What about the guys that are trying? 
Precis
21 y
2,661
† Cross †
Hey All,
We see many postings about the "scumbag" boyfriend/husband and the advice is often along the lines of "leave the batard...".
I guess you would have to put me into that category of scumbag!
But what about those of us that have seen the error of our ways and are making a genuine attempt to change?
My wife and I have been married for seven years - the last two separated. It the second marriage for both of us. I am 46 and she is 45.
I have a history of alcohol abuse, but had been sober for over a year - thanks to AA - when we meet and started dating.
Our marriage got off to a rocky start with her getting pregnant and us moving into a new house with her three children.
Family is very is very important to her - which I accept - but in my opinion there are real co-dependency and control issues there.
Her family has always interfered with our relationship and I have never been able to seperate our family from her family. Her sister and nephew lived with us for a year and I was never asked if it was okay - she just let them move in because thats what her family does and if I didn't like it, I was an inconsiderate bastard.
This pattern was repeated in almost all aspects of our relationship. It was unthinkable to suggest that we spend the holidays with my family, holidays were always with her family - no discussion! If someone from her family needed something, she would drop everything and go, regardless of what we had planned.
When we bought a new house, she let her mother and uncle move in with us because they we old and needed someone - neither of them are hurting for money.
I started drinking and it got worse and worse - I tried to keep it secret - but she caught me repeatedly and each time I would promise never to do it again and would quit long enough to get back in her good graces and start again vowing to be more careful not to get caught! I was never physically abusive and am a hard worker, it was my way of dealing with the stress and frustration of a worsening relationship.
To make a long story short, I couldn't stand living with her mother who is very controling and bossy and treated me like I had no right to do anything in my own house so I moved out.
Now after 2 years of separation, she tells me she will never trust me again. Also she has a huge list of rules and regulations that I must follow to the letter of the law if I even want to have a chance at reconcilation. I am now 7 months sober, regained my spiritual center and have met every one of her demands. But she keeps raising the bar in an attempt to cause me to fail. Frankly - I love her so much, but cannot stand being around her because of her attitude. She has not filed for divorce and says she hasn't been lead to do so yet. I think she's waiting for me to find another good job - I'm got laid off - so she can negoiate a better deal.
So - what do you all think? Any and all advice is welcome...- Re: What about the guys that are try... Southern Belle
21 y
2,472
This is a reply to # 61,435Well, first of all, you need to stop beating yourself up for the mistakes in the marriage. From what you have written, she has missed the mark and needs to be looking into ways of changing herself.
To allow her family to run your lives is not good. To allow her family to move in with you is worse! That is incredible!!!!
You sound like a really decent guy and you are far from being a scumbag.
As you have stated, you love her, so why don't you let her read the post you have written and see how she reacts. You will have more answers to this post, so let her read all the answers, too.
If you two are going to make it, you will need to distance yourself from her family. The drinking on your part will take care of itself. It sounds like you already have that under control.
Marriage counseling is good, too.
Paulette G.- Re: What about the guys that are try... Precis
21 y
2,613
This is a reply to # 61,436Paulette,
We were going to a marriage counselor - as one of her 'demands' - but as soon as he started to put some of the issues on her and that she shared responsibility, she started saying that he was pushing her to make decisions she wasn't ready to. Evently, she decided we were wasting our time because she felt that unless we could become friends again we were NEVER going to have a marriage!
She is always saying that she wants to go out and have some fun, but when I am around her she becomes very vindictive. She will go out with her sister or daughter (18) and meet other guys which she swears are 'just friends' and all she is doing is having fun. She treats total strangers better than me - she even invited her ex-husband to spend Christmas Day with them. When I ask why she can't be that nice to me - her husband - she says that their not trying to get into her life!
As I'm writing this I'm beginning to realize how much it sounds like a really bad soap-opera... :>}- Re: What about the guys that are try... Southern Belle
21 y
2,516
This is a reply to # 61,437You know, the reason she may be treating you this way is because she knows she can.......
Have you thought about that?
I bet if you suddenly become unattainable, you will find out quickly her true feelings. Go out with your friends and do things JUST FOR YOU. Don't call her----don't see her and then when you do, keep everything short and to the point...
Try it and let me know how it works.
Paulette- Re: What about the guys that are try... Precis
21 y
2,452
This is a reply to # 61,438Actually I can already tell you...
I've been doing that for the past couple of months. She says that I'm being rude and inconsiderate! If I was really interested in showing her how I felt I would go out of my way to make her feel special and show an interest in her activities. She knows I was never the jealous type so sometimes I think she enjoys seeing me squirm.
I have always had a lot of plutonic women friends - with only one exception and that happened 20 years ago - and she suggested that I consult with them on the proper way to talk to and treat a woman because I haven't got a clue. When I shared this with several of them and and asked them what I do wrong they burst out in hysterical laughter with tears in there eyes they said they couldn't believe she would actually say something like that and mean it!
She has always had a thing about sending her flowers. She felt that it was killing them and would much rather have something live. On her last birthday we had had a fight several days before and I really didn't want to go out. I was polite but distant. She got pissed! She told me some guy her daughter had introduced her to had given her flowers he had picked from his yard and gave her a kiss. She said that had made her day and made her feel sooooo special! I am sure that if I showed up with flowers she'd spit on me and throw the flowers in the trash!
You get the picture...
Doug
- Re: What about the guys that are try... UserX
21 y
2,526
This is a reply to # 61,439Doug,
Boy, it sounds like a whole lot of pain! It's hard enough for a family to blend when there are step-children, an X, a pregnant wife and new home...but to thrust other family members into the mix seems really unreasonable and rather selfish on your wife's part. One of the hats that I wear is a psychologist and too many times I've seen wives drag their husbands into therapy and then run for cover when their own contribution to the problems is exposed. Expecting you to jump through all these hoops is just another way to keep the focus off of her and point the finger at you...and until she starts taking some responsibility for your marital problems your likely to be miserable and there's not much promise for your marriage.
It also sounds like you've done a fine job of getting some aspects of your life back in order since you've been seperated. Did you ever consider that you may actually be healthier and happier on your own? Rather than letting her control the situation by setting all the rules, why not make up your own rules for yourself and live by them?...and she can take it or leave it. At least you'll feel better about yourself because she certainly doesn't seem to have much respect for you!- Re: What about the guys that are try... Gill
21 y
2,463
This is a reply to # 61,440
*~*Doug*~*
Throughout my life I have met and known many people with the same "personality traits" that your wife has. When you put them all together in one pile they come under the heading of "Selfishness".......
Of course selfishness is the opposite of consideration, so if I were you I would face the fact that some people missed grasping the quality of consideration, but instead embraced the self fulfilling habit of using emotional control to get what they want, and many times they don't even want it, they just want to see if they can GET it!! Albeit the bar going up and up! Can I ask what it is that you love about her? Not prying just curious..
BTW....Your original question? Women just seem to be able to discuss emotional stuff, in fact some women will talk about it every chance they get!!! lol.... I think if ..like you have done, men and women could connect like this and ask for advice etc. I think we could get thru the emotional maze alot easier. I have some unanswered questions about men, and who are the experts on men?....Men of course!!
- Re: What about the guys that are try... Precis
21 y
2,542
This is a reply to # 61,460Gill...
Believe me - you are not the only person asking me that question! I've been asking myself the same thing.
The answer is that when we meet and fell in love, she was one of the most caring/loving people I had ever met. She is a midwife and home schools the kids.
After 7 years of being married to me, she has become depressed, bitter and all those other things I described. In a lot of ways I feel I drove her to the brink with my behavior and now I want everything to be like it was - is that wrong on my part?
I think we could work things out if she would get the chip off her shoulder!
Doug
- Re: What about the guys that are try... Precis
21 y
2,542
- Re: What about the guys that are try... Gill
21 y
2,463
- Re: What about the guys that are try... #166710
21 y
2,498
This is a reply to # 61,439Hey! I see something (by experience) that you don't. Or was that a typo? Did you say something about knowing women platonically TWENTY years ago. When a person leaves you with a memory that is that old, and that memory is not a happy one, but one of ridicule and debasement (belittlement), then you are being TRAUMATIZED (and always have been since that event). REALIZE IT! Be more critical of your relationship and your position in it. You might notice yourself avoiding her at times because she is a PAINFUL experience. No decent person on earth wants to be avoided. Most people who are the kind of person that people will avoid, just don't know it and would even appreciate knowing it (if only someone would be so kind, loving, forgiving and humane to explain and point it out to them that they are BEING like that). Sit her down and explain that to her. OF COURSE it's not that simple. The catch is COMMUNICATION. Proper and effective communication is inconsistent with Human Nature. She will resist proper and effective communication, but will appreciate the sincere and GENUINE attention (no one else in her life gives her that attention). Keep the lines of communication open, it may take some time and you will be tempted to give up, but don't, you'll just be another dissappointment to her (subconsciously) like everybody else who abandons her. Do not let her feel GUILTY (only self-conscious and remorsefull so that she can make up for it by changing). If she starts to feel guilty, she will see that as an attack and everything will be destroyed. She IS conscientous, you just have to reach inside her heart and touch that quality.
- Re: What about the guys that are try... ANON
21 y
2,647
This is a reply to # 61,468Who's been abandonned here?! It doesn't sound like she has - more like she's the one who does the abandonning, of her husband anyway.
It's not a husband's job to be a therapist.- Re: What about the guys that are try... #163757
21 y
2,710
This is a reply to # 61,469Right, it should be CONSIDERED a job. It may or may not be considered a right, not that it matters.
It should be considered a
PRIVELEDGE.
Sometimes you just gotta say LATER FOR RIGHTS, LATER FOR RESPONSIBILITIES (JOBS) and just do what's in your heart. We all have to ask ourselves...WHAT'S IN OUR HEART? Isn't that what we're talking about here...the heart?- Re: What about the guys that are try... #163758
21 y
2,433
This is a reply to # 61,470Sorry for the mistake on the previous post, it should read...it should NOT be considered a job.
I only have PERSONAL ethics to consider and do not have a high regard for RIGHTS in such (personal) matters.- Well Ok, how about this! Gill
21 y
2,624
This is a reply to # 61,471
Well Doug you have shed some light on your problem when you describe the lady you fell in love with in the first place.
Maybe she's not the horrible cow we all thought!! (lol)...
She sounds like she is the nurturing kind, maybe she loves her family (siblings) so much that she feels it's natural to just spend every opportune moment with them. Tho' it does sound very unfair when you describe how it has eaten into any type of time you ever get to spend together or visiting your family. Do you have a close and loving relationship with your family?
Maybe you behaved like an bush pig when your drinking problems were around, maybe you said cutting things about her family which would make her defensive about you. Whether there is a reason or not, there aren't many people who can forgive arguments over family, if personal stabs were given. Maybe I am wrong about this.
Doug something made you turn to drinking, and you know what it is.... and you need to ask yourself if the same circumstances are still there...lurking...
If you were given the chance to reconcile, with all the good intentions on both sides to really give it a good shot, would there still be anything going on in your lives that hasn't changed, that could eventually push you in the direction of turning to drinking again?
You sound so sincere, and god only knows it's hard when you love someone so much and you can't make things better just being yourself, or really trying and still it is't enough.
I wonder if you did everything she asked, and behaved the way she wants you to, would you still be you, or would you be someone you've never known before.....
I think she is hurting, and you are hurting, but I don't know if they make a bandaid big enough...- Re: Well Ok, how about this! Precis
21 y
2,454
This is a reply to # 61,472Gill...
You are a very perceptive person and have actually verbalized the situation better than I would have ever been able to! Your observations are - for all practical purposes - 100% correct!
She actually contacted me the other day and wanted to talk. We ended up talking for three hours - without yelling or arguing once.
When we were done - she reluctantly agreed to make another go at it - slowly. She said the reason she wanted to talk was to tell me that it was over, but after talking to me she changed her mind - she says I am a very persuasive person. I was making a consious effort to be considerate and calm, but wasn't actually trying to talk her into anything.
We have talked a couple times since then and it went well. I think she is sincere and warming back up to me, though she admits she still has a lot of doubts.
Thank you all so much - keep the great advise coming!- Re: Well Ok, how about this! Gill
21 y
2,503
This is a reply to # 61,473Warming is nice, and you guys sound like you have taken a step in the right direction, communicating....maybe she too is remembering all the things about you that made her fall in love with you in the early times.
Oftentimes I forget when I have been in a relationship, that as time passes, peoples wants and needs change. We change and it isn't always in the same direction, but it doesn't mean you still can't grow together and enjoy each other.
Sometimes it's just hard to be the person someone else wants, or use to be. But as long as you know who you are, and what you need in your life, most things usually fall into place when your involved with someone you love.
Maybe if the ugly monster ever rears it's head again you can just explain that you are being asked to be involved in things that just don't make you happy. And in all honesty, if we aren't happy how can we possibly be expected to do things that keep other people happy? And what makes us happy? Having choices and doing things because we WANT to, not because we know if we don't we are going to "Be in trouble".....like a school kid!!
I wish you all the best Doug and hope you end up where you want to be, but just remember not to cower like a dog every time you wonder if you are stepping a foot wrong...remember we were born as individuals and owned by noone...
PS....How about living flowers in a pot?....(wink)
- Re: Well Ok, how about this! Gill
21 y
2,503
- Re: Well Ok, how about this! Precis
21 y
2,454
- Well Ok, how about this! Gill
21 y
2,624
- Re: What about the guys that are try... #163758
21 y
2,433
- Re: What about the guys that are try... #163757
21 y
2,710
- Re: What about the guys that are try... ANON
21 y
2,647
- Re: What about the guys that are try... UserX
21 y
2,526
- Re: What about the guys that are try... Precis
21 y
2,452
- Re: What about the guys that are try... Southern Belle
21 y
2,516
- Re: What about the guys that are try... Precis
21 y
2,613
- Re: What about the guys that are try... mind boggles
21 y
2,486
This is a reply to # 61,435I think your wife has serious control issues. Sheis most likely to be very spoiled by her family and emotional blackmail comes naturually to her. The only thing you can do is change yourself. You cannot change others unless they want to. It seems you have already done all you can, yet she still believes you are fighting against her. Do you tell her how much you love her and how much she is hurting you? Please try to live your own life as much as you can and don't let it effect your relationship with your children. I congratulate you on getting your drinking problem sorted so quickly. Keep it up.
best of luck- Re: What about the guys that are try... jophil
21 y
2,494
This is a reply to # 61,451Your stuation is more common than you may realize.
I quit drinking in 1990 and was active in AA for several years after that.Immediately after I quit,my wife changed .She became more demanding and hostile( like yours) and I could not understand why,so I asked my sponsor. He just smiled and said " Sobriety sometimes wrecks marriages". I asked him to explain and he did -
" When you were drinking, she carried most of the responsibility and had most of the power -women who marry alcoholics are all like that. When you quit and started to work the AA program you not only get sober and well, you regain you own power and self respect back. You wife does not want this to happen. She figures that she has
worked harder than you, driven the kids all over and picked them up,paid the bills on time and made excuses for your drinking , therefore, in her mind you have no right to be her equal just because you quit. She wants you to be back down where you were without the booze." Sound familiar? There is an organisation called Al-Anon for women like your wife - she is now much sicker than you. You are recovering and plenty confused. BTW, I left my marriage after my wife got more demanding and then started to provoke me constantly. She was so unsettled by my sobriety that she tried to provoke me to anger hoping that I would resume drinking and things would go back to the way they were when she was in control...I hear the same theme in your story ...John.- Re: What about the guys that are try... Precis
21 y
2,448
This is a reply to # 61,475John...
I also lost a previous relationship after I sobered up about 10 years ago. She thought once I stopped drinking and sincerely started working the program that all our problems would go away. She had never known me when I was coming from a place of sobriety and didn't know how to handle it. When it was suggested to her that she maybe seek some help herself she went ballistic, stating that she wasn't the one with the problem!
After a year of sobriety, I met my current wife and got married - vowing that alcohol would not destroy this relationship. I felt I didn't need AA anymore and as a result began drinking in secret again after a couple years.
She has a history of alcoholics in her family. Her father and first husband were both alcoholics. Several of her brothers are probably alcoholics also - but won't admit they have a problem. Her and her family have a prejudice against 'real alcoholics' like me and are constantly comparing me to an uncle they all hated!
This is her biggest concern about getting back together. You are also correct about her taking control. She says she wants a 'partner' but is unwilling to let go of her demanding attitude!
BTW - She does attend Al-anon. I think this is one of the problems because it is a small group of bitter women whose answer for relationship problems always seems to be, "Leave the bastard!".
Thanks for the input...- Re: What about the guys that are try... Gill
21 y
2,480
This is a reply to # 61,476Hi! Doug...I left you a post but inadvertantly put it under the post you sent to me last....
- Re: What about the guys that are try... Gill
21 y
2,480
- Re: What about the guys that are try... Precis
21 y
2,448
- Re: What about the guys that are try... jophil
21 y
2,494
- Re: What about the guys that are try... jophil28
21 y
2,482
This is a reply to # 61,435Are you serious? How long do you intend to lie down to "accomodate her" .Your whole post is one long sorry self pitying tragedy. You say that you love her so much yet cannot bear too be around her.Huh? For your sake, you need professional help fast.
Expand 12 messages, 21 to 32 of 32 Precis
21 y
2,566
- Re: What about the guys that are try... Southern Belle
21 y
2,472
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