Re: Plastic John E. Water on Ebay!

Hello -
In reference to the discussion on the Plastic stored water on ebay - friends of ours purchased some in a 5 gallon square plastic cube - soft side, from someone on ebay - and were told that it is first distilled into a glass 5 gallon carboy with a sealed lid w/hole for tube to go into (those who have the machine can picture this). Once it is cooled it is then transferred to the plastic container just before shipping out - and it was recommended that they move it to glass containers upon receipt, to prevent leaching of chemicals. Now, whether or not that truely works in stopping the leaching I don't know - but it seems that it is a somewhat good attempt to minimize it and distribute the water to people who can benefit from it.

That said - we tasted some of our friends water, did the due diligence and researched it after having read about this technology years ago (20 or so) in Acres Newspaper (among other places) and then sort of let it slip our minds, and again 10 years ago or so, and again it slipped our minds due to lifes unexpected things and finally just last year we found the technology again, and told our friends about it - and they found the water on ebay. So - since we tried the water, we read the patent info and had actually had conversations with Mr. Ellis at least twice in the past (prior to last year), and we ordered a machine. We did notice that John sells his water in glass bottles and suggests that you only use glass bottles partly because it does come out of the machine so hot it can't help but leach chemicals if it sits in plastic while it is hot - our opinion, not his.

What people have said all over this site on curezone is true - to some extent - both good and bad. First - what I've read is that people have difficulty with the method of sales/support from the John E. site - either online or on the phone. We too have experienced that - but also know that - prior to this we had been purchasing water from a service or through the store and drinking it from plastic bottles - who knows how long it had been stored that way etc. - and the cost per year amounts to no small amount of money - as most people who buy water can attest to. Along with that - not only do you NOT know for sure the source of the water to be pure or the methods of bottling to be secure, when you pull the cap off the 5 gallon jug just before you put it on your dispenser, smell the cap once - it often will smell musty - even before its been used (certainly after you have had the jug on the dispenser for a few days it will smell musty) - NOT ALL WATER in bottles is this way - partly due to the method which is used for bottling or unknown additives that might be used to keep it from smelling bad (chlorine in very low amounts, or whatever other agent that stops fungus or mold). Along with the cost and unknowns of the purchased water - you will also have the possibility that somehow someone could tamper with your product enroute to you. ALL THESE THINGS - add up to a certain value. That value is the one you use to weigh the cost of the machine against. A one time fee for you to be able to have the ability to have safe, pure, healthy drinking water (as well as run off for watering, washing clothes, bathing, treating pools & hot tubs). There is of course not just the one time fee for the machine - as there is the cost of operating it and repairs. But - that is not to say that your dispenser (if it was electric for hot/cold or just cold etc.) wouldn't also have some costs associated with it as well (unless it is a rental from the place you buy your water from). SO apples to apples - just what are you willing to pay for an unlimited supply of good, pure, healthy drinking water for one year? (Let alone for years to come?)

Second - There are numerous claims that have been made on a wide spectrum of things and some are good, some are bad - all are important and must be read with an open mind - knowing that what everyone has said about using the machine as intended will produce the proper results - distilled, electron energized water. Over filling can be a problem and there are certainly design flaws. MY OWN OPINION on why John E. is the way he is on this technology is simple and I will go into that later. It may help some of you understand how to best deal with him - we've really had no huge troubles - but realize it is always a possibility, which is all I will say right now. The claims that have been made as to stuff this water has done/can do that were on his website prior to Dec. 2007 (before it was redone) are pretty hefty claims, and we've researched many of them - and printed out the documentation showing test results for blood draws etc. that were posted there. Also the claim that it cleaned up a waste treatment lagoon in a Colorado town - also true - and the documentation is still on the site. We've checked into these things via email and internet searches as well. As for our own research we've tested the water produced by the lwm4 we have against our normal tap water, distilled water from a bottle, spring water, and the energized run off. When we say tested, we mean - we did the simple test of ice cube making. While our cubes don't ALWAYS make the spikes as I've seen described - I would say 90-95% of the time they do - and one of the variables is how often we open the freezer door during the freezing of the ice cubes. Our other testing includes using this in our turtle tank (30 gallon tank) and our hot tub (300 gallon). First the turtle tank: initial trial - tank was 1/2 full with a turtle and a bullhead in it - (the bull head was supposed to be food - but became a friend and stayed). The tank usually had to be cleaned every 5-9 days - as the stink and water became so bad we couldn't stand it. The tank doesn't have an aerator or water pump, and no plants in it either. At first we poured about 1 qt. give or take of the "run off" (energized tap water) into the tank - instead of cleaning it (it was sitting there a long time this time - to build up for us to run the test). The next morning we went to the tank and smelled - NO SMELL - the odor was gone - if this was all it did - GREAT- I'm sure the turtle doesn't mind a murky tank - cause he came from a local stream that's pretty murky to start with! A couple days went by and the water started to become clearer and clearer. By the end of day 3 it was crystal clear - and still no smell. The only thing it didn't really clear up was the algae, which was fine I guess. We decided to do another trial - so we totally cleaned the turtle tank after about 2 weeks and put in only run off water - no regular tap water - to see what happened. (FYI - we feed the turtle and fish in this tank as well - so everything happens in this tank). The water stayed clear and clean smelling for about 3 weeks and then it started to grow the brown/green algae on the walls of the tank and the rocks inside - still without smell though. (Now - the turtle is in slow mode as it is winter and he doesn't hibernate but doesn't eat much or do much else besides sun himself and sleep). So - one last trial - we decided to put in all GOOD water - and cleaned the tank as usual and filled it with GOOD water only - Distilled, purified, electron energized water. That was 2 weeks before Thanksgiving - 2007, and it is now Mid-January 2008. We've had to replenish the water some (always using the good water) but it is still without smell, and the water is crystal clear. There is some algae growth on the rocks/walls and we've decided to let it run as it is just adding water as we need to to keep the level up for the fish and turtle to swim about in. So - that said - it does keep the smell down which tells me it has a cleansing effect in either the plain run off tap water mixed, or the pure distilled energized water. With regard to our hottub - we have a soft side portable - 4 person tub - and it is kept outside (3-season porch) and kept running year round. We have a slight leak - so we need to add water every so often - not sure if that makes a difference - but it allows us to add a little more energized run off water every so often. We don't do TOTALLY chemical free - as we would like to - but only have to use a non-chlorine shock maybe 1 time a month - and that should be noted that it is more for our peace of mind vs. something telling us we need to. We've gone in the hot tub without showering - after a long day working outside or whatever and done this 2-3 days in a row - (3 of us) and if we had done this prior to using the electron energized run off water in our tub - we would certainly have had to treat it every time we used it - and perhaps in between as well to maintain the levels. Since we have added about 30 gallons vs. the 10 gallons recommended (we didn't have any place else to put it at the time - so we had to add it to the hot tub - as we were unwilling to just let it go down the drain at the time) - we're not sure if this is another reason why it works as well as it does. We don't have any green slime or stuff growing in our hot tub and the water always smells fresh and clean - however - when we open the hot tub sometimes after not using it for a while the lid might smell a little musty - and we reason that to be that the water isn't directly on it always with the anti-fungal properties and so it might smell musty from that - we're not sure - but it is not slimey either. We have noticed a little bit of slick feeling in the area above the water line on the sides of the tub (vinyl) and haven't seen anything growing - but we just "wipe it" with our hands and its fine. So - with regard to the hot tub or pool - yes it works, if the proper water was used to start with - if you run it (the machine) too fast, as others have said - the water won't have the properties it needs to keep the bad stuff from taking over if left untreated, its that simple.

Next, regarding the health claims made by people - yes - we've had them too - and have many friends who have had them as well. One thing people don't or may not realize is that this is not a SILVER BULLET (miracle cure all) - and - that is one thing that may be (and has been) misunderstood by reading the John E. website - and I strongly suggest that he change it to read that as with any item that is going to promote healthier people - you can't just do the ONE THING - it involves changing the way you treat your body and whether you take care of yourself or not. This water is not magic, but, if you use this water with the other therapies you are doing - you will notice better results than if you are using polluted, chemically treated, city or bottled water. Our bodies need water - we're made up of mostly water and if we don't drink enough HEALTHY water - our body is deprived of water for our cells and cell health - which leads to disease and sickness in general. That is why you will notice a difference right away in some things with this water - when you drink a good amount of it (8 - 8 ounce glasses a day is what is recommended by virtually everyone for water) because you are rehydrating your body and it can once again start processing the toxins out of the body - but in doing so - you may notice a relapse of the symptoms - if you only drink the water and don't do anything else to promote and support healthy cell regeneration/growth. In one of the brochures or somewhere on the site (can't recall) it says that if you are trying to treat some problem or sickness - the protocol is to drink half your body weight in ounces of straight water, to help resolve the issue. For some that is less than the 8 - 8 ounce glasses and some it will be more - my rule of thumb is to try to get the 8 - 8 ounce glasses down first (of just the water - anything else you drink above and beyond that (tea, coffee, juice) is ADDITIONAL to the 64 ounces of the water. This is just my own opinion and thats how I try to drink it. But I don't rely soley on that for health - I am a naturalist (or trying to be) (but I hate labels like that). I try to eat healthy (sprounts, grains, nuts, fruits, etc.) as well as exercise (really only exercise I do is to rebound a bit, and we don't drive so I ride bike everywhere). Its just common sense to not put all your eggs in one basket.

Bottom line is this - yes the machine is expensive, no John E. isn't as helpful or nice as he could be, but YES - the machine does work, has health benefits and if you are the inquisitive / hands on type - you can use this machine and not have huge troubles doing so - if you use care to follow instructions, ask for help (perhaps not from John E. himself - but Phil wasn't too bad at offering advice) from boards like this even. It helps to be somewhat mechanically inclined - or not afraid to take things apart to see how they work and what they look like in the beginning - so you know what it should look like later when it gets time to replace a part or two (gasket, clamp, hoses or clips). For those who homeschool - make it a Science project to look at, examine and label all the parts and draw a diagram to help understand how it works etc. - there are all sorts of learning opportunities in life and you're never too old to learn either.

I don't work for John E. - I do have friends who sell the water on ebay and they sell machines as well. I know they have a couple machines (older ones before the lightbulb went into it) that they are looking to sell on ebay soon (probably this month- Jan 2008) and I also know there are some other people out there who also sell the water online.

My OWN OPINION of Mr. Ellis is this: he's been working progressively on this machine - making changes and such over the last 30 years. This takes money to do - as anyone who has invented something will tell you - and prototypes, market analysis and testing aren't cheap. That said, we've talked to him a couple times over the last 20 years and didn't purchase - until this last year - after trying the water. We bought a used machine and decided to order an additional heater (after we let it run dry by accident - for almost an hour!), (65.00 to send it back for repair, 85.00 to get a new one). We've also ordered additional extra parts - and had some slight trouble at first getting the right terminology to make them understand what we wanted - and it really did only take one phone call about the wrong parts and we got them within 3 days of calling. My opinion on the reason he is the way he is regarding business is this - many have tried to copy what he does, and he has to be leery of people who ask too many technical questions. There is also a reason that he has been "allowed" to continue in this method of purification of water - if you know what I mean - he has friends in high places. Other technologies that have come along that have been something that would revolutionize other industries have been quelched before they had time to prosper and grow - by big government concerns - and he must have to walk a fine line between what he can and can't say with regard to health claims due to federal regulations. As long as he doesn't offer any medical advice, or actual documentation on his site (he says he can send info out from the tests he posted on his site - which I have a copy of the blood test posted on his site prior to Dec. 2007), and as long as he only posts testimonials that he has in writing from others - not his own experiences with the water - he can maintain his business. This is, perhaps, why he hasn't pursued the clinical tests everyone is screaming about (though as of Dec. 2007, he stated in a phone conversation to us that he's currently working on building a lab of his own to do those tests and post the results). Perhaps he's not allowed to provide the "proof" everyone wants to "see" before they buy - because of some agreement he has made with the government or other private industry. There are agencies who utilize this technology - from what we can discern from our searching on the internet - on sites other than John E.' website. IMO - John E. is a "careful" businessman who chooses his words carefully and craftily, which makes him come off as harsh often in his dealings and uncaring. He has worked hard to be where he is in life and to be as healthy and young looking as he does. He also has to be careful to protect the business "status quo" to not rock the boat for whatever agreements are in place, must be kept that way so that it will be able to continue. Think about it - wouldn't someone who has a GREAT technology as this - SHOUT IT TO THE WORLD over all the airwaves and medias and have this thing just EXPLODE into the marketplace - if he were able to? This is a technology that perhaps our government wants to be kept somewhat on the quiet side for the eventual use of cleaning up after bio-hazards or worse? Maybe that is why he's allowed to do business, just not to shout it out from the rooftops? I'm not a Conspiracy theorist at all - but I think its odd that someone who has as many testimonials as he does and the background as he has - hasn't been able to get the word out about it faster/wider? (I know someone who has met John E. a couple times-and says he has to be careful what he says, and isn't really a huge people person, perhaps because he has to be so careful what he says and who he says it to.)

One last thing - our health benefits have ranged from asthma meds being reduced to minimal use (so far), to higher energy and rashes going away that have plagued us for years, better circulation and no more "slow flow". The biggest thing noticed by my own family is that I don't wake up cranky anymore (apparently I'm not a morning person). (We've also quit coffee (lifetime drinker), soda pop, sugary drinks and junk food for the most part (except for over Christmas - which is difficult to do) - as a result of this water - we've just lost the taste for those things in general. (one of us was a hard core lifetime Mountain Dew drinker!) We've also done a test this past Christmas (ongoing) with our Christmas Tree. We bought a "charlie brown" tree that was scraggly and losing needles (short needle baslam fir we think). It was supposedly just cut about 2 weeks before we bought it in mid-dec. We cut the end, put it up and decorated it around Dec 15th or so. We've watered it every day (except 2 times we forgot to water it - once for just a day, the other time was for 2 days almost and it was dry both times), with the purified, distilled, energized water (the good stuff). On Jan 6th we were going to take it down and noticed that it had sprouted new growth. Not just buds, or small sprigs - but 3-4" long sprigs, and not just a few - but ALL OVER THE TREE. (We're catholic and this was epiphany sunday). That seemed like a sign to us - so we left it up and keep watering it. Another thing to note is that we've not vac. under the tree since before CHRISTMAS and it has very little needle loss - and when you run fingers through the tree it doesn't really lose a lot of needles either. The new growth is light green and we have a time lapse photo series of one bud from 1st sign of green to it breaking out of the bud (about 3 days). I know other trees may bud, but this is more than I've seen for a CUT TREE, that has been run dry twice! I've contacted a couple nurseries and flower shops and the results are 50/50 - some say they're sure they've seen that before, and others say they've never seen that before and ask for an emailed picture - which we have sent them. We are also trying to bring back a wilted poinsetta from the Church as well - but have only started with that. The other thing it does do - when I watered my bamboo plant (in rocks in a glass vase) - with this water is that it did grow green algae in that water - but then I forgot to water it all through Christmas (it was behind something on a shelf) and so - poor lucky bamboo has died.

I hope this post has not been TOO LONG - and that someone may find help from this. The main thing to remember about all the posts is this - don't let one negative one or one overly positive one sway you without actually doing research (read the patents). If you are looking for a health fix - YOU MUST HAVE GOOD WATER TO GET YOUR HEALTH back under control - that is the basis of any therapy - but don't rely soley on the water - and if you are under a doctors care (what ever type of doctor you choose ie: naturopath, chiropractic, specialist or general practitioner) consult with them first before making any drastic changes in your diet, exercise or medication.

If anyone wants me to email a link to the photos of our Christmas tree or our friends ebay user id (there's some good info on their ads - with pics of their ice cubes etc.) - we may even let them use our christmas tree pic on the ad, please contact us w/your email address and we'll get back to you.

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