Re: Why break a fast with fruit?

Hello kentdesmond and welcome.

Yes, I will consider our discourse as a friendly chit-chat & support for Bruce, but if you would like to take this further after this post, I think it will have to be moved into the debate forum by a mod'........me being one of them here!!!

I will take each paragraph of your post in chronological order and in response to your interesting comments.
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"I'm a proponent of intermittent fasting and paleolithic diets that are low in carbohydrates , moderately low in protein and high in fats. I have personally seen tremendous improvements in my own health since switching from the modern "healthy" neolithic diet (high carb, high protein, low fat) and wish to address the points you made in your post":
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Yes I have heard and read that Intermittent Fasting is very beneficial and where experiments on lower forms of life have shown that this increases longevity as does a calorie-restricted diet; I did plan to begin IF in the Spring after initial delays at the end of 2008 because of personal problems and commitments.
I was under the impression that the Paleolithic diet is high in protein, low on carbs' and high in fats and where this will be suited to many depending on the fairly recent vogue of metabolic typing I suppose.

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"- I never said Bruce should break his fast with "meat" (i take it you mean the conventional lean cuts). High amounts of protein are not good for the body, during fasting or not. On the other hand, consuming nothing but fruit for a week (or a lifetime like the fruitarians) is an equally bad idea. To save time, I won't go into detail why i think fructose is better or worse that other carbohydrates, but i will urge you to read wikipedia's article on fructose (specifically the sections on fructose metabolism and health effects). You also mentioned GI, which adds further problems to your argument. There are too many variables, and human metabolism too complex for us to use such a simple index such as GI to determine preference of one food over another.!
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Yes, I think it was Bruce that mentioned breaking his fast with meat, and yes again, I agree with you: high amounts of protein are not good for the body as many people discovered from the Atkins Diet!!
I am on record as stating that a fruitarian diet is not a healthy one and a bad idea, so absolutely I do agree with you again on that score...........
http://naturalhygienesociety.org/articles/drbass1.html


Yes, I have previously read wikpedias article on fructose and would agree with it if fructose is consumed in high amounts & in particular with HFCS added to many foods today, but the fructose content of fruits is in relatively small amounts as a sugar, and where fruit (in my opinion) should only constitute a part of the diet along the lines recommended by Natural Hygiene proponents. There are so many variables with what constitutes the proper diet of man that you have mentioned, so do not really have the space or the time to mention this further here, although I think the GI index can be a good guideline and starting point.
Personally I think the diet should be as close to that now recommended by modern Natural Hygienists: an organic 80% raw 20% cooked diet; vegetables, fruits, legumes, seeds, nuts, herbs, some dairy and meats including fish, and poultry. The Hunzas have fared extremely well on this diet, including minimal amounts of dairy, and where they have a very long and healthy lifespan.

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"I tend to think that dietary carbohydrates in general aren't the best fuel for our metabolisms (especially if we are trying to manage body fat as Bruce is) , and more recently (last 80 years perhaps) have led to the omission of many important dietary fat sources, and their associated fat soluble nutrients. As an additional note: the fat/protein sources I advocate are mostly saturated and mostly animal based (butter, cheese, bone marrow, liver, brain, fatty muscle, some nuts and seeds)".
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I agree with this last paragraph above and where saturated fats generally have had a bad press and where I do also advocate consuming saturated fats including butter in minimal amounts. I also think that the omission or imbalance of the omega essential fatty acids can't be understated.
I strongly advocate proper food combing for Bruce in the management of body-fat and recommend the Hay Diet and the food combining recommended by Dr Shelton and Hygienists generally: this is based on the experience of many (including myself)in achieving permanent weightloss and control by avoiding a predominantly protein food with a predominantly starchy food at the same meal; if this is not adhered to will result in putrefaction and fermentation within the stomach and therefore excessive weight-gain. It is also known that by avoiding these combinations one can eat to satiety and not feel hungry thereafter.......and still lose weight.

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"The NORMAL state of anyones metabolism is the burning of glucose for energy; the Brain for example requires much glucose for its normal operation."

- Gluconeogenesis occurs alongside ketosis (in the liver AND kidneys) producing glucose for our precious brains. This metabolic process can use lactate, glycerol, and amino acids. Ketones provide the bulk of Bruce's energy (even for his brain!) during his fast, but the glucose is still there in small amounts.
Whether or not a low carb diet and the associated ketosis and gluconeogenesis are preferable to higher carb diets, and their associated metabolic processes is under debate by many parties. The winner was quite clear to me when I began intermittent fasting and a low carb diet."
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Yes it is true to say that Gluconeogenesis occurs whilst fasting on water only and where glucose is still required as part of energy expenditure: I did not however say that it didn't, and where I was previously referring to FULL ketosis (on a water only fast) as opposed to PARTIAL ketosis (while receiving external nourishment); after all that is why people lose weight on a diet, as their calorific intake does not meet their calorific expenditure which kick-starts the burning of fat via ketosis.

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"If the body remained permanently in a state of ketosis you would eventually reach the skeleton condition and die of starvation. "

- This is only true if Bruce did not break his fast. Ketosis (fat burning) can continue on a low carb diet. At the moment , the fat source is Bruces' "love handles" , but it could just as easily be dietary fats fueling ketosis.

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As mentioned above, I still hold by my statement concerning the skeleton condition and death from starvation, but I omitted to mention that this would only occur in a state of FULL ketosis via water only, so you were quite right in pointing this out.

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"I just hope Bruce doesn't overdo the carbs (fruit or otherwise) when he stops fasting. It would be a shame to see insulin do it's job and put back on all the fat he has lost. That would really give the anti-fasting crew over at bodybuilding.com alot of ammunition".

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Breaking the fast with carbs' has always been traditional, and been found to be beneficial via fruit or its juices as this is of a high water content, but is considered to be a very short term measure in re-feeding, and not by any means an exclusive diet to be followed indefinitely, so there should be no worries re' weight gain on that score.
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Regards

Chrisb1.


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