Vitamin D appears to be 800% more ef... 
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To be honest I don't want to read the whole study but the first thing that jumps out is the terminology used.
This in particular:
Flu vaccines, according to the latest scientific evidence, achieve a 1 percent reduction in influenza symptoms
vs:
This means vitamin D appears to be 800% more effective than vaccines at preventing influenza infections in children.
Did they mean to say that VitD is 800% more effective in prevention influenza symptom? I would hope that an Immunosuppressive steroid is more effective in preventing symptoms...even more effective than a bunch of Metals and chemicals in vaccines...
So these headlines are really misleading, it should say symptoms not infections. Unless they did a viral study on each child after the test.
http://www.naturalnews.com/029760_vitamin_D_influenza.html
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This is a reply to # 1,690,411I recently discovered that Lard has Vitamin D in it.
so that's good right? - wishful thinkin trapper/kcmo
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- Re: wishful thinkin Newport
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MoreThis is a reply to # 1,690,441Just because something doesn't work doesn't mean we need to stop it.
-- NWO
But much better if everyone lowers their own immune system via Vit-D, much less work that way...
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- Re: Vitamin D appears to be 800% mor... johng
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MoreThis is a reply to # 1,690,411that 800% figure clearly meant to grab headlines. no one will catch the trick, but the number 800% will clearly stick.
- Re: Vitamin D appears to be 800% mor... Newport
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This is a reply to # 1,690,4931986;8(5):295-306.
1,25-Dihydroxyvitamin D3 (calcitriol) suppresses IL-2 induced murine thymocyte proliferation.
Haq AU.
Abstract
1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D3 (Calcitriol) inhibits mitogen stimulated T cell proliferation by blocking the production of Interleukin-2 (IL-2). The present study was initiated to determine whether the action of calcitriol was limited only to inhibition of IL-2 production, or if it influenced other events as well. To avoid the use of lectins, thymocytes from CD-I Swiss mice were chosen, which proliferate in response to Interleukin-I (IL-I) or IL-2 without the addition of lectins. Calcitriol inhibited (80-90%) IL-I induced CD-I mouse thymocyte proliferation, whereas 25-OH-D3 was ineffective. Further addition of IL-I failed to overcome this suppression. Surprisingly, calcitriol also inhibited IL-2 induced thymocyte proliferation (60-80%). Further addition of IL-2, in the presence of calcitriol, was ineffective in enhancing thymocyte proliferation. Similar results were obtained with C57BL/10 mouse thymocytes. Additional studies excluded the possibilities that calcitriol mediated inhibition was due to calcitriol IL-2 binding or damage to thymocytes by calcitriol. Thus, calcitriol not only blocks IL-2 production, but these results strongly suggest, that it also interferes with IL-2-thymocyte interaction, which in turn results in inhibition of thymocyte proliferation.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3492067
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thymocyte
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- Re: Vitamin D appears to be 800% mor... Dquixote1217
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This is a reply to # 1,690,516Should I point out, yet again, in response to your multiple posts of this study that, in addition to it being almost 25 years old, it was conducted on mice, who are nocturnal non-human creatures who have different mechanisms than humans for producing vitamin D, different pathways and different receptors than do humans?
I am tempted to report you to the SPCA.
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This is a reply to # 1,690,755DQ- there is no end to the number of studies I could post that show that vit d(3) is immunosuppressive. suprised that you even want to go there... whether you think that is a good thing or bad thing (immunosuppression) depends entirely upon your point of view. I am trying to rebuild my immune system, not suppress it. I believe that that an "overactive" immune system is not deranged, just trying to kill something that needs to be killed but can't quite be reached. turning off the immune system by taking d(3) to feel better is not a good idea... in my humble opinion:
1994 Feb;42(2):163-72.
[Vitamin D and the immune system]
[Article in French]
Thomasset M.
Inserm U 120, Alliée CNRS, Hôpital Robert Debré, Paris, France.
Abstract
There is now increasing evidence that the hormonal form of vitamin D, 1,25(OH)2D3, is involved in the regulation of the immune system. Local production of the hormone in various infectious diseases can benefit the immune environment. 1,25(OH)2D3 exerts most of its actions only after it has bound to its specific nuclear receptor. These receptors are present in monocytes and activated lymphocytes. The hormone inhibits lymphocyte proliferation and immunoglobulin production in a dose-dependent fashion. It also blocks the accumulation of the mRNAs for IL-2, IFN-gamma and GM-CSF. It interferes with T helper cell (Th) function, reducing Th-induction of immunoglobulin production by B-cells and inhibits the passive transfer of cellular immunity by Th in vivo. The steroid hormone promotes suppressor cell activity and inhibits the generation of cytotoxic and NK cells. The expression of Class II antigen by lymphocytes and monocytes is also affected. In vivo, 1,25(OH)2D3 is particularly effective in preventing auto-immune diseases such as experimental auto-immune encephalomyelitis, murine lupus, and diabetes in NOD mice. Synthetic analogues of vitamin D3 that bind to receptors but have no hypercalcemic effect in vivo have recently been developed for therapeutic use.
1995 Jun;53(1-6):599-602.
Immunomodulatory actions of 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D3.
Lemire JM.
Department of Pediatrics, University of California, San Diego, La Jolla 92093-0609, USA.
Abstract
The sterol, 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D3 (1,25(OH)2D3), has immunosuppressive activity. The hormone inhibits the production of lymphokines (IL-2, IFN-gamma) and monocyte-derived cytokine (IL-12) leading to inhibition of helper T cell subset type 1 (Th1). When given in vivo, the hormone prevents the development of spontaneous and induced models of autoimmunity. Analogs of 1,25(OH)2D3, with reduced hypercalcemic effects, display an enhanced activity in autoimmunity compared to the sterol and prolong graft survival in experimental transplantation. This paper reviews our understanding of the cellular actions of the hormone and the therapeutic application of 1,25(OH)2D3 and analogs in autoimmunity and transplantation.
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It appears that there is indeed no end of studies you already have posted, many of which are 15 or more years old and many of which were conducted on mice, which points to immuno-suppression by vitamin D. Once again, the above study talks about the benefits of viamin D in preventing dangerous autoimmune response:
"When given in vivo, the hormone prevents the development of spontaneous and induced models of autoimmunity."
The studies you post, by and large, do not support the Marshall hypothesis of vitamin D being harmful. Often just the opposite when you look at the context of the studies and the conclusions.
Now, when it comes to posting studies - I promise you that for every study you post which might indicate actual harm from vitamin D when taken in sensible levels, I could post scores and scores of studies showing benefits for vitamin D. Is it not the case, in fact, that one of your and the other vitamin D fringe groups contentionsof harm from vitamin D the overwhelming preponderence of studies and support that are in favor of vitamin D?
Are we to believe that anything that mainstream medicine or science largely supports is automatically a conspiracy to harm us? You know, the overwhelming preponderance of evidence and support of medical science also tells us of the benefits of water and oxygen. Should we therefore try to limit or avoid those items too?
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This is a reply to # 1,690,923DQ- the studies I post show a specif suppressive action on dendric cells and t-cells. people can spin whether that is good or bad until the end of time. my point is, better to understand that vit d supplements do this, than be blissfully ignorant of the true mode of action.- Re: Vitamin D appears to be 800% mor... Dquixote1217
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This is a reply to # 1,690,926
I agree that knowing the mechanisms is important and I likewise agree that there is reason for caution when supplementing with very large amounts of vitamin D3. However, MY POINT is that when one does not get vitamin D from natural sunshine or perhaps fish oil, in the vast majority of people they would be far better off to use supplemental vitamin D3 than to allow themselves to become vitamin D deficient. To say otherwise is advice that is not only wrong, but potentially harmful for most people.
I will also point out that, vitamin D3 is indeed produced via a chemical process, the process alters lanolin from sheep's wool into vitamin D3. To me, while not preferable in any way to natural vitamin D3, that hardly sounds as Franensteinish as other lab created compounds.
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DQ- I must respectfully disagree, and there we probably have to leave it. In time, this issue will be sorted out. For now, I am happy to accept that my opinion is int he minority, waiting for more meaningful studies to clear this up. But also want to make one final point in response to your suggestion that my studies are somehow outdated or deal only with animals. this study is brand new, and makes many of the same points of you read between the lines:
Exp Biol Med (Maywood). 2010 Aug;235(8):921-7.
Vitamin D and host resistance to infection? Putting the cart in front of the horse.
Bruce D, Ooi JH, Yu S, Cantorna MT.
Department of Veterinary and Biomedical Science, Center for Molecular Immunology and Infectious Disease, The Pennsylvania State University, University Park, 16802, USA.
Abstract
Vitamin D is being touted as an anti-infective agent and it has even been suggested that vitamin D supplementation could be effective against the H1N1 influenza virus. The claims are largely based on the ability of vitamin D to induce antibacterial peptides and evidence that the immune system produces active vitamin D (1,25(OH)(2)D(3)) in situ. While there are many examples of immune production of 1,25(OH)(2)D(3) in vitro, there is little in vivo evidence. In addition, it is not clear what role immune production of 1,25(OH)(2)D(3) has on the course of disease. Vitamin D and 1,25(OH)(2)D(3) inhibit T helper type 1 (Th1)/Th17-mediated immune responses and autoimmune diseases by acting on the innate and acquired immune system to inhibit the function of Th1 and Th17 cells. Th1 and Th17 cells are important in host resistance to many infections including tuberculosis (TB) caused by Mycobacterium tuberculosis. Paradoxically the innate immune system is induced to produce antibacterial peptides that are effective against TB in vitro. Data from several models of infection have so far not supported a role for vitamin D in affecting the course of disease. There is also very little evidence that vitamin D affects the course of human TB infection. Experiments have not been done in cells, mice or humans to evaluate the effect of vitamin D on influenza virus. At this time it would be premature to claim that vitamin D has an effect on TB, influenza or any other infection.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?cmd=HistorySearch&querykey=20
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This is a reply to # 1,690,938
In essence the study merely says that "we don't know" and that further study is needed. Not exactly a condemnation of Vitamin D3.
Is your advice to people who are unable or unwilling to get adequate vitamin D from sunlight or sources such as fish oil to not taken supplemental vitamin D3 in any amounts? If such is the case, it is my very strong opinion that your advice will be harmful in far more instances than those where it might be beneficial.
OK, let's cut to the chase.
My advice is to get your vitamin D as much as possible from the sun, and secondarily when needed from natural sources such as fish oil, and then in lieu of getting adequate vitamin D from those sources for whatever reason, that it is best to supplement with reasonable amounts of vitamin D3 rather than becoming deficient in vitamin D.
Perhaps an overlooked point here is that when we limit our debate to only the pros and cons of Vitamin D3 supplementation, it may appear that I on the vitamin D3 bandwagon that would have us believe that most of our health issues can be remedied or avoided simply by taking supplemental vitamin D3. Let me make it absolutely clear that I'm decidedly not on that bandwagon, and in that sense you and I may very likely agree that giving people the perception that all they have to do is load up with D3 and all will be fine is not a healthy message.
Trying to fix yourself or fortify yourself with a single supplement while neglecting to address your overall health needs is not what I recommend in any instance - that is just chasing a cure in a bottle the same as people try to find cures in mainstream drugs.
Rather, it is my recommendation that people make sure that they live and eat healthily and get optimum amounts of essential nutritional items on a regular basis (and as much as possible from nutrient dense foods and then food derived sources). People who do that are not likely to have a problem with any immune suppression issues from reasonable amounts of vitamin D3 regardless of how it works.
Anyway, 'nuff debate. I have articles to write, website pages to update, books to finish and much, much more. Maybe even a nap . . . .
- Re: Maybe this will clear things up ... johng
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This is a reply to # 1,690,982DQ- I think the study actually says more. It points out that d(3) suppresses parts of the immune system. An extremely important point. In light of this suppression, the author questions whether, in the body, supplementing with vit d is a good might actually backfire. He then goes on to note that all the studies hyping vit d supplements as being effective against pathogens are not well designed and don't actually support the conclusion. fairly noteable.
cutting to the chase, I think the overlooked point that must be considered is that the perceived vit d deficiency that is touted daily in the newspapers suspicious. first, there are some studies that suggest that vit d levels vary genetically... that the standard set by mainstream medicine is not accurate, natural or even meaningful. I will dig those out later. the second issue is that, assuming that vitamin d blood levels are actually lower now than 1000 years ago, which is suspect, the low levels might just be the result of disease, not the cause of disease. a very important point that is consistently ignored. the issue here is that supplementing with vit d will not correct disease, and in fact, may make it worse.
these issues deserve attention, and should not be shoved aside by popping pills, while we merrily go on our way ignoring what really is necessary to be healthy. I think we all agree on that.
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- Re: Maybe this will clear things up ... trapper/kcmo
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This is a reply to # 1,690,989i am wondering how this whole conversation relates to the statement that MH makes about the sickest people being ones who never get sick? he says they cannot mount any kind of defense as the reason for being "symptom free." i agree with this a lot. there are too many indications of long term infections and disease in people due to stealth pathogens and the plethora of nasty chemicals, harmful minerals and deficiencies in diet.
Noah is one of my new teachers. he gets along fine, never colicky, only spits up from overeating, etc. once in a while he will sneeze. he has even done a couple of those double whammy sneezes. this happens when i first come in from outside and hold him or when he is exposed to someone with lots of foo-foo crap on. this first line of defense is seen as the disease itself by most people - a symptom of a cold. what utter horse crap. its a sign his immune system is working. he will acclimate to these things and soon wont exhibit these symptoms. the biochemical corruption of my grandson has already begun. its in the air and there is not a damn thing i can do about it except move out of this petrochemical wasteland called dallas, texas.- Re: Maybe this will clear things up ... Newport
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RR
This is a reply to # 1,691,004>> sickest people being ones who never get sick?
One of the phases of BioW Lyme is invincibility. Most get several years of wondering why others get sick all the time while they appear 'immune'.
It is high time people separate the pathogen from the immune reaction. A lack of immune reaction or for that matter a lack of antibodies is NOT a sign of health.
>>
a symptom of a cold. what utter horse crap. its a sign his immune system is working.
<<
Correct, but a flu shot will eliminate all those nasty signs and keep you working.
An example is the H1N? group, the flu is nothing, it is the toxin left behind that will cause DNA alterations:
http://curezone.com/blogs/fm.asp?i=1584918#i
long term symptomatology
GELSEMIUM SEMPERVIRENS
http://homeoint.org/books/boericmm/g/gels.htm
- Re: Maybe this will clear things up ... johng
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Well Newport pretty much painted the picture... but what happens is that a body that is too weak to mount a defense won't show symptoms of an infection. the body just works around the issue. people are carrying loads of pathogens but are oblivious. some would say this is nature's balence, and maybe insome cases it is... but, this is not the same thing as true health. it is accomadation. when you start to get healthy again, you herx like mad.- Re: Maybe this will clear things up ... trapper/kcmo
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This is a reply to # 1,691,030and thats when most people quit because they dont understand and think they are harming themselves. happens all the time, i am sure. i mean, doctors are all about running to them at the first sign of anything because ignoring a symptom can lead to SUDDEN AND SURE PERMANENT(most death is) AND PREVENTABLE(only with a certified MD, of course) DEATH!!!!!!!!
uh-huh(yawn.........)
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