What is with all the potentially poi... 
kisaki
15 y
2,128
Why are so many of the effective remedies and therapies either potentially poisonous or have poisonous origins? Comfrey with its potential liver toxins, castor oil with the very toxic ricin present during the making process, sassafras used for liver detoxing and yet is quite poisonous TO the liver, Oleander tea and extractions, etc., etc.
The more I research and search for the truth, the more I develop doubt and end up not wanting to take ANYTHING, for fear of being poisoned, or ending up the "rare and unusual case" of poisoning from what was thought to be a safe substance. Maybe this is one reason why "natural hygiene" exists?
I noticed that many people refer to herbs and natural things as being part of "God's" way. "God's pharmacy". They basically say that because it is natural and from God that it can do no harm but this is obviously not true because toadstools and snake venom are both from God and yet are very poisonous. Poison Ivy, poison oak are more examples. Dr.Christopher says that herbs are foods and can do no harm and yet he advises for the person to have a free flowing liver before using things like comfrey. Why? Is he saying this because they CAN do harm? Under certain circumstances?
Another thing I see is that when someone brings up issues like this, they always get replies with people talking about how dangerous and poisonous the medical and conventional methods are. This is true, many of them are very poisonous and will kill you. Like chemotherapy. But I think many of us are here because we already know that. Either way, how does the toxicity of medical methods make certain natural methods any less toxic? If sassafras is poisonous, and you're trying to cure cancer with it, just because you're using something that came from God and not from man (like chemo) doesn't mean you're not being poisoned. Sometimes I see people asking about the potential danger of chiropractic cervical manipulations and rather than having their questions answered, they are just given spews of statistics on how medical doctors kill millions each year. So what? The person wasn't asking about the dangers of medical. They were asking about chiropractic.
In my opinion, this type of over-zealousness is blinding and is equally dangerous. Instead of trying to find the TRUTH people are just constantly defending their accepted beliefs seemingly without being open for new information. If one person dies because they were taking something that "can do no harm" according to zealots, it doesn't matter if medics are killing millions. That one person is DEAD. Sad that people opt for dogma over life, on both sides.
Agree? Disagree?
Hopefully someone has something to add to my concerns, or relieve them which would be even better.
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- Re: What is with all the potentially... Southern Belle
15 y
2,103
This is a reply to # 1,441,932All I am going to say on this subject is this:
I think you are the one who is blind.- Re: What is with all the potentially... kisaki
15 y
1,866
MoreThis is a reply to # 1,441,934You're right, which is why I made this post. There are things I don't know and I'm trying to "see". You talk like you have "sight" but refuse to share with someone sick, confused, and trying to find the way?
- Re: What is with all the potentially... kisaki
15 y
1,866
- Re: What is with all the potentially... Molly Bloom
15 y
2,557
R
This is a reply to # 1,441,932That's why you need to read. No one should take anyone's post as the gospel truth.
There are good things in both natural and western medicine. There should be a balance. The reason we are all living so much longer is because of western medicine.
Anyone venturing into the the world of natural health should be aware that it is slow and has purpose. It's a very simple theory:
Eat well with whole foods.
Take care of your organs.
Don't stress.
It's a lifestyle.
Whoever decides to do something provocative should be educated. It's not like you come here and there's a doctor that whips out their prescription pad (like any typical western medicine visit).
So if you feel like you don't agree with what someone says, then it's best to move on.
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- Re: What is with all the potentially... kisaki
15 y
1,816
This is a reply to # 1,442,018I agree with you. Balance is something we need. Something I'm looking for. It is just difficult when so many people are saying so many things that make sense yet contradict other sensible view points. I guess reading, seeking, and testing are the keys, but there are people who have been doing this for a long time and I value that experience, but therein lies much of the confusion: when it contrasts to another's experience. Maybe there is no gospel truth? I understand that everyone is different and we need to find what is right for us individually, but venturing out into the unknowns with warnings and omens along the way is not easy, and what makes it harder is how one's illness tends to make you feel rushed into it all.--Thank you for replying.
- Re: What is with all the potentially... Molly Bloom
15 y
1,831
This is a reply to # 1,442,312Well, if you ever really want to know what could kill you, go ask Trapper.
If there is a therapy that says....take 5 mg 3 times a day, Trapper will take 20 Mgs 3 times a day.
He's a walking experiment. A true testament that what doesn't kill you makes you stronger LOL!!
- Re: What is with all the potentially... Molly Bloom
15 y
1,831
- Re: What is with all the potentially... kisaki
15 y
1,816
- Re: What is with all the potentially... Donn
15 y
2,003
This is a reply to # 1,441,932Have you found anything positive in your searches or is it all dangerous and to be avoided?
- Re: What is with all the potentially... kisaki
15 y
1,822
This is a reply to # 1,442,058I was exaggerating when I said I not taking "anything", sorry if I caused some confusion.
I have actually found a lot of treasure here. Colon cleansing has helped me; herbal eyewashes are great; even though I have some doubts about Epsom Salts , the Liver Flushes are brilliant, even if its mechanisms are questionable; the information on diet has been really helpful; cayenne pepper alone has really benefited me; chiropractic has helped me a lot in the past; etc.,etc.
There has been a lot that I have found to be helpful. It's that I just noticed a trend around some really helpful methods. The trend is that there seems to always be warnings and danger or suspicions of danger, like some herbs, and other things.
I was not trying to attack all natural/alternative methods. I am really just looking for clarity to many grey areas.
- Re: What is with all the potentially... kisaki
15 y
1,822
- Re: What is with all the potentially... Hveragerthi
15 y
2,487
R
This is a reply to # 1,441,932A lot of this has to do with perspective and in many cases misguided information from the medical establishment. There is no question that some herbs can be dangerous. Then again so can oxygen, which is why it is regulated as a drug. And even water can kill you if used improperly. Drink too much water too quick and your brain will swell up in your skull from the electrolyte imbalance crushing it.
The FDA in particular has put a lot of misleading information out there as well in an attempt to gain more control over herb sales to protect the profits of the big drug companies they are illegally invested in to. By this I mean that it has been reported for over 30 years that there are over 150 FDA officials invested in to the drug companies they regulate in violation of Federal insider trading laws.
Since you brought up comfrey let's start here. FRESH comfrey contains liver damaging pyrrolizidine alkaloids. So does fresh germander, coltsfoot, and chaparral. Studies have shown that the fresh plant can cause liver damage in rats, and cases have been reported in humans. What the FDA has not told the public is that the alkaloids are very unstable and are oxidatively destroyed in these plants after a few moths of being dried. This is why studies of the dried plants did not show the liver toxicity.
Another good example is licorice root. We have all heard that it can raise blood pressure. What we have not been told is that it takes about 50 grams (roughly 100 capsules) of daily ingestion for over 6 months to have this effect. Try applying that to something the FDA approve like aspirin. If you took 100 aspirin tablets a day for 6 months I can guarantee you that you would not live long enough to reach that 6 month mark.
And many herbs have to be prepared properly to render them safe. Rhemannia (Chinese foxglove root) has to be boiled in 9 changes of water to remove the toxic cardiac glycosides. What is left over is an incredible healing agent. Oleander also contains dangerous cardiac glycosides that need to be removed. Cascara sagrada bark and Jack in the pulpit herbs must be aged for at least 2 years to render them safe for use. And even with this aging you still have to use them properly just like you would a pharmaceutical drug.- Re: What is with all the potentially... kisaki
15 y
1,844
This is a reply to # 1,442,181Your answers are always informative and helpful, from what I have seen.
I guess many of those warnings of danger and evidence of harm coming from herbs, etc., are just a lot of half truths in many cases? Where could I look to find the whole truth surrounding different methods? Mainly reading and asking around? How did you aquire your knowledge?
Your point about moderation makes sense to me, but sometimes with illness I've learned that we need to be much more aggressive with these methods. It is there that I worry about harm from poisons or whatever.--Thank you for responding to my post.- Re: What is with all the potentially... Hveragerthi
15 y
1,827
This is a reply to # 1,442,319
Your answers are always informative and helpful, from what I have seen.
I guess many of those warnings of danger and evidence of harm coming from herbs, etc., are just a lot of half truths in many cases? Where could I look to find the whole truth surrounding different methods? Mainly reading and asking around? How did you aquire your knowledge?I have been at this for about 30 years altogether. And I do a lot of teaching on alternative medicines. So I have to keep up on things, which requires a lot of research on top of research. I'll admit that it does take a lot of weeding through all the hype and false claims to finally get to the truth. But sometimes all it takes is a little common sense. If I can make a suggestion, I recommend going to a thrift store and find some books on anatomy and physiology. Get some of the basics on how the body really works. Also get a basic chemistry book. This will go a long way to understanding alternative medicines. For example, you will learn the many reasons the stomach acid is so important to maintain and why alkalinizers can be such a danger to the body.
Your point about moderation makes sense to me, but sometimes with illness I've learned that we need to be much more aggressive with these methods. It is there that I worry about harm from poisons or whatever.--Thank you for responding to my post.
- Re: What is with all the potentially... Hveragerthi
15 y
1,827
- Re: What is with all the potentially... kisaki
15 y
1,844
- Re: What is with all the potentially... fledgling
15 y
1,816
This is a reply to # 1,441,932Interesting point-of-view, Kisaki.
Does it all come down to, "Says who?" And, the question of who we trust...and why?
Then there is the whole question of the level of experience of the asker, emotional state, intuition, and memory of suggestions made before...reasoning ability, too.
I was told by someone I pay attention to that some people can ingest some poisons and they go right on through, without slowing down.
I found that amazing, but I certainly wouldn't want to test it.
On the other hand, I think it quite a miracle that many are still breathing, no matter what's 'out there'.
On my own journey, I have found that my best answers are far more simple than I had ever guessed...and often in a basic assumption I hadn't yet considered.
I suppose we must all follow our noses, examining the questions we notice, when we see them...remaining 'open', with our best 'standards' always in mind.
Overall, I am getting better and better. For me, that is very encouraging...a kind of 'proof' of 'so far, so good'.
Thanks for bringing this up. I will remember.
My best,
Fledgling- Re: What is with all the potentially... kisaki
15 y
1,810
This is a reply to # 1,442,255That was a really helpful post. I have also been getting better and better which is proof to me that I'm moving in a good overall direction, but I just get worried of losing my gains by taking steps down a bad path or such. I have been in situations several times where it seemed like one step forward, two steps back and it's very discouraging, but I still push on since I'm still breathing. For me the journey has been rough with many unknowns, but I still have a sense inside that it will be all worth it in the end.--Thank you for taking the time.
- Re: What is with all the potentially... kisaki
15 y
1,810
- Re: What is with all the potentially... #69242
15 y
1,799
This is a reply to # 1,441,932
Kisaski, that is an interesting and valid question. When the human body ingests, through its many pathways, a substance, it never asks the question whether it is "natural or synthetic", or "good or bad". It is just another substance that needs to be dealt with, through its many processes. In other words it is color blind, for lack of a better expression. What makes something good or bad? Well obviously a lot depends on the individual. We all have different genetics, body needs, deficiencies etc. So what may be beneficial for some may not be helpful for others. And conversely, what may be detrimental for some, may not be harmful for others. And certain substances that can cause harm in some may be helpful for others, and vica versa.
But in terms of some of your specific examples - well, I won't break them all down. Don't know enough about them all to give you an honest answer. I will mention oleander, since I have read more about it then the others. Yeah, it is toxic in it's most natural form, but when treated/altered (whatever you want to call it), then it appears to have the power to do wonders. To ingest a raw plant might kill you - but to ingest the form that is available commercially might save your life.
I am a big proponent of homeopathics, which are extremely diluted substances ingested as drops under the tongue. A layman's analogy might be - what some people who handle snakes do. They ingest minute amounts of venom in order to build up their immunity to snake venom if, God forbid, they are ever bit. Not a perfect analogy, but who in their right mind would ingest snake venom?? But it works in many cases. Homeopathics are slightly different, but you get my drift. My kinesiologist has homeopathics derived from parasites that can heal many problems. Major problems.... You never would probably want to expose yourself to the live parasite or ingest it, but for some reason it works. Again, I can't honestly answer your question for all substances and herbs that you may be thinking of. One obviously needs to be careful and do their homework, but as usuual, in many cases everything is not how it appears to be - or how logic would dictate. Which is why most of us are here. - I like the word 'provocation'... fledgling
15 y
1,847
This is a reply to # 1,441,932...As used by Zdenko Domancic in the film, 'Think About It'.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-153936213309506589
Or, at Healing Bioenergy .com
It is as though we take an action, or a substance, and then there is a consequence. The practical view...but is it always true?
It seems to me that, in physiology, there could be thousands of mitigating circumstances.
I think that's why scientists prefer to speak in percentages...to study thousands of instances, and declare the likelihood of a result...rather than say, "You WILL drop down dead...or, walk again...or, have to take this, daily, forevermore.
(Do they really think Joe will never forget to take his pills, never experiment on his own, or never switch to another brand?)
Even in alternatives, there are no guarantees...and no promises that you won't change in a year, or two...or, next week.
All we can do is pay our money, and take our chances...as was said many years ago.
We make the best choice we can guess...and hope for the best.
:D
- Re: What is with all the potentially... Southern Belle
15 y
2,103
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