Questions_&_Answers

Question 2:

IT APPEARS to be paradoxical. One day I say that everything is related, interdependent, organic, and then I say you are responsible. These statements appear paradoxical, but they are not – because when I say you are responsible, I mean YOU are the WHOLE.

One has to start from somewhere and you cannot start from anyone else. Really, you are the nearest point from where the Whole can be reached. You are a part of the Whole, and everything is interdependent, but the other interdependent parts are very far from you. You cannot start your journey from them: you have to start from yourself. So when I say that everything is interdependent, it is a philosophical statement, a truth – a truth of one who has reached. When I say you are responsible, it is also a truth, but the truth of the seeker, not of the siddha – not of one who has reached.

But for one who has to travel, from where can you start your journey toward the Whole? You cannot start from my place; you cannot start from anyone else’s place. You will have to start from where you are. And if you feel that you are not responsible, you will drop and stagnate then and there. Then you have taken the whole thing in a very wrong light. Then this interdependence of the Whole is not a help, but a hindrance.

And this is possible: we can change even elixir into poison and we can use poison as elixir. It depends on us. So I will take a few examples: for example, Buddha says that whatsoever is to be attained is already in you. This statement can lead to two interpretations. One, that now there is no need to move anywhere because whatsoever is to be attained is already there. So, ”No need to do anything; I am okay as I am!” Now you have made a very valuable truth poisonous.

It can be interpreted in another way also, totally different. When Buddha says you are that which you can become. it gives a hope. Now it doesn’t seem impossible. You have the seed. The seed can grow to be a tree; you can move from the seed toward the tree. ”Now the tree is not impossible: it is hidden in me. So I can move confidently; I can move with hope; I can move into the unknown without any fear.” Then it can become a help.

When I say that the whole world is a cosmos, interdependent, it means that we are not islands, but we are a big infinite continent. We are related. No one is small. Everyone is really the Whole.

Ramteerth has said: ”You may believe or you may not believe, but I created the world. You may believe, you may not believe, but these stars are run by me.” He is mad. If you look only at the apparent meaning of his statement, he is mad. But if the Whole is interdependent, then he is not mad at all. Then whosoever may have created the world, I must have been a part of Him. It is impossible to have created the world without me. He is saying, ”I am a part, and whosoever is moving the stars, I am a part of Him. Without me they cannot move.”

When I say that everything is interdependent, I mean you are the Whole. You are not just a part, you are not isolated, you are not alone. The Whole is with you, within you. This is the ultimate realization, but for you this is simply a theoretical statement. This may be a realization for Buddha, but for you it is simply a theoretical statement. It is not your realization.

How to make this your realization? From where to begin? If you say, ”I am just a part, so what can I do? I am no one,” then no movement will be possible. You will drop dead then and there. Then this great truth becomes fatal to you. If you are to move and realize this truth, you have to be responsible – responsible for whatsoever you are. Then you can change it, and you can change it because you are not only you: the Whole is behind you. The moment you say, ”I am responsible,” the Whole has asserted itself through you. The moment you say, ”I will move,” the Whole will move within you.

I will take another example: Hindus have believed continuously, for millennia, that everyone is a soul and that the soul is immortal, the soul is pure, the soul is Divine. Gurdjieff, in this century, said, ”Do not deceive yourself. It is very difficult to gain a soul. Not everyone has a soul. It is very rare. Sometimes one attains a soul; otherwise you will be without a soul.”

It seems absolutely contradictory. He says that only a few rare individuals attain to a soul. He says that soul is an achievement. It is not given to you at your birth; it is not in you right now. It is possible only if you make some effort. Then you may create a soul. Gurdjieff says that not everyone is immortal. Those who attain souls, they become immortal. Otherwise you are just a wastage. Nature creates you with a possibility of being a soul, and then, with no effort, you drop dead. Then nature has failed within you. You will not survive; not everyone is going to survive.

It seems absolutely contradictory to Hindu, Jain and Buddhist teachings. Christians, Mohammedans – really, all religions – teach that you have a soul, and Gurdjieff says ”No!” And, really, he was one of the knowers of this age. But why this emphasis? He says that because of this teaching, that everyone has a soul. no one makes any effort. Everyone believes, ”It is okay. The soul is eternally pure.” Read the Gita: Krishna says that whatsoever you do, your soul remains untouched; it is pure.

This can become a very dangerous thing. Gurdjieff says that because of these teachings humanity has become irreligious. He says, ”Now no more of this nonsense! Unless you attain, you have no soul.” Gurdjieff creates a deep shock. He says, ”What do you have so that the universe will need you forever? What do you have? Nothing! Just all your stupidities.”

To think, to conceive, that all your stupidities are going to be eternal is a very dark prospect. You think all foolishnesses are going to be eternal because everyone is eternal, but Gurdjieff says, ”No, the universe cannot tolerate you for so long unless you become something meaningful to the universe. Unless you become a part of the destiny of the cosmos, you are not needed. Why should you be eternal and why should you demand? Just to continue repeating this nonsense?” Gurdjieff says, ”Attain first; be a soul. You can be, but it is a crystallization. You have all the elements. Combine them, pass through an inner alchemy, and then a new thing will be born within you which will be a soul.”

So he says, ”Buddha has a soul, Jesus has a soul, and because they have souls they go on talking as if everyone has a soul. No! Do not be befooled by them!” Gurdjieff says, ”Do not be befooled by them! They have a soul and they know that they are immortal, but you are not, so do not be deceived by them.” And really, his teaching can be helpful, but we can turn anything into a harmful thing – even Gurdjieff’s teachings. Then we can say, ”If it is so rare, then it is not for us. It is beyond us.”

Nothing can be said to man which cannot be misused. The same mind will give new interpretations. So when I said that the world is a cosmic organic unity, that everything is interdependent, I meant by this that you are part of a great Whole and that great Whole is part of you: you are not alone. Through you the cosmos is progressing, evolving. You have a very deep mission, a great destiny. To realize this you will have to transform your total outlook, and that transformation starts only when you begin to feel responsible. If you feel that you are responsible, you can change. So make this principle of interdependence a help, a step toward self-transformation. Do not make it a hindrance.

And it is right that man is approximately already made in his childhood. There are many things implied.

One psychologist says that you are born as a tabula rasa – as a blank paper. Your first five or seven years write down everything upon that paper and that patterns your life: you go on repeat ing it.

In the first place, no one is born as a tabula rasa because this childhood is not the beginning, this life is not the beginning. So every child is not just a child, but many old men are within him – many lives. He has reached old age many times, and that memory is always preserved. The mind continues with it – so it is very complicated.

Psychologists will say that your parents, your education, your heredity, they determine everything. But the East knows something more. Eastern psychology knows something more because Eastern psychology says that this life is just one link in a great chain. And now, those in the West who have really gone deep into the human mind – for example, C. G. Jung – are also feeling that this life is not the beginning. No child is born as a child; he has many, many memories within him.

Eastern psychology says that it is not the parents who decide your life. Really, you have chosen them. You have chosen particular parents; you are responsible. If I am born to a particular mother and to a particular father, this is my choice. They will determine me because I have allowed them to determine me. I have chosen them because of so many actions in my past life. It is a chain.

So ultimately, I remain responsible. If I choose a very violent father or if I choose a very wise man, whatsoever my choice is it is my choice. Then they determine me, but this determination by parents, education, etc., is not ultimate. Ultimately, you remain the master; you can throw it at any moment. It is difficult, but it is not impossible.

It is very difficult because it is not just like throwing your clothes. It is like changing your skin. It is so deep-rooted in you, everything that has happened has gone so deep, that it has become your blood and bones: you are made of it. Now you cannot conceive of yourself apart from it. Your identity has become mixed with it. But, still, to throw it is not impossible. You can jump out of it!

Really, all yoga is concerned only with this: how you can get out of all the influences that have made you whatsoever you are; how to jump out of them, how to go beyond; how to go beyond your parents, how to go beyond your education, how to go beyond your heredity, how to go beyond your past lives. The whole science of yoga consists only of this: to help you go beyond. So we will take a few things concerning how this becomes possible.

Education, upbringing, gives you a particular identity, a particular image. You begin to feel, ”I am this.” Everyone has an image of himself: ”I am this.” A good man, a bad man, a religious man, an intelligent man or a stupid one, everyone has an image of himself which has been given by the society, by the parents, by education. How to throw this? Sannyas was a method to throw this.

So, you may not have observed the fact but Hindu society is divided into four classes – Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya, Sudra – but a sannyasin doesn’t belong to any caste, any class. If a Brahmin becomes a sannyasin, he is simply a sannyasin. If a Kshatriya becomes a sannyasin, he is simply a sannyasin. A sannyasin is beyond caste and class. When you were not a sannyasin but a householder, you were a Brahmin or something else. When you take a jump into sannyas you are no more a Brahmin, and the whole thing that was associated with being a Brahmin is thrown away.

When you become a sannyasin, you pass through a death ritual. Originally, sannyas meant death, so initiation was given at shmashans – cemeteries, burning places. A whole process was followed. Your head was shaved just like we shave the head of a dead man. You are dying to the society, to whatsoever you have belonged to. Then your name was changed because the name was part of your identity. And now your teacher will be your father, not your father; now you do not have any father or mother. Now you have a new start. You will have no home, you will have no caste, you will have no mother, no father, no wife, no husband, no relationship in the world. With a new name, there is a break, a gap. The past has dropped. Now you start from ABC. There were enemies, but now you cannot behave with them as you behaved before – that man has died. There were friends, but you cannot behave with them in the old way – that man has died.

There is a story.

A Buddhist monk was passing through a village. He belonged to that village before he took sannyas, and a beautiful girl loved him. She recognized the face. Of course, it had changed totally. It was difficult to recognize, and he was moving with so many bhikkhus - so many Buddhist monks. And they were all alike – the same clothes, shaven heads with no identities. But she recognized him, so she followed.

And then she said to the bhikkhu, ”You cannot deceive me. I recognize you; you are the same man.”

The monk said, ”Only the face is the same. The same man is no more: he has died.”

The girl said, ”But you loved me.”

The monk replied, ”I again say to you: that man is dead. If ever I meet him, I will relate your story. I will tell him that this girl still loves you. But I do not think that that meeting is possible again.”

This breaking away and the living of a new identity is what is basically meant by renunciation.

Buddha comes back to his home. Buddha’s father is angry, but Buddha says, ”Please, listen to me. I am not the same Siddharth who left the house.”

Of course, the father becomes more angry. He says, ”You are teaching me? I am your father. I have given you birth. I know you very well!”

Buddha again says, ”You do not even know yourself. How can you know me?”

This works as a fuel, and the father becomes even more angry. He begins to scream, ”What are you? How are you behaving with me? My own son, my own blood and bones! What are you saying to me?”

And Gautam Buddha says, ”Calm down, please, because that man who left your home, who lived with you, is already dead.”

This method of sannyas was used as a jump from the ”skin” which society had imposed on you. Then there were many methods to unlearn. I have been saying again and again that meditation is a deep unlearning. So whatsoever you have learned, unlearn it, throw it out! Be a clean sheet again! Whatsoever society has written, wash it out. It can be done. Meditation is the method – you can unlearn.

Education is the method to learn something; meditation is the method to unlearn. When you have unlearned your personality, when you have renounced the old identity, then only is something new possible. Otherwise you will move in a circle, and the circle is very strong. It is difficult to take the jump, but it is not impossible. And it is difficult only because you have not decided. If you have decided, then nothing is impossible. With the very decision, change starts.

It is related of Mahavir that he decided to leave his home. But his mother was alive, so she said, ”Do not go, do not renounce, unless I die. Do not ask again about renouncing the world. You talk of love and you talk of non-violence, but if you renounce the world it will be killing me, murdering me. So do not talk about it!” But even the mother was surprised, because then Mahavir never talked about it. The whole family was surprised. What type of renunciation, what type of sannyas, was this? Only once Mahavir talked of it; then the mother became angry, and he stopped.

For two years he would not talk about it. Then his mother died. He was returning home one day, so he asked his older brother, ”Now my mother is dead, so allow me to renounce the world.”

The brother became angry. He said, ”What nonsense are you talking? We are suffering a great loss. Mother has died and you are talking about renouncing now? Do not talk about it at all!” So Mahavir remained silent again for two years.

The whole family was again shocked. What type of renunciation was this? But then they began to feel that he was in the house, but he was not. He was absolutely absent. No one felt him as being present. He became just a shadow. Months would pass, and then suddenly someone would say, ”Where is Mahavir?” He was in the house. He became so absent that the whole family gathered one day and they said, ”If you are doing this, then it now becomes our duty to allow you to renounce. You can go, because, really, you have already gone.”

Mahavir left the house that very day. Someone asked him, ”Why didn’t you escape? Why didn’t you run away?”

He said, ”There was no need. I took the inner jump. The day I decided, I became a sannyasin. Only my shadow was there because my mother would have become disturbed. There was no need to leave. The shadow was there; the ’I’ was not there. The very day I decided, the thing had happened. These four years were just nothing for me. I was a shadow. I could have remained in that house forever.”

The day that one really decides to take the jump, the jump has already taken place, because the decision is the jump. Even to become aware that ”I am in a deep imprisonment”, to be aware of this, is to have moved out of it. Now, sooner or later, this imprisonment cannot be a prison for you.

But Western psychology is creating a very harmful attitude. They say that you are already complete, that when you are seven your destiny is fixed and now nothing can be done. If this becomes your thought, then nothing can be done – not because you are already complete, but because of this idea. If you say, ”Nothing can be done because now I am already complete. Everything has been put in my mind, so what can I do? Now I have to be in this imprisonment. This is my life”; if one thinks in this way, this very thinking will become the barrier. Otherwise there is no barrier.

So Western psychology has held the Western mind to be very irresponsible. The Western revolts of the youth and other rebellions, other destructive movements, they are really created by the Western psychology of the last fifty years. Freud is more responsible for this than Marx because he has said, ”You are already complete by seven years of age. Your parents are responsible: you are not responsible. So whatsoever you are doing – if you are a criminal, if you are a murderer – you cannot do anything; you have to be this way. Now your dead parents cannot be changed, and those dead parents are also not responsible: it is all because of their parents.”

So ultimately, Freud comes to the same conclusion as Christianity reached before – that Adam committed the sin and we are not responsible. He is responsible – Adam, the first father. Because of him everything is decided. Now we are born in sin and we will have to die in sin. If you move with Freud you will reach to the same conclusion. If parents are responsible, then ultimately Adam and Eve are responsible.

But how to change Adam and Eve now? This is impossible. So whatsoever is, IS – continues. This is not acceptance: this is defeatism. And human dignity is lost! If you cannot do anything, if you cannot transform yourself, you lose all human dignity. You have become just an automaton, a mechanical thing; you will run the course. Because your parents have given you a winding, you will run the course and then you will die. And in the meantime, if you have the opportunity you will give a winding to other fellows, and then you will continue.

This is most degrading. Man can change himself. That possibility is always with you. And this concept, this very concept that ”I can change myself”, starts the change. The revolution has begun.

And, lastly, it has been asked, ”Is it not necessary that the religious man should seek to bring about a radical change in the very pattern of society?”

The religious man is himself the radical change in the pattern of society – the religious man! He will not try to bring about any radical change in the society – he is the radical change!

 

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