150433 Re: ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!

Thank you for your comments Mighty: much appreciated.

With reference to your posts/comments in this thread 150433.

I responded to your posts because of their inaccuracies; we did not misconstrue anything in reply to your comments, but merely responded in a rational and logical manner.
More on this in a moment, but firstly, personal derogatory comments are not permitted on any forum, so to refer to anyone here as "gross" falls within that category.

Indeed you are correct in stating that this is a "support forum" and where support is indeed offered freely and with only good intentions from those of us who have a wealth of experience/knowledge of the subject. Those of us who are knowledgeable and experienced not only offer support, but also "education" of the fasting process, to empower members into a successful outcome, so the risks of malnutrition by consuming anything other than water-only-according to thirst should be highlighted. This is not fear-mongering as you have stated but illustrating an awareness of the possibility.

Fasting is not a process to be entered into lightly, and although an extremely safe and natural process, we are obliged to highlight the minimal "potential risks" from undergoing prolonged fasts. To highlight the potential risks of malnutrition and nutritional deficiencies generally is therefore paramount to the health and welfare of the faster, and where this can be so easily achieved in consuming anything other than water only.
As H M Shelton and others have commented: the conduct of the fast is crucial to a successful and safe conclusion.

Your comment..........

"You actually don't have any real basis for your claims about scurvy, etc. developing on frugal diets. You are fuzzy in the details.

and in answer to that.........

"This bears out my contention that fasting does not produce the same deplorable results in the body that underfeeding or unbalanced feeding does. Fasting tends to maintain and even to restore chemical balance; whereas, the unbalanced or inadequate diet tends to unbalance the body's chemistry.
Scurvy, typhus, spotted fever, influenza and diarrhea, are reported to develop in famine districts. Following in the wake of the famine and persisting long afterwards, rickets, diarrhea, various skin eruptions and purulent inflammation of the eyes are found in nearly all children. The famine of 1848 in Ireland left a large number of blind women and men behind. The number of blind increased from 13,812 in 1848 to 45,947 in 1851.
It is such experiences as these that have served to prejudice thousands against fasting. They have not known that the most prolonged fasting never produces such results. Fasting never produces blindness, deafness, idiocy, insanity, eye "diseases," rickets, bowel disorders, etc., that follow in the wake of famine. So long as no food is consumed, the organism seems to be able to supply from its stored reserves the elements needed to sustain the vital organs and their functions and to supply these elements in correct proportions. These evils are out-growths, not of complete abstinence from food, but of a very one-sided or unbalanced diet".....H M Shelton.
http://www.soilandhealth.org/02/0201hyglibcat/020127shelton.III/020127.ch18.htm


Your next comment...........

"Low calorie diets are actually highly therapeutic in every case where fasting is also therapeutic. Think about it. It stands to reason. Your ideas are ridiculous. Think about them. The idea of the body "knowing" it is fasting and magically, arbitrarily flipping some "fasting switch" is a myth that dies hard, but it is a myth, just like "starvation mode."

Answer......
I refer to the above, but you are correct in stating that low calorie diets are indeed therapeutic, but the point you omitted is that these diets should also be "nutritionally-dense" as expounded by Dr Joel Fuhrman MD in advocating the Nutritarian diet which accomplishes both.
Low-calorie does not necessarily equate with adequate nutrition and the risk of malnutrition as a consequence.

I did not, or have ever implied, that a low-calorie diet is "dangerous" as highlighted above, but a conjectural-supposition you have made not based on anything in particular. We do not deal in "myths", but on facts from both personal experience, and the wealth of evidence/experience from those who have gone before us, dating back to the mid 1800's.

In answer to your comment...........

"It doesn't make sense that the body would be such a perfectionistic rigid thing which ONLY responded with a healing process when PRECISELY ZERO CALORIES were eaten. Life is about gradations! i mean, come on! Healing does happen on low calorie diets!

.....basically reveals your ignorance of the facts; the body is always in healing mode, as it is with its elimination cycle 24/7, it is just that on water only, these processes are greatly accelerated to the max' possible extent but to a much lesser extent on a restricted diet. The less food consumed, then the greater these processes will become. A juice fast is therefore highly therapeutic/cleansing, but less so that on water-only for example.

Just to inform you, that if any member does have a problem with maintaining a water-only-fast, then we have recommended a juice-fast or Nutritarian diet, as does Dr Joel Fuhrman MD in the care of his own patients, and esp' his cardiac patients in avoiding angioplasty and heart-by-pass surgical procedures. Please read the history of the forum.

Your comment that...........

"All scientific evidence points to frugal diets extending life and increasing health. Google any study on mice fed very restrictive diets -- less cancer, longer, healthier lives.

Is true of course 150433, and I have not denied this. Google Luigi Cornaro, and you will see what I mean.
Low calorie restrictive diets are indeed healthy and increase longevity, but only if they are also nutritionally dense.
My original point to you was that an extreme lop-sided diet or partial food intake, can and does result in malnutrition and especially so on a fast of what is supposed to be water-only. I refer to Sheltons comments above from his classic work on the subject.

These are the comments of this "Chris dude", and no I am not a "cult leader".
You probably mean that I am a respected member, just like any other, who has a wealth of knowledge of the fast and Natural Hygiene gleaned from over 31 years study of these topics. Your comments on my participation in this forum are unwarranted and derogatory, so I suggest you refrain from the same if your participation is to continue, which you are welcome to do. Moderators do not take kindly to comments such as these.

You are also equating the words "dangers" with "potential risks" in being synonymous, which of course they are not.

I now frequently take a backseat on this forum and only comment when I think there is a need...........as with the risks of drug-taking and the possibility of malnutrition.

The title of Curezone states "Educating instead of Medicating".
This is exactly what we are about.

Chrisb1.


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