Re: On “Protein or "Funny Protein"(NPN)--Killing "US"”

The insistent use of the term contamination while technically accurate, minimizes and conceals the very real fact that this is a deliberate criminal act.

I have no problem with you (or me) calling it intentional contamination.  Illegal contamination?  Criminal contamination?  Choose the modifier you like.

There are several reasons I choose the term contamination.  Firstly, it highlights the fact that this food is dangerous and not fit for consumption.  It also tells the reader the product contains something outside the normal parameters.   The term salting, spiking, dosing does not do that (for me) since many products are spiked with things like vitamins, minerals, probiotics, nutraceuticals – none of which are generally considered contaminants, and in many cases you actually want them in your food.

You state that the mechanism is not clear and then state I am wrong (it would be more accurately stated in ALL your posts that you THINK someone is wrong and then better for you when found wanting in challenge)... perhaps I am not.

Maybe I should have written that you appear to be wrong, based on initial work and not that your ARE wrong.  Perhaps you might be correct, however I also base my opinion on the fact that there are other types of contaminants and poisons that can cause kidney failure that are nitrogen free.   The various examples again point to the simple idea that NPN is bad for the liver as incorrect, it is not definitive but enough to say the evidence does not point that way.

Further research has led me to much documentation where melamine and cyanuric acid can both together, or separately cause these crystals to form in the kidneys. The earliest reference to this I have found is 1958 in sheep.

I am not sure why you bring this up, I have never said melamine or cyanuric acid was good for our health, nor have I argued that it is not the source of the contamination.  What I have said was; that to argue that they are dangerous because we can classify them as NPN is blatantly wrong.  They are toxic because (tautology up ahead) they are toxic not because they contain nitrogen.   If I had to guess based on the structure of the chemical I would investigate the action of the double bond of  H-C=O:, the lone pairs and the ring with the double bonds which could be opened, like other carbon ring structures.  It is their chemistry, and their interactions with tissues or proteins that make them toxic, not the nitrogen.

C - "Just because these compounds have nitrogen, the conclusion that it is the nitrogen that is the problem is unfounded"
I think you are wrong and again misleading and misdirecting. The nitrogen is a large component of the chemical structure of NPN containing substances without which the crystalline precipitate would most likely not occur.

Yes, GRZ and benzene is carbon and hydrogen, would you recommend that we avoid carbon and hydrogen because benzene is toxic?  Of course you would not.  The nitrogen is not the problem; it is the chemistry of melamine that is the source of danger.  From where I stand ML is lying to us (willfully or due to ignorance) and you are misleading us by supporting his views. I think the readers here and on the other forum are smart enough to recognize (when properly informed) that the chemistry of two compounds can be vastly different even if they both happen to have nitrogen as part of their formula.  They deserve better than the “NPN is bad” mantra that ML pushes and you now endorse. 

We are dealing with very different forms here; in other words there is a very real difference between the nitrogen in chlorophyll and the nitrogen in melamine.

And why we should call a spade by its name and melamine by its name rather than the generic NPN.  Just as it is clearly wrong to say that NPN is bad, and therefore chlorophyll, which also falls under the NPN label, is bad.  Such simplistic explanations do not benefit anyone and only serve to feed ML’s ego.

Another absurd generalization would be to say that because many snake poisons are a collection of enzymes, enzymes are bad – hell you could even generalized it even further and say that proteins are dangerous because enzymes are proteins.  Generalizations are usually bad (maybe even this one)