SAFETY: PANCREATITIS or JAUNDICE cau... 
#163096
21 y
72,482
R
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Questions:
Can I suffer serious, health threatenning condition if I do liver flush?
Can I experience stone stuck following liver flush?
Can I suffere Pancreatitis caused by stone stuck following liver flush?
Can I suffer blocked duct and jaundice if I do liver flush?
Answers:
Yes.
We can estimate, based on stories reprted on CureZone.com, that one out of 10,000 people doing Liver Flush will endup with one or several of the prblems:
- Stone stuck in bile ductcs following liver flush
- Pancreatitis - Caused by blocked common bile duct
- Jaundice, Yellow skin and eyes;
It is also estimated that over 70% of those people can solve the problem by repeating the flush immediately.
Other may need to visit doctor, may need ERCP, surgery or some other invasive procedure.
The stories of people who suffered after doing Liver Flush are copied in reply to this message.
Pancreatitis
Pancreatitis is an inflammation of the pancreas. The pancreas is a large gland behind the stomach and close to the duodenum. The duodenum is the upper part of the small intestine. The pancreas secretes digestive enzymes into the small intestine through a tube called the pancreatic duct. These enzymes help digest fats, proteins, and carbohydrates in food. The pancreas also releases the hormones insulin and glucagon into the bloodstream. These hormones help the body use the glucose it takes from food for energy.
Normally, digestive enzymes do not become active until they reach the small intestine, where they begin digesting food. But if these enzymes become active inside the pancreas, they start "digesting" the pancreas itself.
Acute pancreatitis occurs suddenly and lasts for a short period of time and usually resolves.
Chronic pancreatitis does not resolve itself and results in a slow destruction of the pancreas. Either form can cause serious complications. In severe cases, bleeding, tissue damage, and infection may occur. Pseudocysts, accumulations of fluid and tissue debris, may also develop. And enzymes and toxins may enter the bloodstream, injuring the heart, lungs, and kidneys, or other organs.
Acute Pancreatitis
Some people have more than one attack and recover completely after each, but acute pancreatitis can be a severe, life-threatening illness with many complications. About 80,000 cases occur in the United States each year; some 20 percent of them are severe. Acute pancreatitis occurs more often in men than women.
Acute pancreatitis is usually caused by Gallstones or by drinking too much alcohol
Chronic Pancreatitis
If injury to the pancreas continues, chronic pancreatitis may develop. Chronic pancreatitis occurs when digestive enzymes attack and destroy the pancreas and nearby tissues, causing scarring and pain. The usual cause of chronic pancreatitis is many years of alcohol abuse, but the chronic form may also be triggered by only one acute attack, especially if the pancreatic ducts are damaged. The damaged ducts cause the pancreas to become inflamed, tissue to be destroyed, and scar tissue to develop.
Jaundice
Jaundice is a condition produced when excess amounts of bilirubin circulating in the blood stream dissolve in the fat (the layer of fat just beneath the skin), causing a yellowish appearance of the skin and the whites of the eyes.
With the exception of physiologic jaundice in the newborn (normal newborn jaundice in the first week of life), all other jaundice indicates overload or damage to the liver, or inability to move bilirubin from the liver through the biliary tract to the gut.
JAUNDICE IN AN INFANT, CHILD, OR ADULT SHOULD ALWAYS BE MEDICALLY EVALUATED.
Newborn jaundice is common and unless associated with an abnormal condition will clear without treatment. Another condition called Gilbert's syndrome is a hereditary condition in which mild jaundice develops during times of stress. This condition, once recognized, requires no further treatment or evaluation. There are also other more rare hereditary causes of elevated bilirubin levels. All other jaundice is the result of an underlying disease, condition, or toxicity.
A yellow-to-orange color may be imparted to the skin by excessive intake of beta carotene, the orange pigment seen in carrots. People who consume large quantities of carrots or carrot juice or take beta carotene tablets may develop a distinctly yellow-orange cast to their skin. This condition is called hypercarotenemia or just carotenemia. Hypercarotenemia is easily distinguished from jaundice in that the whites of the eye (sclera) remain white, while people with true jaundice have a yellow sclera.
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- sixteen year old daughter stuck ston... paint lady
22 y
48,456
RRR Success
This is a reply to # 331,939Hi everyone:) The other night I was suffering from insomnia yet again and spent half the night off and on here. It turns out just as well as my daughter came downstairs with a fever and a lot of pain in her kidney and gallbladder area.
Apparently she had been having pain and shaking since her flush on the weekend but was telling me she was fine because she knew I would tell her she needed to flush again. I had been repeatedly asking her how she felt and did she have any pain and checking on her well being through out the first flush and the recovery period. She told me later that she wishes she had told the truth.
Well we went on and did a flush right then though it was 4 in the morning. As soon as the Epsom Salts started working she had pain relief. By 6 hours after taking the oil she was fine and felt great later that same day. It's the following day of her second flush and she is up and about as normal. Feels great, passed lots and lots of stones, and has her full appetite back though not able to handle greasy foods yet.
Make sure if any of you have someone in your household that might be of the nature to hide thier problems that you keep checking with them to see if they are alright. If I hadn't made such a fuss about it she might never have come to me and wound up in the hospital.
Thank goodness for this site as I wouldn't have known what to do if I had only had Dr. Hulda's book.
Would someone please list all the symptoms of a stuck stone? I want to print it up so that I can give it to my kids and the info is coming from someone else and not from mom.
God bless you all!
LisaAdvertisement
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- Re: sixteen year old daughter stuck ... friday
21 y
41,028
This is a reply to # 331,576Hi all - I really can't see how a 16 year-old would have stones, or why you'd want to do a flush. And, Epsom Salts don't alleviate anything - they basically cause you intestines to purge themselves.
I had a high liver test functions, and did the flush... you know where I'm at now? Had a lower AB ultrasound, endoscopy, and now waiting for a CT and liver biopsy because my liver functions are double after I did the flush.
There is no way a 16 year old is passing stones - when did my flush, the same thing everyone here is calling 'stones' are just little balls of turd. The epsom flushes your intestines - and in the final stages you're just seeing small bits of crap. Mine looked just like the 'stones' in the pictues, and after close analysis, they were just poop.
What this forum needs is some Science - I'm sure there is something good in here - but there's just too many people confusing this.- Re: sixteen year old daughter stuck ... klh
20 y
40,628
This is a reply to # 331,952Sounds like either you disolved the stones and didn't have them very bad or you just need to do another one. I agree to a point that Science should work with herbal and holistic medicine, but don't down play someone that had a great experience and got results when you didn't.
Sounds like you're disappointed that you didn't achieve the same results.
I'm actually glad to hear this worked so well. I've had many friends that have had their Gall Bladder removed with the same exact symptoms Friday and I think you did the right thing. If she didn't have gall stones, then I guess "SCIENCE" screwed up with my friends and removed a healthy gall bladder for no reason.
Good Job Friday!!!!Advertisement
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- Re: sixteen year old daughter stuck ... klh
20 y
40,628
- Re: sixteen year old daughter stuck ... Vintage
7 y
10,755
This is a reply to # 331,576Paint lady, I just want to thank you for this great post about your daughter's liver flush,...and her 'quick follow-up' flush due to the stuck stone. Good thinking! My dear grandmother had the same kind of determination and perseverance that you have, only hers was in regard to enemas, not liver flushes.
Your post encouraged me to do a Liver Flush to rid myself of pancreatitis, and the flush did help very much. I'm now three years out from being hit by a car,...the accident that caused my pancreatitis. When I don't do a Liver Flush for several months, the pancreatitis returns with a vengence. Your post was one of the most important that I read (a couple of years ago) that helped me get up the courage to do a Liver Flush despite the pancreatic pain I was having. Though, I should mention that I'd done Liver Flushes prior to being hit by that car.
- Re: sixteen year old daughter stuck ... friday
21 y
41,028
- Caution - Hospitalization - Understa... apchan
21 y
50,275
RN Warning
This is a reply to # 331,939Hi Folks: It's with some difficulty that I am writing this, however, I believe that it's important that anyone entering into flushes be educated and make the best decision for themselves. I expect some flack coming from some members, but I am hoping that these individuals understand and respect that everyone has the right to communicate and all individuals have a right to see another view and be educated when making any decisions.
Using the Clark procedure and the curezone information, I proceeded to conduct my flush. As many will see from my postings, it was successful and perfect to the "t". However, I also discovered the possible consequences of the flush. I know that all over this website it has stated that no-one has been hopitalized, etc. However, I wonder if individuals who did try the flush and ended up in the hospital did not report it. I did end-up in the hospital and I am reporting it to ensure that anyone who decides to try the flush understands that there could be complications to flushing.
After my flush, the next day I experienced vomiting and chills. The following day, I went to see the doctor and was diagnosed with jaundice. I was rushed to emergency and released from the hospital 9 days later. For one full week I was living on an IV. I had to have an ECPT surgery to remove the Gallstones that blocked the movement of bile from the liver causing jaundice, and I also developed pancreatitis. Anytime there is a blockage of Gallstones in the main bile duct, it is very dangerous and can be fatal. To take this one step further, the ducts in the area also connect to the pancreas and intestine. If there are any blockages in this area, again, it can be fatal. I was very lucky to have 3 surgeons overseeing my recovery, but it was very very dangerous and I could have lost my life.
I have a very strong and clear message. Please be educated when you make the decision to flush. I'm not telling people not to flush. However, I am telling people to make sure you fully understand what flushing can mean. Speak to your doctor and also learn more about consequences of possible blockages (http://www.medicinenet.com/Gallstones/article.htm). If you choose to flush and become ill, please go to the nearest emergency department at your local hospital immediately and fully explain to them what happened. Also, if you think it costs money to get your gallbladder out, think about how much it costs to stay at a hospital while they're trying to save your life. Remember, it's not about money; it's about your life and making the most educated and best decision for your life. If you're wondering....I still have my gallbladder.
Good luck and be educated. Andreahttp://www.medicinenet.com/Gallstones/article.htm
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- Re: Caution - Hospitalization - Unde... trinkles
20 y
46,503
This is a reply to # 331,941Thank you for informing us on this! :)
I actually am afraid of doing a "liver flush". I suffer from rosacea & I found out at the Acne Rosacea Forum that "liver flush" is the best cure for Acne & it could even cure a lot of ailments.
But, as a medical student myself, I was wondering how this "liver flush" really works. Liver is a very very vital organ! You're right, the gallbladder's & the pancreas' ducts are really narrow, and obstructions can really be fatal.
However, I found a simple recipe of this "liver flush". It's a 7-day program wherein all you do is drink apple juice, grapefruit or lemon, and virgin olive oil. And I thought: That don't seem to be harmful. I'm planning to try this "liver flush" soon, but I've read your post, and makes me think again.
People who get good results must be lucky and thankful! However, "liver flush" is still quite dangerous...
It's good to hear you're alright now, and thanks again! You might have saved my life! :)- Re: Caution - Hospitalization - Unde... apchan
20 y
46,842
This is a reply to # 332,099Thank you Trinkles. I hope that you have a better experience than I did. As a medical student, I think you're more educated with the sciences and will have greater understanding and exposure to what works and what the consequences are. Hats off to you for checking out more holistic methodologies. Since my last posting, I had another attack (approximately 5 days after I got out of the hospital) and I got jaundiced again. This time, we made the decision to take out the gallbladder (emergency situation...they found more stones caught in the bile duct...they didn't want the jaundice to continue and the threat of pancreatitis to linger). When they took out the gallbladder, it was so jammed packed with stones, that they had to make the incision a little larger to drag the sack out. As the surgeon stated, "it was packed like marbles, there was no way any bile could have been stored in it." It has been 6 months since my 3 procedures (2 ERCP's and the removal) and I'm feeling OUTSTANDING. I feel better than I have in YEARS!!! More energy and I look at least 10 years younger. I should have had the damn thing out earlier.
I spoke with several naturopaths and chiropractors and based on what I told them about the condition of my gallbladder, they agreed that the surgeons and specialists did the right thing. The gallbladder was too far gone that I would have ended up with pancreatis and jaundice for the rest of my life. Remember...jaundice is toxic to the body...it's poisoning of the blood. Since the procedures, I have lost 20 pounds, I look great and feel even better (ie. regular bowl movements and more energy). I DO NOT account the improvements due surgery, but I do account the surgery to MAKING ME change my lifestyle. I do need to be careful of what I eat because I have to make sure I digest everything properly, and I also watch my intake of fatty foods. It's very rare to see me eat french fries, chips or any other deep fried foods. I KNOW I did the right thing by getting my gallbladder out and I KNOW that my doctors took excellent care of me. Just remember, for every bad story you hear, there are also many many successful and happy stories out there. People have a tendency to complain about all the bad things and don't really take the time to talk about the really good things. Anyways, I wish everyone luck with their gallbladders....I don't have a thing to worry about anymore!!!!!! I'm happier than a pig in @#$%.
I read some of the other postings, especially the ones from Spirit and I think it's important to remember that stones can get caught in the bile duct with or without the flush. Scaring people with stats (from what recognized medical journal?) and also playing doctor is not a good thing. Modern medicine was developed for a reason, because the older/traditional remedies weren't effective enough or couldn't cure...therefore people were in constant pain or died earlier than they should have. If you're in pain or if you're jaundiced (one easy way to know is via your urine...it turns a little rusty in colour), go to the nearest emergency department. If you have a fever, chills, are throwing up or just feeling sick, GO TO THE HOSPITAL. If it's nothing, they'll send you home, but if it's serious, they'll make sure that you're taken care of. Don't play doctor, unless you're a real licensed medical physician. Just remember, if you would go to the hospital for a broken finger or stitches, why wouldn't go to the hospital for internal pain inside your body? Which is more serious? You don't need a PHD to answer this question.
Best of luck to everyone. I DON'T HAVE MY GALLBLADDER ANYMORE, and I'm damn happy!!! I have absolutely NO regrets.Advertisement
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- Re: Caution - Understanding Conseque... ebk777
20 y
45,612
This is a reply to # 332,103I think one has to understand the severity of a condition and the best way to correct it at each stage. It seems that your gallbladder was in very serious condition and only surgery could help.
It is wise to understand that every part of our body is important. The gallbladder concentrates bile to one tenth of it's original volume to enable digestive processes further down the line. Without this, you will now have to take very great care with your digestion for the rest of your life so you will not have more problems. I think I would try less drastic measures first, to retain my gallbladder. Perhaps a dissolving and softening protocol might have helped before trying a flush. Unfortunately we often discover these things as hindsite.
It may be worthwhile to keep in mind that stones can also form in the liver. Many people without gallbladders have passed hundreds of stones. It may be a more sobering experience to have to part with a liver.
Because I have had many serious health issues, I have struggled to find the answers too and tried many things as well. I used the Hulda Clark Liver Cleanse and eliminated about 1000 gallstones, most in my first cleanse. I have done about 30 Liver Cleanses since and am only getting to the point where my liver is clear. In addition to this I have done parasite, kidney and Bowel Cleanse (mucoid plaque removal). Gallstones, kidney stones and mucoid plaque removeal are obvious signs of house housecleaning and are very beneficial for the body. Less obvious and more difficult to deal with are the toxins and heavy metals lodged in the tissues throughout the body. Once the body is cleared and has the resources to remove the tissue toxins a person can become very fatigued and the immune system seriously depressed if these toxins are not removed. Dr. Max Gerson during his treatment of critically people determined that coffee enemas stimulate the liver to aid in the removeal of the toxins while chemicals in the coffee carry it through the digestive tract. Without the coffee the toxins would continue to recirculate in the body causing major problems. The information is compiled most completely by his daughter Charlotte Gerson in 'The Gerson Therapy'.
- Re: Caution - Hospitalization - Unde... #34050
19 y
44,269
This is a reply to # 332,103Hi,
I know this is an old message here, but this statement:
"Modern medicine was developed for a reason, because the older/traditional remedies weren't effective enough or couldn't cure...therefore people were in constant pain or died earlier than they should have."
is absolutely, positively FALSE. The only reason we use the ALLOPATHIC method is because the Rockafellers supported the research. It was purely political. Homeopathy was the leading source of medical treatment until the Rockafellers got involved. Then the Allopathic believers and supporters, got the government to certify ONLY their Schools and later made rules that if an Allopathic trained doctor used any other method of treatment (like natural, homeopathy or ANYTHING else) they they would lose their license to practice medicine. SOOOOO The ONLY REASON WE USE THE TYPE OF MEDICAL PRACTICE THAT WE USE TODAY IS POLITICAL!!! NOT because it was better, but because of money and power.
Many, many, many well researched books have been written about this. Please educate yourself before you make such statements.
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- Re: Caution - Hospitalization - Unde... dollmaker
19 y
43,477
This is a reply to # 332,103Hi I know this is old but you said you look 10 yrs younger after surgery, what did you notice as a difference, I have problems with mine and I feel like I look 10 years older my eyes are kinda puffy on upper area etc. just wondering if it has anything to do with gallbaldder. Thanks
- Re: Caution - Hospitalization - Unde... kstc
15 y
40,543
This is a reply to # 332,103Dear Apcan,
I understand you had a problem; however, I have many reasons I would not go to the doctor. Charlotte Gerson is famous for saying the most dangerous people are doctors, and the second most dangerous people are dentists.
For example, the Gerson therapy (developed, and applied by medical doctors) sucessfully treats pancreatic cancer. Unfortunately the Gerson Therapy has not yet worked for any patient with pancreatic cancer after chemo.
I have a patient I am following up with pancreatic cancer. This patient was pre-treated with chemotherapy, and now has a damage immune system and his prospects are very bad.
Also what does medicine cure? People with high cholestorol today, have it tomorrow, next year, and forever.
Patients with appendecitis get their appendix removed. Others get their tonsils removed. What is it they are curing?
You got your Gallbladder removed.
People with diabetes always have diabetes under conventional treatment. Interestingly, I have seen cases of patients with diabetes who have had it go away is as short as 3 weeks.
I will agree that a person needs someone who really understands natural treatments. Perhap if you were working with an experience practitioner, he might have directed you to do a gentle 21 day gallbladder flush, before trying a 7 day strong flush. Possibly the practitioner could have directed with a remedy that would have saved you from the 9 days in the hospital, and also from the gallblader removal.
I understand where Charlotee Gerson is coming from.
- Re: Caution - Understanding Conseque... ebk777
20 y
45,612
- Re: Caution - Hospitalization - Unde... wdcgator
20 y
44,317
This is a reply to # 332,099Advertisement
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For what it is worth I feel this site has saved my GB. I came here two years ago when I was having serious GB pain. I was scheduled for surgery and cancelled it. The doctor told me what I was doing was life threatening. I have not had one problem until last week. It has been 6 months since my last flush. I was doing them every other month and getting stones out. I was just too busy to flush.
Last week I had another attack. I was out of town. I rushed to the nearest store and got my epson salt and olive oil and went to work.
I drank 4 ounces of the oil right away to relieve the pain. It did. Then I started the epson routine etc. More stones and big ones.
Pain gone. Stones gone. GB still with me and doing well. The head of gastro a friend of mine said what I am doing is excellent. If and when it does not work then maybe we will have to take the GB out. Until then keep flushing. It is painless just a little distastful.
Good Luck..- Re: Caution - Hospitalization - Unde... #31286
20 y
43,849
- Re: Caution - Hospitalization - Unde... #31286
20 y
43,849
- Re: Caution - Hospitalization - Unde... apchan
20 y
46,842
- Re: Caution - Hospitalization - Unde... trinkles
20 y
46,503
- Negative experience, - caused by flu... #162983
21 y
48,471
This is a reply to # 331,939To: gallstones@yahoogroups.com
From: echies@writeme.com
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 15:51:28 -0000
Reply-To: gallstones@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [gallstones] What do I use to break up stones before flush.
I did my first flush last week. The morning of my flush after the
Epsom Salt at 6:00am I had a attack, then after the next Epsom Salt
another mild attack. I passed about 200 pea and rice size stones
(Praise the Lord). That evening when I ate chicken soup(2 bowls) it
through me into a massive attack (threw up) my worst yet, I was in
the ER after the pain wouldn't go away after 4 hours. I think some
of the stones are to big and are getting stuck. Is their something I
could take to break them down before I do the flush again. I am a
breastfeeding mom so that may limit what I can take.
God Bless.
Thank you,
Heidi
=====================================
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From: echies@writeme.com
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2001 12:30 am
Subject: Re: What do I use to break up stones before flush.
I did The Clark Flush , followed it to the letter. I don't know what
the problem really was. The week before I trying a different flush,
3 days only apple juice then olive oil and lemon juice. I had a bad
attack the day after that one to. I didn't pass any stone, that I
could tell. I'm a bit scared to try again. I could use all the
advise I could get. I mentioned the flush to Doctor, he looked at me
like I was crazy and said " they were probably not gall stones", HA!
I know they were. Heidi
=====================================
=====================================
From: echies@writeme.com
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2001 2:41 am
Subject: Re: What do I use to break up stones before flush.
> Heidi, do you know the size of your stones?
I don't know, forgot to ask.
Heidi
=====================================
=====================================
From: echies@writeme.com
Date: Sun Oct 7, 2001 8:40 pm
Subject: Re: What do I use to break up stones before flush.
I'm sorry it was taken so long to reply to your message. I was
hospitalized twice last week with gallbladder attacks and
unfortunately had it removed on Thursday. I will answer your
question in a hope it will help someone else.
The first attack lasted about 45 minutes and was on a scale of 1-10,
a 8. the second and third were milder 4 and the last after the
homemade chicken soup was a 7 that just would not stop, I believe it
lasted 7 hours. The later attack came after eating eggs which had
not been a trigger food for me before. The attack lasted 40 minutes
it was a 7, after recovering for 20 minute I drank 3 ounces of juice
only to get another attack. That one lasted 7 hours before I went to
the hospital and then 6 more after that.
I'm a 32 year old female
5 children our youngest being 9 months old
I'm half Swiss and half Spanish
5'2'' and 40 pounds over weight
My diet is very bad lots of fatty deserts
no glasses
One German Shepard.
Did not do the parasites cleanse yet.
I think I trying to much to fast without making enough dietary
changes did me in. The frequent attacks caused inflammation ( stones
stuck)and infection which led to more attacks. I do hope some one
can learn from my mistakes. If you have good information on what I
do now I would love the information. I know I traded one problem for
another. Thank you all for your help, Heidi
=====================================
=====================================
From: "echies"
Date: Fri Oct 12, 2001 6:25 pm
Subject: Attack during flush (Heidi)
Trying to answer some questions. This is Heidi. My first flush I did was the
only apple juice for 3 days and then 3 ounces of lemon and 3 ounces of olive
oil. Before I did this flush I had only had 2 mild attacks, (only when I ate 2
or 3 really fatty meals in a row with little water). It was after the first
flush when my problems really started. I did not get stones out with the first
flush. The morning after the first flush when I ate for the first time I had
bad attack lasting 3-4 hours. It was bad but I could feel it as it moved down
my back and chest until it passed. I learned after that attack if I breathed
deep and relaxed it would go away faster, so ever attack after that one I would
lay in bed and relax until it was over. I don't believe fear was a part of it.
The two attacks that landed me in the hospital were after the 2nd flush (Clark
flush) I got rid of 200 small stones, but I was more susceptible to attacks for
some reason. The attacks that put me in the hospital were different, the pain
was not excruciating but, it just would not go away. I am a healthy person with
no other health problems. I wish I would not have had my gallbladder out, I
would have tried to flush more. I traded one problem for another, I would
recommend people to try the flushes and don't give up.
Heidi
=======================
=======================
From: "Dax"
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 15:29:10 -0000
Subject: Re: [gallstones] Cola and Epsom Salts
Reply-To: gallstones@yahoogroups.com
> >Ira asks:
> >I therefore ask anyone who's reading: what evidence is there for the
claim
> >that Epsom Salts open up (dilate) the bile ducts?
I can only answer this from personal experience...but then that is often far
closer the truth than scientific reasoning...:)
I did my 3rd flush using large quantities of Japps Health salts which
certainly cleared my bowels...but I had negative results regarding stones
(not a stone in sight...which kind of negates the olive oil soap theory!)
and was in terrific pain for a week afterwards. I decided to do another
flush a week later (still in pain) and did it with the Epsoms as I had
before. Successful results and the pain vanished. Now, I decided that I had
gotten a stone stuck in the Japps flush and that was why I was in constant
pain afterwards...believe me, I felt really bad.
Conclusion: I will never flush without my Epsoms again! No way do I want THAT pain again.
But, I also have to add that we are all different and I have no doubt that
just as some people have larger pores than others, so some have wider bile
ducts than others...in which case, there may be no need to dilate them
further. Y'know, scientists and pharmacists come up with all these amazing
drugs to cure this and that, but we can't ALL take the same drugs...they
have different effects on different people. My son can't take penicillin -
it would kill him - but I can. Same thing for the flush...it's a question of
finding out what works best for you. Some people have no need for the
Epsoms...I do.
HTH
Dax
=======================
=======================
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gallstones/message/9506
From: "eulavye"
Date: Tue Mar 12, 2002 5:37 am
Subject: gallstone flush
hi there people! just want to share my experience with you guys and
its not so ok. i just had a gallstone flush last satruday, march 10
and everything was ok until i woke up at 4am and im having an
attack. i felt very awful. are you suppose to have an attack while
doing the cleanse?
i felt awful the whole day of monday. the whole day, i was in pain.
i have to take pain relievers so the pain would go away.
the flush was successful. i had passed out stones but not too many.
maybe around 300 stones and im afraid to repeat it again as i might
suffer an attack again while doing the flush.
the Epsom Salt was awful. can anyone sugegst an alternative for that?
the olive oil and grapefruit juice was ok. easier to swallow than
the epsom salt with water.
im still not ok while making this email. i feel weak from the flush
i have done sunday evening.
just want to talk with someone to assure me that im doing the right
thing instead of surgery
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//www.curezone.org/forums/message.asp?ForumID=4&MessageID=587&P=10
One message (attack when cleansing) from gallstones@yahoogroups.com:
===========================
From: "michelevaudin" < michele_vaudin@in-press.co.uk>
Date: Mon Feb 25, 2002 12:24 pm
Subject: 1st Flush and now scared to do this again!
Hi guys,
Well...what a weekend I had! Did my first ever Liver Flush on Friday
night using Dr Clark's recipe but upped the oil to 3/4 cup and equal
amounts of grapefruit juice as well as having 5 TBSspoons of Epsom
salts. (had previous dealings with Epsom Salts and knew I'de need
a 'boost' to help things move along!)
Was fine all night and decided to lie first on my back for the 20
minutes and then on my left for about 10 minutes, on my right for
another 10 minutes and then fell asleep on my back.
By 4am I started passing 'stones' and sludge and was all pretty
painfree. The stones were whole when they came out but as soon as I
tried to pick them up they easily 'dissolved' into 'squidge' as I
examined them. I've been taking Gold Coin Grass and Coptis for the
past 3 weeks as part of my juicing routine and feel this was
responsible.
The stones were green inside and therefore presuming these were
cholesterol stones from the liver.
As I continued taking the Epsom Salts at the prescribed times, I kept
passing various sized 'stones' and later on loads of sludge and sand-
like grit.FANTASTIC!!!
But...by 10.30am I was in absolute agony. I have never had an attack
this painful in my life. I have a calcified stone of 17mm in my
gallbladder and knew full well this was the culprit to the pain. I
was throwing up and writhing around for 5 hours and if a surgoen was
in my bedroom I would have begged him through tear-stained eyes to
cut me open to end the pain.If it wasn't for my boyfriend being there
and clearing up after me (vomitting water, bile, grapefuit and oil),
helping me between bedroom and bathroom I really dont know what I'de
have done.
The last one I had which even came close to this was on holiday in
Greece last year after eating and drinking everything and anything
and ended up with an attack. This weekend's one by far beat that!
By 3.30pm I woke up after getting an exhausted hours sleep and the
pain had subsided slightly. I just sat on my bed and wept. I am
absolutely gutted that it caused this attack as although I
desperately want to continue flushing to get rid of all the other
stuff in my liver (I was sooooo pleased to see what I was passing!)
and I knew it could be months/years before passing the 'biggie', but
I cannot do another cleanse and risk undergoing that again.
Bt 9 that night, the attack came back (although not with the same
vengeance) and lasted until 7.30am the next morning. Ended up in the
bath from 3 to 5am to try and ease the pain a little.
Has anyone who has a calicified stone in their GBs ever had an attack
brought on by doing the flush?
What on earth am I going to do now????
Please, any suggestions I'de greatly appreciate. I'm off work for 2
weeks due to having a ganglion operation and therefore will not be
able to read any of your postings after tues afternoon. (crap timing
as usual).
With much anticipation, still sore and deeply gutted!
Michele
//www.curezone.org/forums/message.asp?ForumID=4&MessageID=587&P=10
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To: gallstones@yahoogroups.com
From: "Rachel Schurdevin"
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 18:23:31 -0500
Subject: Re: [gallstones] Any Bad Experiences Doing Flush?
Reply-To: gallstones@yahoogroups.com
I had one bad experience, I did 3 flushes and the last one I got a horrible
gallbladder attack and it was horrible because I started vomiting and it was
just really gross., but my first 2 were ok. I would suggest putting the
olive oil and juice in a blender first, it mixes better than just stirring,
I also have heard of a flush using cola, and I heard this one actually works
better, and I also heard that using turkey rhubarb capsules helps soften the
stones before flushing. Good luck! (I ended up getting my gallbladder
removed after all, the flushes just werent working for me)
- Re: I am going to scare you even mor... Spirit
21 y
48,954
RN Educational
This is a reply to # 331,939Advertisement
Bio Cleanse Detox Kit
”I was surprised by the effectiveness of it, and I wasn’t hungry.”
Tara,
nothing in this life is 100% safe. Certainly not Liver flush.Life itself is not 100% safe. Every year hundreds of thousands of people die inside their home, never attempting liver flush, never holding a gun in their hands, never trying bungi-jumping or enema.
The real question is not whether or not liver flush is safe?, the question is:
Is it safer to flush, or not to flush?
WHAT IS SAFER?
Can you answer that question?
Consider this:
Incidence (annual) of Cancer: 1,248,900 annual cases (SEER 2002 estimate)
Incidence Rate: approx 1 in 217 or 0.46% or 1.2 million people in USA [about data]
Lifetime risk for Cancer: about 1 in 3 lifetime risk.Statistically, if you have a family of 3, one of you will encounter cancer during life.
Pancreatitis can be a severe, life-threatening illness with many complications.
About 80,000 cases occur in the United States alone each year; some 20 percent (16,000) of them are severe, life-threatening.
(Those cases, we will all agree, refer to people who never tried liver flush, because most people in the world never consciously attempted liver flush.)
Consider this:
My educated guess is that by flushing liver regularly, you are:
- 1,000 times decreasing your chances of ever encountering Pancreatitis.
- 1,000,000 times decreasing your chances of ever encountering Symptomatic Gallstones.
- 500,000 times decreasing your chances of ever encountering Cholecystectomy.(1% of deaths)
- 1,000 times .... Heart Disease. (30.3% of deaths)
- 100,000 times .... Cancer. (23.0% of deaths)
- 500,000 times .... Diabetes Type I and II.(2.9% of deaths)
- 500,000 times ... Allergies.
- 1,000 times ... Arthritis.
- 1,000 times ... IBD/Colitis/Chron's.
- 1,000 times ... Psoriasis.
- 1,000 times ... Eczema.
- 500 times ... Alzheimer.
- 500 times ... Parkinson's.
- 500 times ... Multiple Sclerosis.
- 1,000 times ... Life threatening Flu.
- 1,000 times ... Death Caused by Doctor's Error.(30% of deaths)
- 1,000 times ... 100s of other conditions.
Why did I chose those illness?
Because over 90% of deaths in USA, Canada, UK (and the rest of the western world) are directly or indirectly associated with the above mentioned conditions.
Is it safer to flush, or not to flush?
What is your answer?
Statistics
By flushing your liver, you are many times decreasing your chances of becoming a part of similar statistics:
Heart disease
Prevalence and incidence statistics for Heart disease: (see also prevalence and incidence page for Heart disease)
Prevalance of Heart disease: 155 per 1000 - NHIS95; 58 million; 9 million American women (NHLBI); 370,000 women die annually
Prevalance Rate: approx 1 in 6 or 15.50% or 42.2 million people in USA [about data]
Death and mortality statistics for Heart disease:
Deaths from Heart disease: 725,192 annual deaths (NVSR Sep 2001); 30.3% of deaths
Cause of death rank: 1st leading cause of death in 1999 and 2000 (CDC).
Average life years lost for Heart disease: 11.0 years (SEER)
Society statistics for Heart disease
Costs for Heart disease: $214.0 billion with $115.0b direct, $19.0b morbidity, $80.0b mortality (NHLBI 2002)
Costs for Heart disease: Heart disease and stroke cost the nation almost $260 billion annually. 1
Footnotes:
1. excerpt from Facts About Cardiovascular Disease: CDC-OC
Gallstones:
Statistics about Gallstones
From: http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/g/gallstones/stats.htmAbout statistics: This page presents a variety of statistics about Gallstones. The term 'prevalence' of Gallstones usually refers to the estimated population of people who are managing Gallstones at any given time. The term 'incidence' of Gallstones refers to the annual diagnosis rate, or the number of new cases of Gallstones diagnosed each year. Hence, these two statistics types can differ: a short-lived disease like flu can have high annual incidence but low prevalence, but a life-long disease like diabetes has a low annual incidence but high prevalence. For more information see about prevalence and incidence statistics.
Prevalence and incidence statistics for Gallstones: (see also prevalence and incidence page for Gallstones)
Prevalance of Gallstones: 16 million - 16 to 22 million people (1976-87/NIDDK); 1 in 10 Americans has gallstones
Prevalance Rate: approx 1 in 17 or 5.88% or 16 million people in USA [about data]
Prevalance of Gallstones: Symptomatic gallstones result in 600,000 hospitalizations and more than 500,000 operations each year in the United States. 1 ... Prevalence: 16 to 22 million people (1976-87)2
Death and mortality statistics for Gallstones:
Deaths from Gallstones: 2,975 deaths (NIDDK 1985)
Deaths from Gallstones: Mortality: 2,975 (1985)3
Hospitalizations for Gallstones: Hospitalizations: 800,000 (1987)4
Physician office visits for Gallstones: Physician office visits: 600,000 to 700,000 (1985)5
Prescriptions for Gallstones: Prescriptions: 195,000 (1985)6
Disability from Gallstones: Disability: 48,000 people (1983-87) 7
Procedures for Gallstones: Surgical procedures: 500,000 cholecystectomies (1987)8
Footnotes:
1. excerpt from Dieting and Gallstones: NIDDK
2. excerpt from Digestive Diseases Statistics: NIDDK
3. excerpt from Digestive Diseases Statistics: NIDDK
4. excerpt from Digestive Diseases Statistics: NIDDK
5. excerpt from Digestive Diseases Statistics: NIDDK
6. excerpt from Digestive Diseases Statistics: NIDDK
7. excerpt from Digestive Diseases Statistics: NIDDK
8. excerpt from Digestive Diseases Statistics: NIDDK
Cancer:
Prevalence and Incidence of Cancer
Incidence (annual) of Cancer: 1,248,900 annual cases (SEER 2002 estimate)
Incidence Rate: approx 1 in 217 or 0.46% or 1.2 million people in USA [about data]
Lifetime risk for Cancer: about 1 in 3 lifetime risk.Death and mortality statistics for Cancer:
Deaths from Cancer: 555,500 annual deaths (SEER 2002 estimate); 549,838 annual deaths in 1999 (NVSR Sep 2001); 23.0% of deaths.
Cause of death rank: 2nd top cause of death in 1999 and 2000 (CDC)
Average life years lost for Cancer: 15.0 years (SEER)
Diabetes:
Prevalence and incidence statistics for Diabetes: (see also prevalence and incidence page for Diabetes)
Prevalance of Diabetes: 16 million Americans with 10.3 million diagnosed and 8.1 million women (NWHIC); 65 per 1000 - NHIS95; 8 million - perhaps 16 million if include not-yet-diagnosed.
Prevalance Rate: approx 1 in 17 or 5.88% or 16 million people in USA [about data]
Incidence (annual) of Diabetes: approximately 798,000 new cases diagnosed annually in USA (CDC-OC)
Incidence Rate: approx 1 in 340 or 0.29% or 798,000 people in USA [about data]
Undiagnosed prevalence of Diabetes: 5.7 million Americans (based on NWHIC)
Undiagnosed prevalence rate: approx 1 in 47 or 2.10% or 5.7 million people in USA [about data]
Prevalance of Diabetes: According to recent estimates, the prevalence of diabetes in the United States is predicted to be 8.9 percent of the population by 2025. 1 ... About 16 million Americans have diabetes, but only about 10 million have been diagnosed.2
Incidence of Diabetes: Approximately 798,000 new cases of diabetes are diagnosed annually in the United States.3 ... New cases diagnosed per year: 798,000. 4
Death and mortality statistics for Diabetes:
Deaths from Diabetes: 68,399 annual deaths; 2.9% of deaths (CDC/1999)
Cause of death rank: 6th leading cause of death in 1999 and 2000 (CDC).
Average life years lost for Diabetes: 13.8 years (SEER)
Society statistics for Diabetes
Costs for Diabetes: DCCT researchers estimate that intensive management doubles the cost of managing diabetes because of increased visits to a health care professional and the need for more frequent blood testing at home. However, this cost is offset by the reduction in medical expenses related to long-term complications and by the improved quality of life of people with diabetes.5
Footnotes:
1. excerpt from Diabetes Overview: NIDDK
2. excerpt from Facts About Diabetes: CDC-OC
3. excerpt from Facts About Diabetes: CDC-OC
4. excerpt from Diabetes Statistics in the United States: NIDDK
5. excerpt from Diabetes Control and Complications Trial (DCCT): NIDDK
Arthritis:
Prevalence and incidence statistics for Arthritis: (see also prevalence and incidence page for Arthritis)
Prevalance of Arthritis: 37 million Americans (NIAMS); 245 per 1000 - NHIS95; 43 million
Prevalance Rate: approx 1 in 7 or 13.60% or 37 million people in USA [about data]
Prevalance of Arthritis: An estimated 40 million people in the United States have arthritis or other rheumatic conditions. By the year 2020, this number is expected to reach 59 million. Rheumatic diseases are the leading cause of disability among adults age 65 and older.1
Society statistics for Arthritis
Costs for Arthritis: $15.2 billion annually
Costs for Arthritis: Recent estimates place the direct medical cost of arthritis at $15.2 billion per year, with total costs of medical care and lost wages exceeding $64 billion. 2
Footnotes:
1. excerpt from Questions and Answers About Arthritis and Rheumatic Diseases: NIAMS
2. excerpt from Facts About Arthritis: CDC-OC
Misdiagnosis
Misdiagnosis can and does occur and is reasonably common with error rates ranging from 1.4% in cancer biopsies to a high 20-40% misdiagnosis rate in emergency or ICU care. Surveys of patients also indicate the chance of experiencing a misdiagnosis to range from 8% to 40%. This makes misdiagnosis one of the most common types of medical mistakes.
There are various reasons as to why a misdiagnosis can occur including errors by doctors, specialists, and laboratory tests. The patient can also contribute to an error in various ways.
There are various types of misdiagnosis ranging from a totally wrong diagnosis to a partial misdiagnosis as to the wrong subtype, underlying condition, medication causes, related conditions, or complications. Conditions for which a person never seeks medical advice are also a common type of misdiagnosis.
Misdiagnosis does not occur equally for all conditions but follows certain patterns. Some conditions are inherently more difficult to diagnose, whereas common familiar conditions are less commonly misdiagnosed. Some diseases are over-diagnosed whereas other conditions are more commonly under-diagnosed or overlooked.
- Re: safety measures in worst case sc... #14655
20 y
45,337
This is a reply to # 331,945what will be the safety measures somebody should take in
experiencing worst case scenerio after doing Liver Flush ?
Thanks,- Re: safety measures in worst case sc... Spirit
20 y
46,357
R
This is a reply to # 332,021In case of any unpleasant symptoms that you may encounter during or after the flush, the best what has been reported is to do another flush immediately.
In case of pancreatitis caused by a stone blocking common bile duct, another flush could push that stone out, and there is no pancreatitis, and no need for surgery.
Beware that symptoms and problems can only appear if you have large stones inside your biliary tree, and most people who has stones of that size are symptomatic.
So, if you are symptomatic, your chances of encountering any problems during the flush are higher, then in case of people who have no pain symptoms.
Be also aware that less then one out of 5000 people reported any serious symptoms ... so ... you have to see the problem from both sides ...
Number of people encountering problems with surgery is hundreds time higher ...
Number of people dying from cancer is hundreds time higher ...
Number of people dying from heart attack is hundreds time higher ...
But, all this is just rambling based on statistics ... and considering that you are not a statistic, you are somebody, statistics can only help you by giving you some idea what may happen ... statistics can never tell you what will happen.
Spirit
- would a ct scan show liver or gall s... #26891
20 y
44,321
This is a reply to # 332,100Advertisement
Bio Cleanse Detox Kit
”I was surprised by the effectiveness of it, and I wasn’t hungry.”
I am 35 and I recently had a ct scan for pain in the abdomen. Nothing appeared abnormal. My blood test prior had shown a very slight elevation in the liver, 40 normal, mine was 41. I am tired of the mild/med. pain in my mid/right section and worried. My doctor said that my elevation (41) could be due to excercise (about an hour and a half a day)
I also drink wine, most days with dinner or after.
Anyone who has experienced similar, do you think a flush is the way to go?
Where do I get all of these products needed? Any health store?
Also, I think I will let my doctor know before I decide.
Thanks- Re: would a ct scan show liver or ga... dogbert04
20 y
45,517
This is a reply to # 332,108CT being based on Xray may not show stones at all.
>I also drink wine, most days with dinner or after.
Me Too!
>Anyone who has experienced similar, do you think a flush is the way to go?
Yup, I was up one point. Later it went up +15 points. An ultrasound showed stones. Thank GOD I found this flush a few days before surgery, had great results, and cancelled it - only to get crap from the surgeon. Read my other posts!
>Where do I get all of these products needed? Any health store?
ES, GF, OO, almost any supermarket will do. Many use organic stuff, that may take a health food market.
>Also, I think I will let my doctor know before I decide.
Some folks docs have said it won't hurt. www.askwaltstollmd.com or something like that Walt Stoll endorses more or less the Hulda Clark method used here.
-dog- Re: would a ct scan show liver or ga... #26891
20 y
43,844
This is a reply to # 332,109Advertisement
Bio Cleanse Detox Kit
”I was surprised by the effectiveness of it, and I wasn’t hungry.”
Thankyou for your message. I am sitting here thinking I am dying a slow death - liver failure.
I am really ready to try this, but the parasite cleanse and zapping is sort of overwhelming me. I also don't know where to get a Zapper and what the best product is, if I were to buy one.
Also I have 2 kids and 2 pug dogs, it overwhelms me that the recommendation is to parasite and zap them too!
I still need to get the book, but I would like to flush as soon as I can. Any thoughts out there?
p.s. It is hard enough to keep up with cleaning the house!- Re: would a ct scan show liver or ga... Spirit
20 y
43,235
- Re: would a ct scan show liver or ga... Spirit
20 y
43,235
- Re: would a ct scan show liver or ga...
- Re: would a ct scan show liver or ga... dogbert04
20 y
45,517
- Re: safety measures in worst case sc... fitecancer
19 y
44,983
This is a reply to # 332,100Dear Spirit,
My wife has Gallstones and she also has cancer. We did a parasite cleanse for a few weeks but not the kidney cleanse. I have a couple of questions. I too am very skeptical, not about the Liver Flush but my confidence in helping my wife through this flush as she has encountered a number of side effects through the many years of cancer from allopathic medicine. So, I just don't want her to go through any more discomfort.
My question is this, how do I get over this fear that I have?
And, you mentioned if there is some pain or discomfort to do another cleanse right away. Am confused as to what ingredients of the cleanse would I do for her? The Dr. Clark Liver Flush has progressions of the flush with various ingredients, Epsom Salts , olive oil, etc. What in your opinion, would you use to do a flush immediately if the person, my wife, felt pain?
Would you also mind sending your reply to my e-mail address?
fitecancer@earthlink.net
Thank you,
Marty - Re: safety measures in worst case sc... Vintage
8 y
12,771
This is a reply to # 332,100Advertisement
Bio Cleanse Detox Kit
”I was surprised by the effectiveness of it, and I wasn’t hungry.”
11/23/2016
Hi Spirit,
I searched out this forum because I wanted to find persons who believe, as I do, in the value of liver flushes. I was hit by a car two and a half years ago. Since then I have suffered with "undiagnosed" pancreatitis. Because my injuries from the accident were so severe (amputation, paralysis, nicked spleen), it took me about ten months to figure out that my backpain was pancreatitis.
I could write a post a mile long on the pain and frustration that I've suffered, but I won't for now...because what has brought me here is really just the desire to "connect" with other people who are in awe of this wonderful, life-saving process called a liver flush. I had done Liver Flushes from time to time before the car hit me. And, I did a couple of Liver Flushes after my accident, but I was in nursing homes at the time, and the personnel were not at all supportive. (It was a total nightmare...they wanted to give me "Immodium"!) Now I am home. I did two more liver flushes...not even well done...but I seem to have gotten my life back from the fiendish nightmare of pancreatitis! I ate pecans day-before-yesterday with no attack. I ate full fat yogurt yesterday with no attack. And I ate beef stew today with no attack. These were items that would have put me in out-of-my-mind-agony before doing those last two flushes. Yet now as I sit here, I can gently push on my upper digestive tract without pain. It is soft and yields when I push on it, not hard and swollen. I will do more flushes...probably another in a few days.
Yes, I've come here to share my story with people who know what a 'liver flush' is. But more than sharing my story...I want to ask, "Why can no one 'get through' to the people who are suffering the agony of pancreatitis with the information they need?" The end to their suffering might be only days away...in the form of a liver flush. Is it possible that (1) they are too sick and in too much pain to think it through themselves, and (2) there is no practitioner of alternative medicine able to take the legal risk of assisting them?
When you read forums of pancreatitis sufferers, there is no presence of anyone suggesting that sufferers do 'liver flushes'. It's all about tests, diagnoses, stints, removing gallbladders, extreme diets, painkillers, anti-spasmotics, ...even removing the pancreas entirely and transplanting some pancreatic islet cells over into the liver. Is there no practitioner of alternative medicine or medical doctor 'out there' to whom we can refer these sick and suffering people?
- Re: safety measures in worst case sc... Steve888
8 y
12,936
This is a reply to # 2,344,160I agree it's very frustrating trying to share this info with people who have been raised in the medical mindset. I tried to share the Liver Flush with a friend suffering with constant nausea, pancreas pain, gallbladder/liver pain and can't digest her food. She told me that she asked her doctor about it and he said "don't do it! You could get a stone stuck and then be in worse shape!" I told her the stones are already stuck and that's why you are having the pain. As they say you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink it.
- Re: safety measures in worst case sc... Vintage
8 y
12,572
This is a reply to # 2,344,171Thanks Steve. Yes, I think you're right. And BTW, that cleanse I did has had long-lasting good results. I can now eat some cheese and have the normal amount of grease in my soups. Tastes wonderful. I'm so sorry for the people who have pancreatitis, but have no one to support them in doing a liver flush. Yes, things CAN go wrong, but the same is true of any medical proceedure performed by a doctor.
I've run across (online) liver cleanse clinics that have a doctor on staff. Out of curiosity, I would like to call them and find out how they feel about accepting a person who has a "pancreatitis diagnosis". I just haven't had time to do this yet. I've been busy cooking and enjoying food again!Advertisement
Bio Cleanse Detox Kit
”I was surprised by the effectiveness of it, and I wasn’t hungry.”
- Re: safety measures in worst case sc... Steve888
8 y
12,324
- Re: safety measures in worst case sc... Steve888
8 y
12,324
- Re: safety measures in worst case sc... Vintage
8 y
12,572
- Re: safety measures in worst case sc... Steve888
8 y
12,936
- would a ct scan show liver or gall s... #26891
20 y
44,321
- Re: safety measures in worst case sc... Spirit
20 y
46,357
R
- sixteen year old daughter stuck ston... paint lady
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