Fecal Transplant 
TPeasy
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So, my half sister is willing to be a donor for me. She is 15 years old, little Antibiotic use, daily BM, perfect health/skin..
Anyway, I'm a little confused why others do not try this. Even if it doesn't work, I don't see where it could hurt. I haven't had a BM in 11 days now, and have zero urge. I still don't understand why this is normal for me. Lack of flora, since poop is mainly bacteria?
How should I prepare?- Re: Fecal Transplant Jerome99
13 y
17,641
MoreThis is a reply to # 1,873,125Was it hard to find someone "willing" to donate? Just kidding.
Seriously, though, please keep us updated on how this goes. Although I am doing light years better these days, I am probably going to give this a try, as I feel that I may have lost some strains of beneficial flora during my illness that can't be replaced with probiotics/kefir alone.- Re: Fecal Transplant indigoaura
13 y
17,831
MoreThis is a reply to # 1,873,160Advertisement
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Hi, just wanted to know how much kefir you drink and have you tried a fast with only green leaves and kefir (no supplements or vitamins)? Also I assume you are making your own real kefir at home from sustainable grains, not the starter powder?
I ask because it is my current theory to completely repopulate the gut by using traditional kefir alone. Real kefir has 100+ strains of beneficial bacteria as well as 3 strains of candida that are all beneficial! Do the research it's crazy! It goes against the popular norm to EAT candida to RID yourself of candida I know. But it's the strain of candida that is harming us. I think that albicans should not exist in our gut at all, and that kefir candida should be there and can possibly canibalize the albicans. (That part is my theory, not based on any scientific reports that I've seen.)
Just a theory, though the health benefits of drinking traditional kefir, especially from unpasteurized raw milk, is widely documented.
- Re: Fecal Transplant dearmrsgreen
6 y
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This is a reply to # 1,873,181Hi! I just want to share my experience with probiotics. My gut was wiped out by 3 years of c-diff following several years of Antibiotics for and infectious disease. I’m a holistic health coach with lots of training in fermented foods, so I turned to diet to repopulate my gut. Home brewed kefirs and kombuchas, Bio+K daily, sauerkraut, buttermilk, aged cheese, every probiotic capsule I could get my hands on. I even made my own soil bases probiotics withal technique I learned from a Native American.
Last month I had ubiome done, and was stunned by the results. I have NO probiotics and my digestive symptoms had indicated that to me for a long time.
I turned to my GI doctor for answers. He specializes in fecal transplants, which I’m preparing to do this week. He said that he’s never seen a patient be able to repopulate natural probiotic levels with diet because the many diverse microorganisms aren’t found in kefir or anything else. They’re found in the human digestive tract and the birth canal. Nowhere else. Especially little critters like oxalybacter, which die easily with only one round of Antibiotics . They aren’t found in food and can’t be put into a pill.
So a good diet of fermented food helps increase acidophilus and lactobicilis but can never restore the gut to its ideal envirnoment. Only Fecal Transplant can do that.
- Re: Fecal Transplant Paul D
6 y
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This is a reply to # 2,400,179I'm not sure I follow what you're saying. Are you saying you have NO GUT BACTERIA? That would leave me to wondering how any digestion could occur.
- Re: Fecal Transplant Paul D
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- Re: Fecal Transplant dearmrsgreen
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- Re: Fecal Transplant indigoaura
13 y
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- Re: Fecal Transplant dvjorge
13 y
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Boy,
Don't hesitate to do it. Don't do HPI but fecal transplants using enemas. Saline water plus warm donor feces. Keep prepared yourself with enemas with clear distilled water the same day. Don't allow the donor feces cool off. It has to be a quick procedure. Try to do it 3 or 4 continue days. Don't ask me more. It is not complicated. The human flora is so powerful implanting that it will do in any form. The most important is introduce to your colon the warm donor feces diluted in distilled or purified water. That is it.
Jorge. - Re: Fecal Transplant jameskep37
13 y
18,309
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This is a reply to # 1,873,125Fecal transplant seems to try to colonize better than kefir enemas. Ive done both and the fecal transplant gave a twitching sensation like it was trying to colonize. The fecal transplant did give me die-off like syptoms. Ive got to try to get rid of most of the candida in my colon before i do another series of fecal transplants. Im going to go on a diet that involves very small meals consisting of low fat fish,chicken,beef. Try to leave very little food/nutrition left over for the candida in my colon( no fiber,carbs for them to ferment). This seemed to work last summer as i did a kefir enema and had no die off syptoms but the kefir did not colonize. --so i relapsed. Once the candida gets weakened in the colon then i can do some sodium bicarb/anti-fungal enemas until i get no die off syptoms. Once their is no die-off syptoms then you pound the fecal transplants.
Before you do fecal implants make sure most of the candida is gone in your colon or else your going to have a war going on in your colon and will feel miserable! Ive done some anti-fungal enemas and i felt like absolute hell. i would do a anti-fungal enema to see how strong the candida is in your colon. I did a fecal tranplant with my son who is exactly the same blood type as me, i think he is a perfect match.
Good luck
If your constipated do a tea bag of senna with a little vitamin C. Senna is a diurectic so be sure replenish your electrolytes after it does its job.
- Re: Fecal Transplant TPeasy
13 y
17,502
This is a reply to # 1,873,255We are planning it the week after christmas. She is still in highschool and lives about 30 minutes from me so that will be easiest. My wife actually talked to her about it so I just filled in a few blanks.
I tried drinking about 2 cups of kefir daily for around 2 months but never noticed any difference at all. I tried severeal combinations for several weeks with no results. The kefir is alone is actually enough to flare my problems, even letting it ferment to the point of half whey.
dv,
why haven't you done this using your childs feces? Also, should I clear myself out before implanting hers? I don't think I can hold it otherwise. I can usually only hold an enema 2-3 minutes the first round. Round 2 I can hold it as long as I want.
James,
I was wondering how I should approach this. I worried that If I was on a zero carb diet it would somehow prevent the bacteria from surviving due to lack of fiber/carbs. I plan on doing them every morning for 7 days.Advertisement
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- Re: Fecal Transplant Blackfeather
13 y
17,644
This is a reply to # 1,873,271Good luck with the fecal implant. I have known about HPI for many years now and still think it is potentially the cure for dysbiosis, which all of us on this forum undoubtaly have. My problem is I can not find a willing or suitable donor. Still looking, though.
Concerning kefir and probiotics there is a huge misconcepption on this forum that somehow these bacteria will colonize the colon. They will not, can not and never will permanently colonize. They are the wrong species of bacteria and can not implant. Probiotics have very limited utility, mostly they dissapear from the colon in 2-3 days. They may offer some short term benefit, but make no mistake, if you want to recolonize the gut with friendly bacteria, they must be of human origin. In other words, the only way to do this currently is by doing HPI.
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- Re: Fecal Transplant indigoaura
13 y
17,566
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This is a reply to # 1,873,290I think the misinformation is occuring because people think that all kefir is the same, or that drinking kefir will magically cure a candida albicans infestation.
This is my thought (NOT based on any scientific study, this is all me trying to put 2 and 2 together).
We all know that our intestinal tract contains bacteria AND yeast naturally. It is widely agreed that candida is always present in our gut, just in yeast form in a healthy person and kept in check.
My hypothesis is that we have unwittingly mutated beneficial candida that we once had in our intestinal tracts by several generations of rampant Antibiotic use. My daughter inherited albicans from me at birth, I inherited from my mom at birth and she started it by YEARS of Antibiotic use and also we all ate Antibiotics via factory farmed meat and dairy in the 80's when we didn't know any better! I really don't have ANY idea how much Antibiotics I've actually been exposed to.
Anyway, real kefir contains 60 - 100+ strains of bacteria, as well as 3 strains of BENEFICIAL CANDIDA. Kefir grains themselves are a biofilm and that's why they grow. The yeast is what is able to colonize, and the bacteria just helps us assimilate nutrients and performs other functions but most likely does not make it past the stomach. But maybe the bacteria can colonize inside the yeast biofilm since it's protected - I don't see why not as this occurs all over the place in nature.
So if you first clear out the albicans and repopulate with the beneficial candida strains in real kefir (kefir made from starter does not have the yeast strains and storebought kefir is useless), it would guard against future albicans invasions.
I think this is why kefir has been revered as a health tonic for thousands of years. The good candida is the only thing that can set up shop and deflect the other bad strains.
Also I wanted to note that with a complete infection of candida nothing you eat will help. All nutrients will be snatched up by the albicans, even meat, probiotics and kefir. Then it will start eating your muscles. You have to knock it back to make space for the kefir guys to move in.
Thoughts on the kefir candida replacement theory?Advertisement
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- Re: Fecal Transplant dvjorge
13 y
17,460
Lugol’s Iodine Free S&H
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Candida Detox
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Remove them all!
This is a reply to # 1,873,304Do you know some beneficial candida strains ??
I don't know about any.
That topic about no colonization is true. There isn't any evidence that current probiotics in any form can colonize the gut permanently. Another thing is the primary and dominant species aren't present in current probiotics as the other poster said. Probiotics, including Kefir, can only do temporary benefits to the gut. The only way so far to reach colonization is from human indigenous feces.
Jorge.- Re: Fecal Transplant indigoaura
13 y
17,475
This is a reply to # 1,873,324C. queretana
C. lamica
C. valida
Many, many references state that kefir has at least 3 strains of candida, but I can't find any references proving that they are beneficial and not just benign - still researching this. It's not the probiotic bacteria that colonize but specifically the yeast. My point is that if candida albicans and tropicalis and 76 other known candida strains can populate the entire human intestinal tract, why would you say that these forms of candida couldn't? That doesn't seem like a logical conclusion to me, and one not based on science. Are you using anecdotal accounts of people claiming that kefir didn't "work" for them to come to this conclusion?
Strains of bacteria and yeast found in Kefir Grains (and kefir itself):
Water kefir is typically composed of Lactobacillus, Streptococcus, Pediococcus and Leuconostoc
bacteria with yeasts from Saccharomyces, Candida, Kloeckera and possibly other minor yeasts.
Bacteria
Species Lactobacillus
L. acidophilus
L. alactosus
L. brevis
L. bulgaricus
L. casei subsp. casei
L. casei subsp. pseudoplantarum
L. casei subsp. rhamnosus
L. casei subsp. tolerans
L. coryneformis subsp. torquens
L. fructosus
L. hilgardii
L. homohiochi
L. plantarum
L. psuedoplantarum
L. reuterietc
L. yamanashiensis
Species Streptococcus
S. agalactiae
Sr. bovis
S. cremeris
S. faecalis
S. lactis
S. mutans
S. pneumoniae
S. pyogenes
S. salivarius
S. sanguinis
S. suis
S. viridans
Species Pediococcus
P. damnosus
Species Leuconostoc
L. mesenteroides
Species Bacillus
B. subtilis
B. graveolus
Yeast
Species Saccharomyces
S. bayanus
S. boullardii
S. cerevisiae
S. florentinus
S. pretoriensis
S. uvarum
Species Kloeckera
K. apiculata
Species Hansenula
H. yalbensis
Species Candida
C. gueretana
C. lamica
C. valida
*does not contain C. albicans - the yeast associated with human yeast infections and 'candida' in
general
Species Torulopsis
T. insconspicna
*does not contain T. glabrata, also associated with yeast infections and 'candida'
The above research is largely from the work of Dolores Sanchez-Penalver, Aidoo, Dominic
Anfiteatro, and Ronald S. Brown, with additional resources from Abosluteastronomy Encyclopedia
- Re: Fecal Transplant indigoaura
13 y
17,475
- Re: Fecal Transplant TPeasy
13 y
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This is a reply to # 1,873,304Advertisement
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Maybe the flora has a certain set of bacteria that it recognizes and accepts. So, kefir is considered foreign and the body doesn't accept and excretes it quickly. I think most agree that the hope with kefir or any other probiotic is that it pushes back the bad enough to let the good thrive. Just my thoughts.
- Re: Fecal Transplant dvjorge
13 y
17,687
This is a reply to # 1,873,325I posted it a few days ago. See how the main enterotypes found in human feces are different bacterial species.
http://www.geekosystem.com/enterotypes-gut-bacteria/
Current probiotics don't have these species !!!
- Re: Fecal Transplant indigoaura
13 y
17,616
This is a reply to # 1,873,329Right I've seen this story, but I'm still not clear on how you are connecting the strong presence of these bacteria excreted by the body to good health and something we want to colonize in our gut. How do we know the immune system is not eliminating these guys and that's why they show up in large numbers in the feces? Here's an article linking two of those bacteria strains to ulcerative colitis. The story says, "The investigation revealed an abundance of sequences from Bacteroides spp. and Prevotella spp. in the mucosal tissue of patients with UC compared with individuals showing no signs of disease."
Heres the link: http://jmm.sgmjournals.org/content/55/5/617.full
Please be patient with my questions as I am really trying to grasp all the excellent info and open minded posts on this forum. :-)
Prevalence of Bacteroides and Prevotella spp. in ulcerative colitis
Katja Lucke1, Stephan Miehlke2, Enno Jacobs3 and Markus Schuppler4
+ Author Affiliations
1Institute of Medical Microbiology, Canton Hospital Luzern, Switzerland
2Medical Department I, University Hospital Dresden, Germany
3Institute of Medical Microbiology and Hygiene, Technical University Dresden, Germany
4Laboratory of Food Microbiology, Institute of Food Science and Nutrition, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology Zurich, ETH Center LFV B21, Schmelzbergstrasse 7, CH-8092 Zurich, Switzerland
Correspondence
Markus Schuppler
Markus.Schuppler@ilw.agrl.ethz.ch
Received 10 June 2005.
Accepted 28 December 2005.
Next Section
Abstract
The resident bacterial flora of the large intestine has become increasingly recognized as an essential component in the pathogenesis of ulcerative colitis (UC). However, it is still not known whether the bacterial flora in general or certain bacterial species of the intestinal microbial flora contribute to the pathogenesis of the disease. In order to investigate the composition of the mucosa-associated microbial flora in UC, mucosal tissue samples from patients with active UC and from control subjects with non-inflammatory conditions were analysed and compared. To cover the whole spectrum of intestinal bacteria and to circumvent the known bias introduced by culture-based techniques, comparative 16S rRNA gene sequence analysis was used to determine the bacterial composition in the mucosal tissue samples. The investigation revealed an abundance of sequences from Bacteroides spp. and Prevotella spp. in the mucosal tissue of patients with UC compared with individuals showing no signs of disease. The higher incidence of populations of members of the Bacteroidetes in UC suggests that these may have an influence on the pathogenesis of the disease.
- Re: Fecal Transplant dvjorge
13 y
17,826
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What you realize is very interesting. I think real examples of living bacterial gut flora should be taken by endoscopy and colonoscopy. The thing is there are some parts of the small bowel that can not be reached to get samples. Anyway, this has been done before aspiring mucus from the colon and the intestines. Fecal samples may not give a real information about the permanent bacterial flora. Another thing is the flora varies from one region to other and is linked to people basic diet. People enjoy health everywhere, even when they have different flora patterns. I would like to know more about it and give you a final answer. Unfortunately, I don't have it. I am trying to do my best to regain my health. My common sense tells me that if after a long Antibiotic round, I developed an intestinal candidiasis and dysbiosis, it can be linked to damage caused to the flora by the Antibiotics . I think no one better than my daughter to serve me as a donor since she may have a flora pattern very similar to my. I mean, it is thinking to eliminate the fungal infection using antifungals and a complete protocol, and no waiting that Fecal Transplant will solve the problem , but it gives me hope of recolonization with a similar flora than what I had one time candida be corrected or leaving empty space.
Jorge.
- Re: Fecal Transplant dvjorge
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- Re: Fecal Transplant indigoaura
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- Re: Fecal Transplant dvjorge
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- Re: Fecal Transplant dvjorge
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- Re: Fecal Transplant indigoaura
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- Re: Fecal Transplant Blackfeather
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- Re: Fecal Transplant TPeasy
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- Re: Fecal Transplant curability
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This is a reply to # 1,873,125Others are reluctant to try fecal trans because of the unsanitary stigma attached. Personally I would have to see more proof that this kind of thing actually cures candida.
Speaking of cure I think that people on this thread need to look at reality when knocking probiotics just because it may not colonize the gut. What probiotics do is take up space in the gut and allow the good flora a chance to proliferate while inhibiting the fungus.
I eat sk at each primary meal which give me billions and billions of good bacteria. It seems to me that even if the billions of good bacteria being ingested are not colonizing that the constant bombardment of these beneficial flora will be effective in helping to prevent fungal proliferation.
Here's a scientific study that shows that l. plantarum colonizes the gut in rats for up to a week and declines by weeks 5. Sauerkraut delivers L. Plantarum right to the gut in very large numbers.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1905288/
- Re: Fecal Transplant jameskep37
13 y
17,351
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Ive used Jarrow ibs formula which is suppose to be a human strain of L. Planturum. It gives me bad die-off. Im not ready for it yet. Candida has to be down to a minumum for probiotics to be effective. Otherwise it just creates a war in your intestines with very uncomfortable symptoms. If the candida is too strong it will just wipe out any probiotic you take and all your left over with is feeling like crap. This has been my experience with them for the last 2 years.
- Re: Fecal Transplant markk
13 y
17,537
This is a reply to # 1,873,556I have researched this alot.
Human flora consists of 500 species & 30,000 sub species
that scientist have identified!!!
Some world leaders in this field believe we have discovered about half the all the species located in the intestinal tract.
So there's potentially 1000 & 60,000 sub species of bacteria.
This is the amazon rain forest. Taking probiotics is probably similar to planting a few shrubs after nuking the amazon rain forest. Not to mention what others have stated
that these are lab grown bacteria they are being put into a strange different environment & asked to thrive.
As opposed to using human flora that goes from a warm dark place to an environment thats very similar.
Let me also clarify that everyone has candida. Even healthy people. Everyone also has C-diff, Klebsiella, and all the bacteria that make up the leading hospital infections.
Its an ecosystem. Much like the amazon, sometimes bad stuff is needed to maintain balance in the system. You need candida just like the amazon needs jaguars or anaconda's.
According to Dr Borody himself, there's a normal part of human flora that "eats candida for breakfast". His exact words.
I want to say to anyone trying this though, that its not a one & done procedure. If you do it once you will see short term results, but you existing bad flora will win in the end & knock out the good stuff your trying to implant. Thats why this procedure involves 5-10 attempts. You keep reinforcing the bacteria over & over so eventually it colonizes and knocks out the bad.
- Re: Fecal Transplant #132242
13 y
17,461
This is a reply to # 1,873,571just wanted to say you are spot on. i think it is pretty naive when people think they can predict the outcome of bowel flora supplementation/therapies. it is insanely complex to begin with and then if you just change one thing the permutations and reactions become beyond the scope of calculating. on top of that there are genetic predispositions to certain flora, so some genotypes will respond favorably to bacteria x and others will have an autoimmune response. way too complex to predict, and then we have some experts who proclaim to know exactly what will happen when a change is made.
there can also be far-reaching influences for both positive and negative. look what has happened with the proliferation of Antibiotics . apparent immediate successes have given rise to superbugs and a host of autoimmune disorders.
the successes people have are based on observation and trial and error. there are some good theories out there and some of them work, but when people make blanket statements about flora it makes my head spin.
i have no experience with the ft but it sounds interesting. was also reading recently about dom the kefir guy who cured his colitis with kefir implants, something to consider.
some animals innoculate themselves naturally by eating the feces of other animals.
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