillings is as much as 1 ppm and approx. 10 times that of a similar group without fillings (79,80,83,335,386,528,25), with significant numbers of those with several filings having over 10 ppm and 150 times those without fillings(80). For those with several fillings daily fecal mercury excretion levels range between 20 to 200 ug/day.

      http://www.xs4all.nl/~stgvisie/AMALGAM/EN/SCIENCE/bernie_science.html

      Besides the porphyrin fecal and urine testing, another good test is the Melisa test. It will tell if you have mercury poisoning and the likely source (such as amalgam fillings). For more information, see www.melisa.org

      DMPS and DMSA are called provocation challenge tests. They test as well as chelate mercury, but they are dangerous, according to Hal Huggins, and should be avoided. They were invented for military personnel who get heavy metals dumped on them and designed to get it out quick. It puts toxic loads on the kidneys (even new lower doses being promoted are not safe) and can make you very ill.

      Dr. Thomas Levy is a cardiologist who co-authored Uninformed Consent with Hal Huggins. In the book, Drs. Levy and Huggins discourage the use of synthetic chelators in general, and DMPS in particular. At page 252 they state:

      "Heavy metal chelators almost always overaccelerate the detoxification of the post-TDR (total dental revision) patient. DMSA, DMPS, and EDTA can all do this. DMPS is consistently the greatest offender here. Immune declines and clinical illness can result for weeks and sometimes even months after only one injection of DMPS".

      Dr. Levy...[says], "DMPS is an unqualified sledge hammer to the immune system". He referred to the administration of DMPS as an "assault". Dr. Levy believes that synthetic chelators should just plain be avoided most of the time. Most patients simply don't need them.

      http://www.dmpsbackfire.com/dmps/default.shtml

      To read more about mercury testing, see my FAQs webpage:

       
       
         
      • Re: 12 POINTS on MERCURY TOXICITY wintergreen  18 y  7,467  


        wintergreen

        This is a reply to # 37,068
         
        Elevated porphyrins can mean a lot of things, such as arsenic or an organic material. I am unaware of the newer test, so I can't comment on that.

        Fecal tests measure elimination of mercury, and to some extent exposure can be extrapolated from the data, as you note with the higher fecal elimination of mercury in people with amalgams. But many or most people with numerous Amalgams show no signs of Amalgam illness. Exposure is really not what is at issue.

        The existence of challenge tests makes evident the fact that straight urine and fecal testing aren't adequate indicators in and of themselves. Challenge tests are dangerous, and when done with DMSA or DMPS can not be expected to measure mercury in the central nervous system, but they do have some added utility over that of a straight urine test, as it will liberate some mercury that would not normally have been present in the urine.
         
         
         
      •  
      • Re: 12 POINTS on MERCURY TOXICITY wintergreen  18 y  7,631  


        wintergreen

        This is a reply to # 37,068
         
        I went to the http://www.metametrix.com page, and it was pretty interesting. Here's a partial list they give of drugs that have to be ruled out. It would be interesting to see a full list of environmental toxins that could have the same effect.

        I'll stand by my earlier statement that there is no good diagnostic test to assay mercury toxicity. Again, Cutler favors hair tests, as they are economical and you can get a lot of information from them, but they are not particularly reliable either. The most thorough approach would involve testing hair, blood, urine, and feces. That should give you a pretty good idea, and alert you to some other sources of toxicity, but that is also a lot of testing, and it is still not 100%.

        Do you know enough about any of this stuff to discuss it, or is it just going to be copy and paste? :-)

        #############################################################

        TABLE 2. Drugs known to cause or
        exacerbate porphyria 1
        Antipyrine
        Amidopyrine
        Aminoglutethimide
        Barbiturates
        Carbamazepine
        Carbromal
        Chloropropramide
        Chloral hydrate
        Danazol
        Dapsone
        Diclofenac
        Diphenylhydrantoin
        Ergot preparations
        Ethanol (acute)
        Ethclorvynol
        Ethinamate
        Glutethimide
        Griseofulvin
        Isopropylmeprobamate
        Mephenyltoin
        Meprobamate
        Methylprylon
        N-butylscopolammaonium bromide
        Nitrous oxide
        Novobiocin
        Phenylbutazone
        Primadone
        Pyrazolone preparations
        Succinimides
        Sulfonamide Antibiotics
        Sulfonthylmethane
        Sulfonmethane
        Synthetic estrogens, progestins
        Tolazamide
        Tolbutamide
        Trimethadone
        Valproic acid

        1- Although this list includes many of the better known drugs that can exacerbate porphyria, it should not be considered complete.

         
         
         
           
        • Re: 12 POINTS on MERCURY TOXICITY travlinggypsy  18 y  7,045  


          travlinggypsy

          This is a reply to # 37,070
           
          hi totally newbee here and trying to learn and keep up with you guys but i am lost. What do you mean by drugs known to cause or exacerbate porphyrial? easy terms please so i can understand cause i see a drug that brother was taking for his seizures until recently valporic acid. thanks alot
           
             
          • Re: 12 POINTS on MERCURY TOXICITY wintergreen  18 y  7,740  


            wintergreen

            This is a reply to # 37,087
             
            Ah damn, people are reading this thread. I'll have to clear that up with another response post when I have time.

            There does appear to be a number of drugs that exacerbate porphyria. The following is from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porphyria

            Attacks of the disease can be triggered by drugs (e.g., barbiturates, alcohol, sulfa drugs, oral contraceptives, sedatives, and certain Antibiotics ), other chemicals, certain foods, and exposure to the sun. Fasting can also trigger attacks.

            The above cut and paste of mine was from http://www.metametrix.com/Publications/Toxic%20Metals/ which harleygirl used in the above post.

            I'm not sure if I quite understand your post. Was your brother having seizures for something else while he was taking valproic acid? Here's some information on the drug from the manufacturer, which has a long list of side-effects. FWIW, although porphyria is mentioned down near the bottom, it is not one of the side effects that is listed on the box warning, so my possibly very incorrect interpretation is that it is not looked upon as one of the primary dangers of valproic acid.

            http://www.drugs.com/pdr/VALPROIC_ACID.html

            I want to clarify that I know next-to-nothing about porphyria. This was just some information that came up during a discussion of the value or lack thereof of urine and fecal porphyrin testing, which I don't think has much real-world value for individuals looking to ascertain whether their health issues are due to chronic mercury poisoning, although it can be a helpful diagnostic test for acute mercury poisoning.

            I would suggest that your brother spend some time looking up valproic acid on the internet. From the warnings, it appears to have a broad spectrum of side-effects, although it is difficult to ascertain from the information just how common these side-effects are.

            Good luck! :-)
             
             
             
               
            • Re: 12 POINTS on MERCURY TOXICITY travlinggypsy  18 y  7,306  


              travlinggypsy

              This is a reply to # 37,088
               
              thanks my brother started having seizures after a very severe uti. rather than try and find out why he was having seizures they marked it up to his ms doctors had him on 1000 mg a day then went to 2000 a day and then when he was sent home from hospital few months ago had him on kepra and 2000 twice a day in liquid form this last hospital visit they sent him home only on keppra when asked about val por a
              acid all they said was we have not given him that for 2 weeks now. no explanations.
              i thought there was this dmsa that worked in removing the mercury and it would just be easir than trying all these tests just to do the removal and flush out remaining mercury and metals.is it that important to know or more important to get it evacuated from the body? you people are so far from my realm of understanding its like a foreign language i am trying to learn still do not understand this porphyria? thanks for letting me sit in on your conversations :)
               
               
               
                 
              • Re: 12 POINTS on MERCURY TOXICITY wintergreen  18 y  7,472  


                wintergreen

                This is a reply to # 37,090
                 
                Mercury chelation may help him, but first he would have to remove any Amalgam fillings if he has them. I would strongly suggest Cutler Protocol, and look into the Yahoo group that I'll link to below. Many of the other forms of chelation can be quite dangerous.

                A friend of mine has been diagnosed with MS, and I did a query on the Frequent Dose Chelation group concerning. I got some outstanding responses from some other individuals with MS. Here's the link. You or your brother would have to join, but I would suggest doing so in any case.

                http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/frequent-dose-chelation/messag...

                As an aside, Lyme's Disease can masquerade as Multiple Sclerosis, and that is something your brother should look into.

                http://www.lymeinfo.net/multiplesclerosis.html
                 
                 
                 
                   
                • Re: 12 POINTS on MERCURY TOXICITY travlinggypsy  18 y  7,067  


                  travlinggypsy

                  This is a reply to # 37,092
                   
                  been trying to get dentist to look at him with no success this i know would help cause his mouth is getting real bad and being on feeding tube i still dont know proper ways to care for his mouth and it is getting a buildup of this hard rubbery substance that is interfering with his mouth movements and tongue we had it all cleared out but then he had a 3 week hospital stay w/ no mouth care and its back to the way it was before. of course i will join anything. I wish it was lyme but its not. thanks for all your help
                   
                     
                  • Re: 12 POINTS on MERCURY TOXICITY Aharleygyrl  18 y  7,323  


                    Aharleygyrl

                    This is a reply to # 37,094
                     

                    well, i am not big on cutler's protocol. but, yes, don't chelate until all metals and root canals (if he has any) are out of the mouth, and all crowns that have nickel in them also, and especially don't chelate with drugs like dmsa or dmps. those were invented for military personnel who get large amounts of metals dumped on them and need to get it out quick. it puts too much heavy metals on the kidney's at once. it is also not a good test for mercury. i know nowdays they are making much smaller doses, but it still isn't good to use. after all the toxins are out, i recommend only supplements to chelate. those are listed on my website. as far as the porphyrin issue, basically, mercury messes up the porphyrins. u can get a fractionated porphyrin fecal and urine test for mercury to see if you have mercury poisoning from your amalgam fillings. these can be cooberated with other tests like hair and a 24 hour urine tst for mercury. another good test is the melisa test it tells if you have mercury poisoning and the likely source: www.melisa.org

                     
                     
                     
                       
                    • Re: 12 POINTS on MERCURY TOXICITY wintergreen  18 y  6,827  


                      wintergreen

                      This is a reply to # 37,099
                       
                      harleygirl: well, i am not big on cutler's protocol. but, yes, don't chelate until all metals and root canals (if he has any) are out of the mouth, and all crowns that have nickel in them also, and especially don't chelate with drugs like dmsa or dmps. those were invented for military personnel who get large amounts of metals dumped on them and need to get it out quick. it puts too much heavy metals on the kidney's at once.

                      wintergreen: Not true if used properly under Cutler's protocol, which involves small amounts of these agents spaced apart in dosage times in line with their activity in the body, which would be every 4 hours for DMSA and every 8 hours for DMPS. DMSA and DMPS as treatments should be avoided in cases of kidney damage or individual reactions like headaches (fairly common with DMSA). But in cases of kidney damage, there are lots of things that people should not be taking. Like the 600 mg per day of chromium picolinate that you suggest for chelation on your website. Large doses of chromium may cause kidney failure.

                      harleygirl: it is also not a good test for mercury. i know nowdays they are making much smaller doses, but it still isn't good to use. after all the toxins are out, i recommend only supplements to chelate. those are listed on my website. as far as the porphyrin issue, basically, mercury messes up the porphyrins. u can get a fractionated porphyrin fecal and urine test for mercury to see if you have mercury poisoning from your Amalgam fillings. another good test is the melisa test: http://www.melisa.org

                      wintergreen: Well, aside from the fact that an individual diagnosed with MS on a feeding tube and presumably heavy medication can have elevated porphyrins for a multitude of reasons, neither porphyrin testing nor the melisa test will measure the amount of mercury in the brain. The special problem of mercury toxicity is that it can pass the blood-brain barrier in its organic form, where it can be oxidized by the body into the inorganic form which does not pass the blood-brain barrier as easily. So it remains trapped in the brain. Alpha lipoic acid can remove it from the brain, and possibly cilantro can as well, but their careful use is necessary to avoid redistribution effects or more mercury can actually be carried into the brain due to their use. The latter is especially likely in the first few months after Amalgam removal, when the body's mercury load is typically greater. Your chelation protocol which includes a 200 mg dose of alpha lipoic acid once or twice a day is definitely not recommended. Ditto for the cilantro tincture you recommend 3x a day.

                      http://bikerchick.freehomepage.com/shopping_page.html

                      While you are obviously very knowledgeable about Amalgam removal, and I value your advice in that respect, you don't seem to know much about chelation. On your site at http://bikerchick.freehomepage.com/custom3.html , you write

                      "EDTA chelation is ok, but doesn't remove much mercury, and I recommend you do supplemental chelation at least 4 months beforehand."

                      The truth is that EDTA chelation is not ok for mercury toxic individuals. Hal Huggins, an authority that you've referenced, has written in his booklet on Detoxification that can be purchased at hugnet.com:

                      "Haley is saying that the combination of mercury and EDTA
                      inactivates some of the body’s most important enzymes.
                      Enzymes are small proteins that are matchmakers in the chemical
                      world. They take two chemicals that are supposed to react, but
                      are shy when they get close together. An enzyme takes the hand
                      of both shy chemicals and pulls them closer together. As they
                      touch, the enzyme steps away and
                      the reaction goes ahead. The
                      combination of EDTA and mercury
                      inhibits more enzymes than any
                      other metal tested. He tested
                      probably 15 other potentially
                      harmful metals (from my estimate
                      looking at his graph in a lecture) and
                      none even came close to inactivating
                      the enzymes that the combination of
                      mercury and EDTA did.

                      "The next day, back in the office, I
                      received a call from a young lady
                      who had a Vitamin C IV procedure,
                      with EDTA, and was partially
                      paralyzed in her legs. The
                      following day, her whole body was
                      paralyzed. That day I got two
                      more calls of similar events the day
                      after IVC and EDTA. Looking at the secondary immune reactions
                      from chlorella and other materials, plus the fact that these
                      reactions had not occurred during the first 4 or 5 treatments with
                      EDTA, I am wondering if we are not seeing the same thing as
                      with other post amalgam removal patients."
                       
                       
                       
                         
                      • Re: 12 POINTS on MERCURY TOXICITY travlinggypsy  18 y  6,661  


                        travlinggypsy

                        This is a reply to # 37,100
                         
                        thank you both though you are loosing me in this conversation,i am very ignorant to what you both are talking about, brother is on metoclopramide for stomach 4 times day protonix once a day,amiodarone 2 times a day says for heart ? digoxin once a day, keppra for seizures 2 times a day, lasix i a day for fluid. most are in liquid form. Been afraid to do the greens powder not knowing much about it and i have been told lemon juice would be good for him.want to add something while waiting on these teeth to be removed.Does it really matter after Amalgam removed cant a body just do a complete metal cleanse and not worry how much was there or wasnt in the body,and isn't there something that would be safe for the removal that we can just put in his tube and flush those nasty metals out. His fluid out put is very good though no pressure in his voiding his urine. His stool is soft from feeding formula supplement.and he has no problems there in the amount he puts out so to speak. this dmsa i have heard good and bad but should this he given by doctor in office? it sounds like it needs proper monitoring.
                         
                         
                         
                           
                        • Re: 12 POINTS on MERCURY TOXICITY wintergreen  18 y  6,626  


                          wintergreen

                          This is a reply to # 37,103
                           
                          Even under the best circumstances, a moderate amount of mercury will be released during Amalgam removal. What alpha lipoic acid does is bind with mercury (and some other metals like arsenic) and this bound mercury can then pass the blood-brain barrier. But if there is more mercury in your body then there is in your brain and central nervous system, it will actually carry mercury into your brain. Normally, Cutler recommends you wait for a period of 3 months after Amalgam removal before beginning lipoic acid. What is particularly dangerous is the first 3 or 4 days after Amalgam removal, as there will be tiny bits of amalgam in the gastrointestinal tract before it is eliminated.

                          DMSA is normally taken without prescription. DMPS you need a prescription for. DMSA is taken in small amounts (usually start with 12.5 milligrams) every 4 hours around the clock for 3 days, and then take a 4 day break. Around the clock means at night as well. You can buy timers that make it easier than it sounds. It's not an expensive or even too involved protocol, but that one factor can make it a little annoying, to be honest.

                          DMSA and DMPS do not remove mercury from the brain like ALA does.

                          Frankly, your brother is a special case, and I would strongly recommend you check out the Yahoo groups mentioned, and you may want to message the individuals who responded in my thread. They would know far more than I do about MS and what steps to take, particularly with supportive therapies apart from amalgam removal and chelation. I know something about chelation, but there is way more expertise there on the matters that would specifically concern you.

                          Please feel free to ask any other questions in the meantime, but that is honestly your best bet. Good luck to you and your brother. :-)
                           
                           
                           
                      • Expand 20 messages, 41 to 60 of 78  Aharleygyrl  18 y  6,756  

  •  

    Donate to CureZone

     


    Share:  Facebook  MySpace  Digg  Reddit  StumbleUpon  Furl this page  Delicious  BlinkList  dzone  Simpy.com  Fark.com  BlogMarks  Wists.com  Google
    Translate This Page: