Re: Cholesterol stones

 James, you know I love you, in a way that's illegal in several states...

Hmmm....  We may have to discuss that in detail at some point.

But aren't you conceding here that the main thing you take issue with is the name "Liver Flush?" If this forum was called the "Bile Purging Forum," wouldn't you have much less of a bone to pick? So much time and energy expended in these threads.

No, there is much more to it.  For example, the false claim that those big blobs people are passing are not real gallstones, they are primarily soap stones.  And the fact that they keep trying to hide the potential dangers such as the possibility of lodging a real gallstone in the bile ducts.  When something negative like this happens it will be all over the news and next thing you know more constricting laws are passed on alternative medicine.  So their ignorance not only puts people's lives in danger, but it also puts alternative medicines more at risk for over regulation.  And when people push proven bogus claims like passing 50mm gallstones, which by the way is physically impossible, again it gives all of alternative medicines a bad name as there are people out there looking for any lies being made for the sole purpose of trying to discredit alternative medicines altogether.  I have worked too hard for way too long to get real alternative therapies legitimized to have fools that know nothing about how the body really works to make up wild claims and send alternative medicines backward.  If "liver flushing" really worked then the LF supporters would have provided some real evidence to this by now. Instead they have danced around providing evidence and claimed I said things I did not say in an attempt to discredit me.  It is not going to wok though because unlike them I have done the research.  And as long as I can I am going to keep exposing the "liver flush" fraud because as I pointed out all it takes is one person getting hurt by this fraud to do a whole lot of harm to the alternative medicine movement.

You've already conceded that sludge builds up in the biliary system.

It can build up, that does not mean that it will or that gallstones will form.  Nor does this mean that people are passing real gallstones by doing these flushes.  Nor does it mean that these "flushes" are safe.  Since you have read my other posts I am sure you have seen my various posts about consuming small amounts of oil with meals and keeping the hormones in check to help prevent the formation of sludge and stones.  So I am not against the ingestion of oil.  I am simply advocating doing it in reasonable amounts to reduce the risk of lodging a real gallstone if present.  What they are advocating is akin to saying if two ibuprofen work to kill their pain then might as well take the whole bottle.  Their reasoning is stupid and dangerous.

The protocol in question causes bile to be expelled in larger quantities and at a faster rate than it otherwise would be. And because of this, people's livers and gallbladders are less congested. VeRy SiMpLe. Years of ignorance and unhealthy diet/lifestyles are being made up for.

And once again, IF there are any real gallstones present then ingesting such large amounts of oil could could cause a gallbladder attack, damage to the gallbladder wall, the lodging of a real gallstone in the bile ducts.......  Even worse I have see people ask if they can do these flushes without a gallbladder and they were being told yes!!!  Again, this shows the complete ignorance of some of the people pushing these so-called "liver flushes".  As you have seen if someone does not have a gallbladder I don't even recommend bitters for a very good reason.  Bitters, like large amounts of oil, would cause the dumping of large amounts of caustic bile in to the intestines.  This will burn the intestinal wall leading to diarrhea, electrolyte imbalances and will significantly increase the risk of intestinal cancers.  If these people are going to try and play doctor then they should at least learn some basics of medicine as well as human anatomy and physiology before they seriously hurt someone!!!

Sure, it's possible that a true stone could get lodged in a duct. But that's extremely rare.

Yes, I agree.  But much of that is because most of these people do not have real gallstones to begin with.  And again, all it takes is one injury and death and that will become the poster child for the anti-alternative medicine movement.  So is it worth the risk to you to have your rights to alternative medicines taken away over something that does not work in the first place?

And if someone has taken preparatory and precautionary measures (ultrasound of the area, days/weeks of debris softening, etc) the odds of a stone lodging are even more miniscule.

Not necessarily.  Many people are doing these "flushes" without even bothering to get proper diagnostics to begin with.  And how are they supposed to know when the stones are "softened" enough. Furthermore, if a stone is in the gallbladder and is larger than the bile ducts can expand (8mm) then there is still the risk of lodging a stone.  So people's health is being put at risk all based on the bogus claims that those big squishy green blobs are real gallstones, even though they have been proven to be primarily soap stones formed in the intestines from bile and the ingredients of the flush.

Let me put it this way.  If someone told you that they just received a notice that they received an inheritance from a Nigerian prince and they were sending $500.00 for the attorney fees would you speak up?  If so why?  Because it clearly is a fraud and the person can get hurt in the process.  Well  the "liver flushing" claims are no different.

 Is the risk any greater than taking a Tylenol?

Being that adverse events are not that common with Tylenol use, and the fact that there are many more people taking Tylenol than are doing "liver flushes" and the fact that most of these people doing "liver flushes" do not have real gallstones to begin with I would say they have roughly the same safety rate when all factors are balanced out.

People can accomplish in one flush what it takes weeks of bitters to accomplish.

Problem with this comment it that those big, soft, squishy green blobs are not really gallstones.  So you are comparing apples to amoebas.

Many people here just don't have the time. There is a sense of urgency. Some people are flirting with cancer, and other things.

And again, I have seen people tell others that they can do the "flushes" without a gallbladder, which increases their risk for cancer and other things.  Again the people reading the claims by the 'liver flush" supporters ARE NOT being told all the facts, nor all the dangers.

Anyway, my two cents. I've gotta go. Gotta drink my OO and GF juice.