Re: Sure, why do it unless you need to.

 so you are saying saponified olive oil sat in my stomach and liver for 3 to 6 months and then one day decided to roll out?

Where in the hell did you come up with that assumption?  I did not say anything even close to that.  This is a great example of why it is generally a waste of time to deal with people who actually believe in these bogus "flushes".  They twist words and evidence to fit their beliefs.

Regardless... fact is you can't prove that flushes don't clean out the liver, lumpy stones or not.

Again proof of my statement above.  What I am claiming is that those large masses people are passing are not real gallstones.  That has been proven.   You are putting the cart before the horse by changing the wording of what is being claimed.

As far as scans and what not.. it is well known that they do not catch everything.

Well known?  By who?  Which scans in particular? And since this is so well known let's see some printed material on this such as some actual studies showing this problem.  After seeing how you twist things I am definitely not going to simply take your word for it.

I know of several cases in particular where people have had their gall bladder removed even though the scans showed no stones, and guess what? They were filled with stones or had blockage that was not seen by the scan. Either way the scans are not full proof.

I would still like to see the proof of this.  Being that I know quite a bit about these scans I seriously doubt your claim.

The digestive system is still somewhat of a mystery that is a fact.

Not really unless you are reading textbooks from the 1700s.   We have learned quite a bit about the digestive system since those days.


How are you defining gall stones?

If you mean gallstones (not gall stones), also known as cholelithiasis, the majority are coagulations of precipitated cholesterol that in the later stages of growth can calcify.   Less common are pigment stones formed from bilirubin.  So how are you defining gallstones?  Saponified olive oil formed in the intestines?  Cholesterol-sterol complexes formed in the intestines?

How come sometimes when a person does a Liver Flush they pass these globbules(aka what people call stones) and other times they don't pass any stones? Why do they form sometimes and other times they do not from?

This has been explained over and over.  There are two forms of these pseudostones formed in the intestines.  Some are formed as a complex between the sterols in the oil and the cholesterol in the intestines from food and bile.  If bile release is low or the bile is not saturated with cholesterol then these so-called "stones" are not going to form.  Simple science!!!  Bile also plays a role in the saponification process due to its pH.  So again the bile to oil ratio plays a role in the saponification process.  And oil is not the only thing that controls bile release.  Other factors such as the magnesium and progesterone levels also play a role as both are smooth muscle relaxants to the gallbladder.  Again simple science, and shows that we know more about the digestive system that you realize.

How did I pass these stones without doing a cleanse?

Who said they were stones?  And you are forgetting that saponified oil and cholesterol-sterol complexes can form without doing flushes.  The reason is that we get fats in our diet that can be saponified and we also get sterols in our diets that bind the cholesterol from food and bile in the intestines.  This is why sterols or sterol sources are so frequently used to lower cholesterol.  If more people were obsessed with picking through their poop even when not doing the flushes they would also find little balls of saponified olive oil and sterol-cholesterol complexes in their feces.   This has even been demonstrated in cows from the saponification of fats in their diet by their bile.  These cows were not doing the so-called "liver flushes" but still passed these "soap stones".  So how do you explain these cows passing soap stones that look just like what you described even though they were  not doing any flushes?

How and where do these stones form? Especially when a flush is not taking place?

Explained above.  Now your turn. How did the cows produce the "stones" that look exactly like you described when they were not doing the so-called "liver flushes"?

Soap dissolves in water, olive oil soap dissolves quickly in water especially if it is warm.
If they are saponified...soap why don't they dissolve in the accompanying diarrhea or in the toilet bowl?

Soap dissolves slowly in water.  If you put a bar of soap in the toilet how long will it take to dissolve?  My turn.  So why is it that these so called "stones" passed by the so-called "liver flushes" melt when heated when REAL gallstones don't?  You are also forgetting about the sterol-cholesterol complexes that are formed and are more stable.  And why do the so-called "stones" float when real gallstones sink?  Why are these so-called "stones" a different color than REAL gallstones and why are they translucent when REAL gallstones are opaque?  Should I go on with more evidence that these big blobs people are passing are not real gallstones?

I need evidence for where these stones come from and so far nobody in the mode-earn medical establishment has been able to give me any answers. The closest thing they could say was that they didn't know. They couldn't provide any evidence they just said it was so...sound familiar?

Maybe you should have read through this forum or other areas of CZ where all this has been explained over and over and over........  Just because you refuse to look at the evidence presented does not mean it does not exist.

What about other oils that have been used to do liver flush? Why do the stones look pretty much the same?

For the same reason I explained above.  Saponificaiton of the oil in the intestines and from the sterols in the other oils biding cholesterol in the intestines.  Nothing magical about it, just simple proven science.  By the way you may want to search the posts about people adding dye to the oil then ingesting it.  Again this test proved the "stones" were formed in the intestines.

And finally not sure if I mentioned this one...

How do you pass these stones without doing a liver flush or even using olive oil for 3 - 6 months?

Again explained already above.  Saponification of fats in the intestines by alkaline substances such as bile and by biding of cholesterol by dietary sterols.  My question is why were you digging through your feces if you were not doing flushes at the time?

Your evidence has not been compelling so far, I am not convinced that theLiver Flushes "don't work". I tried it and I found the opposite, that in fact they have a profound affect on digestion. I think that there may need to be some clarity in the language used to explain such phenomena, but something happens. To say they "don't work" is laughable when one has experienced the immediate change in ones constitution prior to a liver flush.

Your evidence based stance is good and what not, but I don't see how you can prove that the liver flushes "don't work"
No doctor I have ever spoken to about it said flatly that they "don't work" They simply said they didn't know for sure. And they certainly were not willing to go and find someone to fund an experiment as such.

There is extremely compelling evidence that they don't work.  Just the fact that lab testing has confirmed that these were not real gallstones is pretty compelling.  And that is just the tip of the iceberg of the evidence provided that the big blobs people are passing are not real gallstones.

So at a point my own personal experiments have become much more valuable than some fantasy experiments that never took place but somehow they disprove that liver flushes had a profound affect.

How can you convince me that they "don't work" when I have experienced the opposite?

What is your evidence?

Been presented over and over.  Here and in other places.