Kill the bad ones, Save the good one... 
powertool4
15 y
30,420
† Cross †
Alrigghtttyyy, so my results from Genova came back for my EVERYTHING test (stool, urine and blood) and it shows something very interesting. I thought i had candida but the test shows no yeast cultures and my stool never shows any candida or yeasts coming out but i did have Klebsiella Pneumoniae 4+ which is the highest, and my Bifidobacterium is a 3+. Not bad considering my stomch and gut issues were pretty bad so i was expecting worse. My ND says that the Klebsiella can or cannot be bad depending on the person and whether or not they show symptoms.. but for me, YES, i am showing symptoms. I have also read that Bifido bacteria is EXTREMELY important for gut health and it says 4+ is what it should be at, so i am lacking on that.
So how do I get rid of this Klebsiella and raise my bifido without straining my liver or taking Antibiotics or something harmful?
I am currently taking Jarrow 3.4 billion (1 a day) but it hasn't really helped too much with my small intestine and urinary issues so i am thinking of moving over the Culturelle LGG and a Bifido supplement WITHOUT FOS. I have been taking FOS like an idiot and apparently Klebsiella grows on FOS like no other... I have read Nightriders post about substituting FOS with arabogalactan which i will do using Glyconutrients.
Any advice on how to contain this bacteria is greatly appreciated!
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- Re: Kill the bad ones, Save the good... nonmoi
15 y
29,971
This is a reply to # 1,510,946Advertisement
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Hello Power,
Am currently in the same quandary; looking for some form of natural Antibiotics to eradicate a bacterial overgrowth in my gut.
I had terrible burning in the gut for over two weeks, acidity in the stomach, nausea.
Chinese doctor told me yesterday it was a bacterial infection in the colon (he explained the ratio good/bad bacteria!). The rest is fermentation in the stomach due to that infection.
Now I still have candida big time; but strangely enough, when my gut is burning like crazy, seems like candida symptoms go down.
I take the herbs, but I would much prefer to find a natural Antibiotics with which to treat this.
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- Re: Kill the bad ones, Save the good... Hveragerthi
15 y
30,030
This is a reply to # 1,510,946Yes, Klebsiella is an opportunistic microbe that naturally inhabits our intestines. Opportunistic microbes get their name from the fact that they take hold when the immune system is sufficiently suppressed.
I have several suggestions. First I would focus on getting the flora back up with kefir and either rice bran or oat bran. On the kefir you can make your own with various Sugar sources such as juices, coconut milk, soy milk, rice milk, etc. But let it ferment long enough to use up most if not all the Sugar in the kefir before taking it. I recommend a glass first thing in the morning and aone at night before bed. The brans are food sources for the flora and are used by the flora in the formation of acids that control Candida and pathogneic bacteria in the intestines and some other areas of the body. The beneficial flora also produce bacteriocides, peroxides and compete for food and space to control pathogenic bacteria.
My other suggestion would be to take a 1/2 teaspoon of yucca root 3 times daily before meals. Yucca root has some antibacterial properties, but it also helps to build up the beneficial flora, reduces intestinal inflammation, and will help the bacteriocides to do a better job of killing the pathogenic bacteria.
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- Re: Kill the bad ones, Save the good... powertool4
15 y
29,895
This is a reply to # 1,511,122Kefir, in other words, would be "homemade yogurt" right? My parents, coincidentally.. have been making "homemade yogurt" in which they pour milk into a glass, and place a very rare Tibet mushroom inside and let it ferment at room temperature for 24 hours. And then it is apparently good to drink for good bacteria. Is that anything like the kefir you are thinking about?
Also, is the oat gran anything like FOS? Will it feed the Klebsiella as well as the good bacteria? How does it isolate?
And yucca root, I will try and get that somewhere. I am curious though, you mentioned antibacterial properties.. would aloe vera (without the laxative ingredients) work as the same? I only ask because I might recall someone saying that it is somewhat similar (might be mistaken).
Regarding probiotics.. what do you think of Natren healthy trinity? I have been taking jarrow but apparently FOS is a big no no for Klebsiella.Advertisement
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- Re: Kill the bad ones, Save the good... powertool4
15 y
29,761
This is a reply to # 1,511,128I just realized Kefir IS probiotics.
So if I use Kefir, there is no need for probiotics? Or are good flora something you can never have too much of?- Re: Kill the bad ones, Save the good... Hveragerthi
15 y
30,124
This is a reply to # 1,511,129
I just realized Kefir IS probiotics.
So if I use Kefir, there is no need for probiotics? Or are good flora something you can never have too much of?Right, the kefir is a probiotic and the brans are prebiotics that feed the probiotics.
I prefer kefir because most probiotic supplements will only contain one or a few beneficial bacterial strains, and the viability of some products is questionable. If you make your own kefir then you know it is viable and the kefir provides a broad range of different strains of beneficial bacteria.
You really cannot overdose on the good bacteria as much of it is lost in the stool, while the remaining bacteria will feed on the fibers and replenish our supply given the proper food and terrain.
- Re: Kill the bad ones, Save the good... Hveragerthi
15 y
30,124
- Re: Kill the bad ones, Save the good... Hveragerthi
15 y
29,947
This is a reply to # 1,511,128
Kefir, in other words, would be "homemade yogurt" right? My parents, coincidentally.. have been making "homemade yogurt" in which they pour milk into a glass, and place a very rare Tibet mushroom inside and let it ferment at room temperature for 24 hours. And then it is apparently good to drink for good bacteria. Is that anything like the kefir you are thinking about?
Kefir is actually stronger than yogurt. Although I think the "Tibetian mushroom" is another name for kefir grains. I would let it ferment longer than 24 hours though. The more it ferments the more of the sugar is used up and the more beneficial acids that are produced. If you let it ferment long enough it will for a "cheese", which can still be eaten for the benefits.
Also, is the oat gran anything like FOS? Will it feed the Klebsiella as well as the good bacteria? How does it isolate?Brans are a longer chain sugar molecule than FOS. Brans also provide vitamins and silica, which FOS does not. I doubt the brans will feed the Klebsiella, but either way you need fibers to feed your flora. This is their primary food source. And these benefical flora are what help prevent pathogen overgrowth in the intestines.
And yucca root, I will try and get that somewhere. I am curious though, you mentioned antibacterial properties.. would aloe vera (without the laxative ingredients) work as the same? I only ask because I might recall someone saying that it is somewhat similar (might be mistaken).The anthraquinones found in the thin yellow layer of the aloe leaf are antiseptic, but they are also stimulant laxatives. These can weaken the intestinal muscles causing a laxative dependence after a few weeks. A lot of yucca's ability to kill pathogens comes from the sterols in the plant that bind to cholesterol in cell membranes of pathogens.
Regarding probiotics.. what do you think of Natren healthy trinity? I have been taking jarrow but apparently FOS is a big no no for Klebsiella.I have never looked in to Natren's product. I have focused on kefir more due to the wide variety of beneficial bacteria and the very low cost.
- Re: Kill the bad ones, Save the good... Ladywear
15 y
29,762
This is a reply to # 1,511,157Advertisement
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Hveragerthi you mention kefir as being the best way to get good flora levels up. I cant tolerate anything fermented it makes me feel absolutely awful and ill. What else can I do - I note you said probiotics are questionable. Is there anything else I can do? I dont tolerate rice bran or oats either which would be ideal for feeding my good flora - can you recommend anything else? thank you- Re: Kill the bad ones, Save the good... Hveragerthi
15 y
30,746
This is a reply to # 1,511,191
Hveragerthi you mention kefir as being the best way to get good flora levels up. I cant tolerate anything fermented it makes me feel absolutely awful and ill. What else can I do - I note you said probiotics are questionable. Is there anything else I can do? I dont tolerate rice bran or oats either which would be ideal for feeding my good flora - can you recommend anything else? thank you
I am not sure what problems you experience with the fermented products. But if it is bloating then this means that there is too much sugar still left in the product. Fermenting it longer will get rid of the sugar.
A second option is to go to the grocery store in the produce section and buy some yucca root. If you check the internet you can find recipes for preparation as a food. Anyway, yucca is fiber rich to feed the flora and it is also high in saponins. Saponins not only fight yeast, but they are also surfactants so they will help prevent the fermentation that causes the bloating. Stores also sell nopales (prickly pear) cactus, which is also fiber rich and like yucca root will not only feed the flora but will also hold moisture in the intestines to help the flora to flourish. Nopales also helps to reduce glucose levels, which will also slow down Candida growth. Again you can find various preparation methods on the internet including nopales salsas.
- Re: Kill the bad ones, Save the good... Ladywear
15 y
29,680
This is a reply to # 1,511,215Thanks for your reply. No my response to fermented foods is not bloating its more like a drunk feeling like when I have accidently eaten something with yeast or Sugar in. I feel like I cant think straight!
I will certainly look for those yucca roots I really havent noticed those for sale here in UK nor the prickly pear but I can ask around.- Re: Kill the bad ones, Save the good... Hveragerthi
15 y
29,901
This is a reply to # 1,511,366
Thanks for your reply. No my response to fermented foods is not bloating its more like a drunk feeling like when I have accidently eaten something with yeast or sugar in. I feel like I cant think straight!
Fermentation of sugars will also generate some alcohol.
I will certainly look for those yucca roots I really havent noticed those for sale here in UK nor the prickly pear but I can ask around.I did not realize you were in the UK. You will likely have trouble finding both as these are both desert plants and they are not likely to be exported overseas. Both can be found from herbal suppliers in powder form though, which is another option. The prickly pear will be under the name nopales.
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- Re: Kill the bad ones, Save the good... Hveragerthi
15 y
29,901
- Re: Kill the bad ones, Save the good... Ladywear
15 y
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- Re: Kill the bad ones, Save the good... Hveragerthi
15 y
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- Re: Kill the bad ones, Save the good... Ladywear
15 y
29,762
- Re: Kill the bad ones, Save the good... powertool4
15 y
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- Re: Kill the bad ones, Save the good... powertool4
15 y
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- Re: Kill the bad ones, Save the good... Cheshire77
15 y
29,977
This is a reply to # 1,510,946Lactoferrin kills Klebsiella yet stimulates Bifidobacteria. It also kills lots of other bad bacteria and candida. Unlike most antimicrobials, lactoferrin does not kill good bacteria. How is this possible? Because lactoferrin is part of the body's natural immune defense against infection.
http://intelegen.com/ImmuneSystem/lactoferrin.htm
- Cheschire nonmoi
15 y
29,603
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This is a reply to # 1,511,725Hello,
Excellent info. I just ordered some lactoferrin. Have you been using it also? Could you tell what is your experience?
Could you tell also the dosage to take? The bottle I ordered is 250mg.
Love,
Non-Moi- Re: Cheschire Cheshire77
15 y
29,814
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This is a reply to # 1,512,051No I haven't used it. It is on my list of things try. However I know someone who said it helped her.
Here are some more links for Lactoferrin. Research ha been done into both human and bovine (cow) lactoferrin. Most commercial lactoferrin is bovine, which is fine bcause it seems to be at least as good as human lactoferrin in fighting pathogens. There are two main types of bovine lactoferrin, of which, the iron-free form (apo-lactoferrin) seems to be best at killing pathogens.
One source said "An adequate and cost effective dose of lactoferrin for the adjunctive treatment of disease is estimated to be 300 mg a day".
http://www.alternativehealth.com.au/Product/lactoferrin.htm
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=Yp44IzX8hVAC&pg=PA188&lpg=PA188&dq=lactof...
http://www.find-health-articles.com/rec_pub_8141667-the-fungicidal-effect-hum...
http://www.scialert.net/qredirect.php?doi=pjbs.2009.91.94&linkid=pdf
http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2000/oct2000_report_lactoferrin.html
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=15806330
http://www.springerlink.com/content/x1uw0712664h0764/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactoferrin
http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Supplements/Item00513/Lactoferrin-apolactoferrin-...
http://feeds2.feedburner.com/aismax
http://intelegen.com/ImmuneSystem/lactoferrin.htm
When you've read the above you will know everything I know about lactoferrin. Let me know how you go. - Re: Cheschire Cheshire77
15 y
29,641
This is a reply to # 1,512,051Advertisement
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Thank you NonMoi (not me?),
You have brought my focus back onto lactoferrin. It's funny how one can research a supplement, get excited about it enough to make notes, but due to circumstances, put it on the sideboard where it collects dust.
Well, after reviewing the links I sent you, I popped a capsule containing 300mg apo-lactoferrin. Unless it causes side effects, I intend to take this supplement on an on-going basis. It is just one of those healthy no-brainer supplements to take. It may not cure cancer (but it might!), but it will help maintain bowel health and it will do no harm. I can't think of a reason not to take it.
Hope it works for both of us. :)- Re: Cheschire powertool4
15 y
29,626
This is a reply to # 1,512,354hey cheschire,
how is the lactoferrin working out for you? i am thinking about supplementing that along with my probiotics/kefir to help with the klebsiella overgrowth. are there any side effects? what is the difference between apo-lactoferrin? I saw one made by Jarrow that I might try out.
Thanks!
ps i read those articles and you have me sold, but i still would like to hear some personal opinions or testimonies. :)- Re: Cheschire Cheshire77
15 y
29,827
This is a reply to # 1,512,831Too early in my apo-Lactoferrin trial to say anything meaningful, but since you asked ...
The first day I didn't notice anything.
The second day (yesterday) my brain fog was a little worse.
This morning I can hardly walk the dizziness is so strong.
My early thoughts are Lactoferrin has a somewhat delayed killing process, and now on the 3rd day I am experiencing significant die-off. Can't really say more than that at this stage.- Re: Cheschire powertool4
15 y
30,027
This is a reply to # 1,513,108Thanks for the update. Yeah 3 days is a bit early to tell, especially with the possible die off. Let us know how it goes after a while though I am interested in trying it out myself.
I also looked up colostrum (which has lactoferrin in it) as apparently is is extremely important for immune system and there are people taking it as a preventative measure against swine flu this season.. sounds interesting.- Re: Cheschire Woba
9 y
14,052
This is a reply to # 1,513,361Advertisement
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How are you doing now? I've just discovered this website while researching what I can do about my own Klebsiella pneumoniae overgrowth (4+ per a Doctors Data comprehensive stool analysis). Preliminary results of this test revealed Giardiasis, which I treated with metronidazole. My functional medicine doc wants me to now take another antibiotic to kill the Klebsiella, but I don't want more antibiotics. The inflammation markers on the stool test shows my lactoferrin and calprotectin outside the normal range - 33.8 for lactoferrin and 69 for calprotectin. After reading the other posts, doesn't this mean my body is attempting to fight it? Blood work also showed considerable inflammation (Fibrinogen: 646, hs-CRP: 15.9, MPO: 374) and the urinalysis (NutrEval) showed serious malabsorption and bacterial dysbiosis markers, high toxin and detoxification markers and other signs/results of the malabsorption due to the giardiasis. I think I may have been carrying it awhile. However, biggest concern now is what appears to be AS (ankylosing spondylitis), which appeared rather suddenly about 3-1/2 months ago. It began with sore groin tendons then hips and thighs, then it slowly moved up my back and my shoulders, and upper arms are extremely sore. Also now my knees, especially behind the knees. AS and Klebsiella go together it seems so eradicating the Klebsiella seems to be Step One. I'm just beginning a serious course of action and it will consist of a low carb diet (Klebsiella thrives on starch), black garlic supplements, olive leaf, GI Microb-X (from my dr.), high dose probiotics, aloe (Herbal Aloe Force), Ubiquinol, NAC and others (taken to try and bring my levels back up post giardiasis). If anyone has any experience or suggestions in dealing with either Klebsiella or AS, please let me know. Thanks! 09.11.15- Re: Cheschire rupertluxton
7 y
7,549
This is a reply to # 2,275,680how did you go with getting your klebsiella levels back to normal? I have an overgrowth of it also. abdominal bloating is my main symptom. what are yours
- Re: Cheschire Monocuco
7 y
7,173
This is a reply to # 2,373,692Hello,
I ave +3 Klebsiella. I tried herbals and did nothing I´m underweight and have a lot of gas. I have also Yeast - Trichosporon.
I am begining to take some Antibiotics . For the first 7 days I took norfloxacin and after felt more bloated. Now Im taking Doxyxycline and feel less gas and almost normal, but I don't know if this is going to be ok afterward
Please share with me your battles.
- Re: Cheschire
- Re: Cheschire rupertluxton
7 y
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- Re: Cheschire Woba
9 y
14,052
- Re: Cheschire powertool4
15 y
30,027
- Re: Cheschire Cheshire77
15 y
29,827
- Re: Cheschire powertool4
15 y
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- Re: Cheschire Cheshire77
15 y
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- Cheschire nonmoi
15 y
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- Re: Kill the bad ones, Save the good... VX
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This is a reply to # 1,510,946My personal opinion is that you should follow the advise of whoever diagnosed you. Follow their advice for 2 months, if it works (at least a little), great, if not try something else.
I've had bad bacterial infections in the past, not chronic but very severe. And Candida of course which can be crippling if not controlled.
I've always considered bacteria problems can be most easily controlled by parasite cleansing and liver flushing. Zapping might also be good if you particularily have problems with bacteria.
http://www.humaworm.com
or Barefoor for parasite cleansing
http://zap.intergate.ca/index.html
for the zapper
Clark Liver Flush with modifications for liver flushing
I think there are several ways to control bacterial infections (and Candida), but most of them involve "getting healthy". There are some good suggestions in other posts here, the best thing to do is to try one of them (or your doctor's suggestions) and run with it for 1-2 months.
- Re: Kill the bad ones, Save the good... Elque
10 y
20,641
This is a reply to # 1,510,946Advertisement
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I also have Klebsiella and lots of gut type and other symptoms. I have recently bought a Hulda Clark zapper. You can programme it to the specific frequencies that target the specific microbes/ parasites you want to get rid of. As I haven't yet done the treatment I can't tell you how effective it is, but apparently it has helped many people with conditions like this. - Natural Agents to control bad bacter... HankW
7 y
8,177
This is a reply to # 1,510,946I have had the Genova digestive analysis as well. For some (not all) of the 'bad bacteria' found -- incl Klebsiella -- Bacterial Sensitivity analyses have been provided. Did you not receive this with your results?
The bad bacteria's response to both pharmaceuticals and natural agents is shown. The Klebsiella in my gut was found to be "Susceptible" to 5 of 6 Antibiotics . Four Natural Agents were tested for the level of inhibition each have on the growth of the bacteria. My test looked at Berberine, Oregano, Tannins and Uva-Ursi. In my case, all natural agents are at a high-medium level of effectiveness. (So I have started taking berberine and uvi-ursi.)
But I have spent many hours trying to figure out what to do beyond this intervention -- should I take probiotics, too? Prebiotics? But will prebiotics help the bad bacteria to grow? Do I have Leaky Gut? should I eat sauerkraut an other fermented foods? My specialists told me to go on a Paleo-Keto diet to starve out the bad bacteria.
The list is endless in terms of recommendations to correct the dysfunction. It gets the the point where i am paralysed with inaction.
But I did want to pass on the info re the Natural Agents as I don't think anyone else has mentioned these.- Re: Natural Agents to control bad ba... #222459
7 y
7,589
This is a reply to # 2,372,006What symptom(s) do you have? Prebiotics can be fuel for Klebsiella so you might want to delay those depending on the symptoms you have when consuming them. I had a moderate reading of Klebsiella on my stool analysis as well. I currently take a probiotic (as advised by my naturopath) and don't seem to have any symptoms from that, but no improvement either. Even taking Uva Ursi hasn't seemed to make any improvement for me so far. I'm looking towards a biofilm as being a potential source of the problem. You may have that in your case as well. I'd imagine it's somewhat of a shot in the dark for both you and I (as we haven't been able to get tested to see if we have biofilms if there is such a test) but we can certainly try bacterial/ biofilm disrupting foods such as garlic, cranberry, clove, certain herbs. Failing that, one might consider trying lactoferrin or lyszosyme to disrupt biofilms.
- Re: Natural Agents to control bad ba... Monocuco
7 y
6,687
This is a reply to # 2,374,231Advertisement
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Hello,
I have Klebsiella too. And Some Yeast. Definetly they hide behind biofilms.
Tried herbals and did not work. Now Im trying Antibiotics and praying a lot.
I am interested in a support group that shares the same enemy.
Please write and share.
- Re: Natural Agents to control bad ba... Monocuco
7 y
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- Re: Natural Agents to control bad ba... #222459
7 y
7,589
- Re: Kill the bad ones, Save the good... Monocuco
7 y
6,645
This is a reply to # 1,510,946Hello,
I have Klebsiella can you share your experience.
I´m taking Antibiotics now, and want to share experiences
- Re: Kill the bad ones, Save the good... #222459
7 y
6,409
This is a reply to # 2,382,116Hey. Thanks for the message. What test did you take to indicate you have klebsiella? Also, what are your symptoms? I expected my stool analysis (through Doctor's Data) to show a much worse profile, but the only dysbiotic species was klebsiella as +3 (moderate overgrowth. I'm about 100 pounds overweight and am always hungry (even after large meals), have multiple food allergies and a skin rash and itch in response to those allergens. I tried taking lactoferrin and I'm not sure if it helped but a couple of my allergies seemed to diminish during that time. I also got extreme mid-afternoon fatigue only on the days I was taking lactoferrin for some reason.
- Re: Kill the bad ones, Save the good... #222459
7 y
6,409
- Re: Kill the bad ones, Save the good... nonmoi
15 y
29,971
