Stage 3 adrenal exhaustion 
Meghill16
8 y
3,002
† Cross †
I have stage 3 adrenal exhaustion and have for a long time due to constantly detoxing from Lyme Disease, it's co-infections and gut issues. Now I am unable to tolerate most supplements and medications suggested for adrenal fatigue. They all put me into "fight or flight" and I feel anxious, overly stimulated and then seem to crash even further. They used to make me feel calmer and more present in the past before my adrenal fatigue reached this point. I love Dr Lams point of view on this topic and I can fully relate to the way he describes what happens once you reach this point of exhaustion. I'm in a bad crash right now from some b12 I was taking and I am having blurry vision, foggy head, fatigue and eye floaters. My eye is twitching too. Before this crash I was doing better but overly stimulated from the b12 and some NADH and other b vitamins given to me for genetic issues (MTHFR). Anyways- any thoughts on how to let adrenals recover at this stage? I feel I need to quit all killing of infections because it's too much stress on my adrenals and stop all stimulating supplements too... Any help is much appreciated.
Megan
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- How's your intake of macrominerals? ... illys / elisah
8 y
2,892
This is a reply to # 2,306,444Are you doing any other mineral, herbal or vitamin supplementation?
I've found magnesium, calcium and silica really help mitigate a good deal of the dieoff symptoms.
In magnesium, Mg Chloride (spray for the skin) and Mg Taurate (as a supplement) has given me the least issues. ( Epsom Salts can be problematic for lyme, I've gotten major brainfog within 8 hours after baths and liver-flush-level intake. It is a bit too easy for coinfections to use as a foodsource.)
BTW, Mg and manganese are on a seesaw, and Manganese is /vital/ to the metabolisim and reproduction of lyme spirochetes. Having a higher intake of Magnesium than manganese (which is quite high in the soil in the eastern seaboard and mid-eastern parts of the united states) in the blood has potential in reducing a lyme infection.
In calcium, the bentonite/psyllium drink is really nice and calming/ uplifting. The dry skin is annoying though, and I find eggshell powder/tricalcium phosphate to be much better tolerated by my system. (Ca by the way is antiviral, I was so happy to find that out!)
Lastly silica in the form of diatomaceous earth is really good to balance out calcium intake and help with clearing some of the infections. For lyme issues I think you might want to start only at the 1/4 tsp level.
Background: type 1 diabetic, dealing with some of the same co-infections that show up with lyme, mycoplasma. Dunno if bartonella is involved, but yeah...
Thoughts are that you might be really low on the minerals needed for buffering those dieoff toxins out of the body and be in a rather acidic state! :o
B12 without magnesium, B1, folate, zinc, selenium and it's other cofactors is likely to give those downward spirals- it's my experience that bad reactions to vits can come if your body has to draw on it's background resources to process a sudden overflow of one or another nutrient.
Also taking B's without magnesium raises blood Sugar levels! Which was.. a major revelation for me. Suddenly I could take Bs like a normal person. :)
But I take a lot less B12 than Mg, Ca and silica. <.<
I reccommend google searches on those minerals, like 'calcium and sleep', 'calcium and anxiety', 'magnesium and anxiety', 'magnesium and detoxification', 'silica and energy' :-)
B12, eye twitches, eye issues- I have gotten the twitchy eyelid issues on and off too, and those definately improve/subside with proper Mg/Ca intake. With eye issues, eyebright herb and wild blueberry/acai berry is especially good.
- Re: How's your intake of macrominera... Meghill16
8 y
2,549
This is a reply to # 2,306,452Thank you for the message, I really appreciate your time. I have actually been taking Epsom Salt baths almost every night with a lot of salts and I do feel bad after- they help me sleep but seem to cause my low blood pressure to drop even further and I have also been taking very high doses of magnesium glycinate before bed to help with anxiety and sleep. I tend to overdue things. I feel that it may be contributing to the fatigue and foggy head in the morning... I was taking b12, niacin, b1 and riboflavin...I just went off of them because they were too stimulating for me at this time. I eat a low carb Paleo diet high in healthy fat and green veggies. I drink salt water in the morning. I just bought some electrolyte tablets yesterday and started those. Not sure what else to do besides go off of the only supplements I am taking which are fish oil and the magnesium. I have tried calcium supplements in the recent past and feel horrible when I take calcium for some reason. I try and get it through diet.
- Re: How's your intake of macrominera... illys / elisah
8 y
2,769
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This is a reply to # 2,306,513Well, the body prefers to store calcium in the form of calcium phosphate. The levels of calcium in the blood are regulated by the parathyroid glands (just behind the thyroid in the neck), which combines those two elements if the levels need to be lowered. That could be why you had issues with calcium supplements, if you didn't have enough phosphate around in your system at that time to handle the influx of calcium.
I haven't tried magnesium glycinate myself, but can definately relate to the low blood pressure side effects too! Is always a Q of suiting intake to meet one's needs.
You list B12, b1, b2, and b3 (niacin and riboflavin)- that mix is still missing b6 and folate (and b6 is a phosphate vitamin). :) B6 as pyroxidal-6-phosphate (active form of B6) gives vibrant dreams.
The electrolyte tablets sound interesting, probably a better-balanced mix?
Struggling with anxieties may indicate low phosphate and zinc levels. It's listed on several pyroluria sites, and there's some decent reading available on it. ( http://www.digitalnaturopath.com/cond/C371961.html )
Good on ye with the diet! That's the same intake I find really helps bloodsugar levels. :)- Re: How's your intake of macrominera... Meghill16
8 y
2,484
This is a reply to # 2,306,636I am or I was taking that combo of b vitamins through my genetic specialist and she did want me to add the folate in but I was too scared because I have had really bad reactions in the past. I have the MTHFR mutation so I don't absorb vitamin b12 and folate well- actually my labs show normal folate and very elevated b12... When I take the methyl forms I feel pretty awful because it's opening up my detox pathways. She never said anything about b6 for some reason and I do know that is important but I also get a lot of it in my diet.
I tried a much lower dose of the magnesium last night and feel much better on just the 200mg before bed. I need it to help me sleep and it really knocks me out.
My zinc is actually high on my labs and I do take it but I stopped a few days ago when I decided to stop all supplements for a few days and slowly add stuff back in. Right now I'm just taking the electrolyte tabs and magnesium before bed.
I see my Lyme doctor in a few weeks and I'm hopeful he can help me figure some stuff out.
Thanks so much for the info!- Re: How's your intake of macrominera... WhoAreYouNormally
8 y
2,655
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This is a reply to # 2,306,661try beets, brewer's yeast and some prebiotics: cooked onion or chicory, 2-3 teaspoons ground coriander seed 1-3x per day, high sodium diet for 2-3 weeks then 1 sauna per week.
i'm on target, low dose of magnesium worked out :)
how much does the gene specialist charge vs free advice here.- Re: How's your intake of macrominera... Meghill16
8 y
2,489
J.Crow’s® Lugol’s Iodine
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Original Hulda Clark
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This is a reply to # 2,306,672Thank you for your suggestions. The genetic specialist works with me on my genetic defects- mostly MTHFR issues but hormonal issues as well and we are about to do the organic acid test... She is trying to get to the bottom of things currently and seems fixed on ruling out gut issues such as SIBO. She wants me to do a stool test, just trying to only get testing that my insurance can cover from here on out. I have worked with her for two months and I would say I have spent around $1,000, which includes the hormone testing.- Re: How's your intake of macrominera... WhoAreYouNormally
8 y
2,640
This is a reply to # 2,306,689Yea well I hope she can help you but my limited experience is these people are myopic in approach, not as bad as whitecoats but loosely of the same cloth. The latest 'word on the street' was that resolving gut issues was more important than anything in the realm of genetic testing.
Sibo is a given, liver congestion is a given, stool tests are a waste of time and money and since she is not aware of this I'm just letting you know what's what. Elisa testing is supposedly more accurate than stool. parasites are a given in lyme, it seems like a quorum sensing festival of multiple species is involved very close to 'the root' cause, not that I believe there is a single root cause. Heavy metal poisoning is also either a given or extremely probable. I'm trying to save you time in figuring these things out for yourself.
Your lady sounds like an amateur, but I sincerely hope I'm completely wrong and she cures you tomorrow though.
I would look into gelatin broth and natasha campbell too.
For estrogen dominance you want to look at Ray Peat. There are millions of people eating plastic and flax who don't grow breasts, so imo the issue is hormonal clearance from the liver... hence beets, coffee enemas and anything you can do to get bile moving. Getting your liver resolved is roughly half of the cure.
You can also look into Stephen Buhner's herbs if you haven't yet.
- Re: How's your intake of macrominera... Meghill16
8 y
2,571
This is a reply to # 2,306,691I appreciate your suggestions and agree with a lot of your points. Much of what you have mentioned I have done already. Started coffee enemas and Liver Flushes in 2007. Have done more than I can count. Have stopped those because I feel quite clean and toxin free in that area. Digestion has been great. I did the GAPS diet on and off for over 3 years and continue to have bone broth almost daily. GAPS is really one of the best healing tools I have used to date. I've done heavy metal chelating twice. I agree about stool tests being a waste of money that's what I was just saying to myself when she mentioned me doing one- I would only do if insurance covered. I've done parasite cleanses, zappers etc. with Lyme it's a lot of infections and chaos going on at once. I've been working at this for over ten years. Some things are gone or better- fatigue and adrenal stuff is worse. I believe my body is just so taxes from all of the herxing all these years. I could be wrong. I'm on a very low carb diet right now- thinking of going back into Ketosis but wondering if my adrenals and thyroid need more carbs.
- Re: How's your intake of macrominera... WhoAreYouNormally
8 y
2,636
This is a reply to # 2,306,709Low carbohydrate is a terrible idea. I know what the impetus is but you need to find a way to get your sugars in without getting set back.
You said a few posts up that if you stop doing all cleansing that's the best you feel. I think you should pay attention to that. That's why I was specfic about certain things and keeping everything very gentle so as not to rock the boat.
I do think it is strange that your digestion is good but you're not doing well with energy, this doesn't add up.
You could get a hair test to double check on where your metals are at. If your liver is in decent shape then charge it up with sugars. Chelation is technically a good thing to do but even if you do it perfectly you can wind up moving metals into the liver and lymphatic system, thinking that you dumped them when you didn't. Or in other words lyme herxing can be misinterpreted as killing spirochetes or any of the elusive lyme pathogens but you're really just movng metals around and releasing them into circulation when killing bugs. If your liver is 1000% working and dumping bile then you should in theory not be herxing too terribly - I know lyme is complex but the basics usually apply to everything.
Anything you do that does not yield steady progress, no matter how slow, should be reconsidered.
Zappers for parasites, ehhh been there and don't buy it, doubly so for monsters.
Sauna is slow motion chelation without the damage and it guarantees stuff gets out and stays out.
Adrenals want vit. c, fat, protein, broad spectrum minerals, sodium and vit. b5 from bee products.
Have a look at Ray Peat re sugars and stress.
- Re: How's your intake of macrominera... Meghill16
8 y
2,517
This is a reply to # 2,306,711I think at this point b5 would be too stimulating for me and perhaps even the vitamin c...anyways thanks for all of the suggestions!
- Re: How's your intake of macrominera... joegrane
8 y
2,517
This is a reply to # 2,306,719"I think at this point b5 would be too stimulating for me and perhaps even the vitamin c...."
Are you basing this on Science or fear?
I'm not being critical of you. I've been through this with a close female friend with a history of decades of PTSD.
Some chemically sensitive people are sensitive to new things when given in doses that are too generous.
You might start with tiny amounts of B5, vitamin C and other things that theoretically should be helpful to someone with your symptoms.
When we are stuck in a situation where the mainstream doctors don't have much for us, what alternative is there but to consider the reasonable theories about what might be helpful and proceeed with reasonable caution.
Sometimes a little medication or supplements takes the edge off of of some of the symptoms and we can function better as we look for more fundamental reasons for the health problems.
- Re: How's your intake of macrominera... joegrane
8 y
2,517
- Re: How's your intake of macrominera... joegrane
8 y
2,579
This is a reply to # 2,306,711"Zappers for parasites, ehhh been there and don't buy it, doubly so for monsters."
Could you kindly share a little of your experience with the zapper?- Re: How's your intake of macrominera... BeHealed16
8 y
2,424
This is a reply to # 2,306,799The zapper was done at the office of a chiropractor trained in digestive issues. I'd use it for an hour at his office every few weeks but he did a lot of energy work after to help drain the toxins. Sounds pretty out there I know. He did NAET, etc. I would feel better after zapping but the parasites kept coming back- I could tell by symptoms and see them when I got colonics. I finally saw a new doctor for the Lyme and confections that treats the infections with magnets and the parasites went away that way- it's been 6.5 months with no symptoms and so sight of any parasites... They are common for Lyme patients. I'm sure especially for those who took a lot of Antibiotics like myself.
- Re: How's your intake of macrominera... WhoAreYouNormally
8 y
2,598
This is a reply to # 2,306,799Imo zappers don't work for large parasites. To get the big ones out you have to use the big guns, either strong meds, high raw high enzyme foods, strong herbs at 10x normal dose, high dose diatomaceous earth, or a complete multifaceted gut cleansing program. I don't even think they work at all for any visible parasites, maybe they work for minor league bacterias. (cue the entrance of parazapper salesman underwhelmingingaire in 3,2,1)
This opinion is shared by virtually all other credible people on cz who have been through the process.
There are a few stragglers who disagree, one is a salesman and the other, well I'll leave you to draw your own conclusion.
The theory seems sound, but it doesn't bear out in reality with credible people who actually have used them.
The difference between zapping and things that actually work becomes profound once you have already done a lot of deep cleansing and are attuned to the inner workings. If you are a beginner you might be tempted to think something is happening when you can feel the slight electric tingle at certain frequencies.
P L A C E B O
Parazapper's
Lame
Ass
Clark ripoff
Electronic
Box of
Overrated obsolescence
This is not to be confused with higher voltage plasma devices which I have no experience with and neither is the parazapper a rife machince since it is not a plasma device.
- Re: How's your intake of macrominera... joegrane
8 y
2,529
This is a reply to # 2,306,799Thank you both for your replies.
I once had two parasites according to Metametrix stool test. I had matching symptoms including having to go to the Men's room on short notice several times per day for many weeks. (yea, I don't go to the doc very quickly ) I lost 10lbs, the last few while trying to gain weight.
In less than a week Alinia had me back to normal.- Re: How's your intake of macrominera... WhoAreYouNormally
8 y
2,537
This is a reply to # 2,306,889You're welcome, glad that you resolved the problem quickly and effectively.
- Re: How's your intake of macrominera... WhoAreYouNormally
8 y
2,537
- Re: How's your intake of macrominera... BeHealed16
8 y
2,424
- Re: How's your intake of macrominera... Meghill16
8 y
2,517
- Re: How's your intake of macrominera... WhoAreYouNormally
8 y
2,636
- Re: How's your intake of macrominera... Meghill16
8 y
2,571
- Re: How's your intake of macrominera... WhoAreYouNormally
8 y
2,640
- Re: How's your intake of macrominera... Meghill16
8 y
2,489
- Re: How's your intake of macrominera... WhoAreYouNormally
8 y
2,655
- Re: How's your intake of macrominera... Meghill16
8 y
2,484
- Re: How's your intake of macrominera... illys / elisah
8 y
2,769
- Re: How's your intake of macrominera... Meghill16
8 y
2,549
- Re: Stage 3 adrenal exhaustion WhoAreYouNormally
8 y
2,593
This is a reply to # 2,306,444You are low on sodium. Once you raise sodium levels you can start taking other minerals in low doses.
- Re: Stage 3 adrenal exhaustion Meghill16
8 y
2,529
This is a reply to # 2,306,475Should I stop taking fish oil and magnesium glycinate (the only two supplements I'm taking now) and just focus on sodium for a while? How would you recommend I get the sodium into my diet? I drink salt water in the morning and heavily salt my food plus I just made some bone broth.
Thanks!- Re: Stage 3 adrenal exhaustion WhoAreYouNormally
8 y
2,658
This is a reply to # 2,306,510yes definitely stop all pills, especially fish oil. the jury is not out on whether this is actually good for you, it depends on which expert you believe.
high sodium foods are salt, dairy, tomatoes, veal shank, celery, seafood. try different brands of salt to see which one is best.
best to salt your food, not your water as per dr. batmanghelidj then add in supplements one by one, ditch the ones that make you feel worse.
you can also bathe in salted water.
when sodium is very low even magnesium can stress your system. but magnesium is what i'd add back in first, just at a low dose.
- Re: Stage 3 adrenal exhaustion Meghill16
8 y
2,823
This is a reply to # 2,306,515Any ideas on how my sodium got so low, even when I salt my food so liberally?
- Re: Stage 3 adrenal exhaustion joegrane
8 y
2,578
This is a reply to # 2,306,545"Any ideas on how my sodium got so low, even when I salt my food so liberally?"
Learn about aldosterone and ADH hormones since they could be factors.
You might not be retaining sodium normally. I think some people can end up with somewhat high potassium along with that.
Any other symptoms of adrenal insufficiency?- Re: Stage 3 adrenal exhaustion Meghill16
8 y
2,503
This is a reply to # 2,306,548My other symptoms are: frequent infections, insomnia at times, dark eye circles, I tend to be thin but I do eat a very healthy Diet and workout... I have chronic fatigue, anxiety at times, depression, low blood pressure, foggy headed, Acne at times, very difficult PMS with painful periods (though my progesterone is very low which in itself could be from adrenals exhaustion)... I do not like loud noises or bright lights... I pretty much have all adrenal burnout symptoms. It's gotten to the point where I hate crowds of people and have become very reclusive. I used to be very social and was an outside sales manager so I know it's something physiological that's going on. I go though periods after a bit of good rest where I feel more social and alive but my doctors have me on things that are detoxifying so I feel that my body is constantly struggling and at a weakened state. If I lay off of all detox protocols and supplements I feel almost normal enough to work again. I've been unemployed for 2 years due to such severe exhaustion and panic from ongoing stress. I've been trying to catch up ever since.
- Re: Stage 3 adrenal exhaustion joegrane
8 y
2,702
This is a reply to # 2,306,558Remember inexpensive pregnenolone is the immediate precursor to progesterone.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Steroidogenesis.svg
If you are sensitive to various chemicals you might start with 10mg preg and try to gradually increase the dose and frequency during the day.
We hear that symptom cluster fairly often in the heavy metal detox groups. I think you'll understand this 2 yr update from Rita that expresses quite well what we hear in the groups
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/frequent-dose-chelation/message/111235
My previously introverted, geeky personality has changed quite a bit. I now have a much more customer-facing position than I would have ever expected. This was after maybe 1.5 yrs detox.
http://onibasu.com/archives/fdc/77047.html
I had to leave the weddings of two cousins due to sensitivity to loud sounds, even with cotton in my ears. That did not start to improve until after about three years of detox. I got almost all of my gains in the first 1.75 yrs.
- Re: Stage 3 adrenal exhaustion joegrane
8 y
2,702
- Re: Stage 3 adrenal exhaustion Meghill16
8 y
2,555
This is a reply to # 2,306,548I just looked at my hormone test results from the Dutch test and my aldosterone is at the low end of the range. The range is 399 to 1364 and my aldosterone is 448.
- Re: Stage 3 adrenal exhaustion Meghill16
8 y
2,503
- Re: Stage 3 adrenal exhaustion joegrane
8 y
2,578
- Re: Stage 3 adrenal exhaustion
- Re: Stage 3 adrenal exhaustion #94128
8 y
2,484
This is a reply to # 2,306,510Recently diagnosed chronic. My notes from Dr Christine Horner at Lyme Disease Research Database interview say omega 3s are a big help, but get them from flax seed. AHCC is big as well. I'm no doc, not that that would seem to help,but I pulled that out of the dark rabbit-hole I've been in since diagnosis . Hope that helps. I was promoted to edit before a comment, other than,,commas I seem a little cryptic, but that might be my lyme brain I've been reading about.
- Re: Stage 3 adrenal exhaustion Meghill16
8 y
2,482
This is a reply to # 2,306,648I'm so sorry to hear about the Lyme! It's such a confusing and complicated illness- I've been battling it for longer than I would like to think about. As for the flax, do you think it's ok to have flax if you are estrogen dominant and low in progesterone? I have heard of seed cycling to balance hormones and would like to look into it more.
- Lyme sucks ... #94128
8 y
2,537
This is a reply to # 2,306,664Seed cycling is new to me, false estrogens are everywhere, plastics, insecticides, and even sales receipts.Your question about flax seed for someone estrogen dominant is over my pay grade here. All my feeble thoughts produce is the recollection of how great a slow cooker full of sweet potatoes might impact low progesterone. Lyme is sucking the life out of many suffering people, Looking for a handle.
- Lyme sucks ... #94128
8 y
2,537
- Re: Stage 3 adrenal exhaustion Meghill16
8 y
2,482
- Re: Stage 3 adrenal exhaustion WhoAreYouNormally
8 y
2,658
- Re: Stage 3 adrenal exhaustion Meghill16
8 y
2,529
- How's your intake of macrominerals? ... illys / elisah
8 y
2,892
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