herbs for calming associative storms... 
spudlydoo
15 y
2,715
Hv, I'm currently looking into herbs or natural therapies that can help with the sometimes debilitating "associative storms" that I have. Associative storms are what I call the inability to stop a run of certain thoughts and actions, triggered by an outside source (words,noises,smells etc), this can be debilitating if it happens at work, or in a conversation with someone that doesn't know me well. When the trigger sets off these thoughts, (sometimes verbalisations), my mind calls up every bit of information on whatever subject the trigger is associated with. Usually this is quick and I just let it happen, but sometimes it can tie up my mind for minutes at a time, and people think I'm cracked. I have tried behavioural therapies, such as trying to distract myself, or even physically moving away from the trigger, but nothing seems to help.
Any ideas would be appreciated :)
P.S Molly Bloom , do you have any insight into this ?, would be interested to hear if you have seen this behaviour, and have any ideas (or maybe your husband or son do) in what I can do with this problem.
spud
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- Re: herbs for calming associative st... Molly Bloom
15 y
2,742
This is a reply to # 1,481,924My son has this problem with certain noises. My husband has racing thoughts.
I am trying the DPLA with my husband, and had him taking 3,000 mg a day. This has been going on for about 3 days, and yesterday he was really nauseous in the morning. I read that it could be a side effect. So we decided to cut back to 1,500 mg a day.
This stuff has done wonders for me, so we are experimenting with the hubby. Before we knew he had AS, he was on Prozac for almost a decade. He has a real mind body disconnect (do you have that?).
We are giving this a go.....
Molly
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- Re: herbs for calming associative st... spudlydoo
15 y
2,436
MoreThis is a reply to # 1,481,962I have tried DPLA but to little effect, and it also made me feel nauseous. I don't get racing thoughts so much as just these episodes of not being able to control my mind making associations in response to triggers, with me its often words. Does your son feel he needs to verbalise his thoughts, or does he just blank out (this is how my partner describes what happens to me from his point of view). Sometimes I get very caught up in these associations and find it hard to be aware of whats going on around me. I'm not sure if this is what you mean by a mind/body dissconnect.
These storms are not dangerous or damaging to my health, just annoying, to me and others. I wondered if there was something that can be done, or if any other Aspies have any tricks to stop them. They do occur more often if I'm nervous or stressed, so maybe I need to look at herbs that deal with lessening stress.
Thanks for you insight Molly, its most appreciated :)
spud- Re: herbs for calming associative st... GrannyCat
15 y
2,921
This is a reply to # 1,481,978
What about Ashwagandha?
"Numerous modern studies have found that ashwagandha is very effective in reducing inflammation, treating tumors, decreasing stress, increasing mental activity, invigorating the body, and as an antioxidant. Researchers at the University of Texas Health Science Center also looked at the effects of ashwagandha. They found that extracts of the shrub had activity that was similar to GABA, which could explain why the plant is effective in reducing anxiety."I realize what you're talking about is much more than simple stress or anxiety, but I thought perhaps starting with something that is a basic stress/anxiety releiver might be a good start?
- Re: herbs for calming associative st... spudlydoo
15 y
2,508
This is a reply to # 1,481,980thanks mama, I have been thinking about trying this herb for a while now. Have you tried it yourself? What were its effects for you?.
spud
- Re: herbs for calming associative st... spudlydoo
15 y
2,508
- Re: herbs for calming associative st... Molly Bloom
15 y
2,459
This is a reply to # 1,481,978How much were you taking when you got nauseous?
He had been taking one a day for over a month (500mg). Then he increased to 2 a day for a couple weeks. It was when he started to megadose that he got nauseous, but that took about 3 days to mainfest.
I've read about what you are describing. For our son it was loud noises, and lately it's been electrical lights. He is constantly turning off lights, even when we are sitting in the room. Drives us mad. My son can't tell us why he does this, just that it makes him anxious. Definitely some OCD issues at play here. And no, no one verbalizes their thoughts unless asked around here. Communication is not a big part of our family. The life of living with two AS men.
I have a friend who will be starting a group of support for spouses of Aspergers. She and I met on a forum and are really good friends now. I will ask her to bring this up in her support group and see what the perspective is, or even as a topic to examine. But I believe what you are describing is not at all unusual. Aspergers people are complicated. And the superior intelligence makes it even more confusing for us neurotypicals.
As far as my husband, when I talk about mind/body disconnect, he is hyper out of touch with his body unless his body is going through something intense, like nausea or pain. Other than that I can ask him how his body feels and he has to think about it. I constantly ask him if there are any changes when and if we do any kind of protocol and the answer is always the same...I don't notice anything...
He was dealing with tooth sensitivity when we started to OP. I kept telling him how great my teeth feel. About 4 weeks in I asked him about his tooth sensitivity, and he was like....Oh yea, I didnt' realize it had gone away. He would be the worst candidate for any testing of anyone I know.
But when there is anything going on physically, he gets either in a horrible mood or depressed or both. Personally I think it illicts some kind of emotional response which he would prefer not to have. Highs and lows throw him into a spiral.
He has often described his condition like an out of body experience. He knows he is walking down the street, but he can't feel himself in his body. I think this is the reason that he has had tendencies to sprain his ankles on numerous occassions.
The racing thoughts and negative scripts have been something we've been dealing with for years now. Prozac didn't do squat for him except really turn him into a zombie. And then a couple years in I don't think they did anything at all except cause sexual dysfunction. (ahem)
So we are going to try the DLPA, but truthfully, how the hell am I going to know if these are working? Damn frustrating but the best we can do is try.
Molly
- Re: herbs for calming associative st... #38782
15 y
2,605
This is a reply to # 1,482,009Sorry to hear about this syndrom/sickness.
Was wondering if "grounding exercises" would be helpful. There are any number of simple exercises in Yoga and Chi Gong that I know of that IMHO may make a person more aware of having a body and taking the time to become aware of what the body is feeling.
Also meditating is what "comes to mind"! The key to this is not to identify with the body/mind - and to allow the thoughts to pass by and then focussing one´s thought once again on one´s breath.
Hoping this may help!
- Re: herbs for calming associative st... Molly Bloom
15 y
2,532
This is a reply to # 1,482,020Actually this is a form of autism. It's on the spectrum. We prefer not to call it a sickness, it's a neurological disorder. I say disorder, but at times I feel like people with aspergers are evolved humans as strange as that sounds. Oddly with all the non-human forms of communication our society now participates in, these people have embraced this kind of communication fully. Such was the beginnings of Silicon Valley. That's a whole bunch of aspergers folks coming from all over the world to develop the internet. I live in the SF Bay Area, and since this is often inherited, we have tons and tons of Aspergers resources around here. All those Silicon Valley guys stayed living here and bred. Many of their children have this.
Part of this "disorder" is brilliance. Think Einstein. Bill Gates. And many more in our history. And of course our friend Spud....LOL. The situations that Asperger's people have are often "social". So the next time you meet a very socially ackward yet brilliant person that can't seem to look you in the eye....bingo. We all have known those kind of people.
Thanks for the idea. We have often thought about yoga and associated kind of things. I think meditation would be a very difficult thing for someone like this, but it's worth a try. Overactive racing thoughts might be a difficult nut to crack.
- Re: herbs for calming associative st... Molly Bloom
15 y
2,532
- Re: herbs for calming associative st... spudlydoo
15 y
2,379
This is a reply to # 1,482,009Hi Molly, I got nauseous on a pretty low dose, 300-500mg, so I gave it up. I wasn't making any difference anyway.
I also have a dislike of lights at night, its more that brightly lit rooms really make me feel stressed, I have salt lamps at home because they have a low, soft light. My partner gets a bit annoyed at me with this, as he likes to see what he's doing lol and can't understand why I like the rooms dark. Fluorencent lights are the worst.
Does your husband have a high pain threshold, this is something I've noticed and my partner has noticed as well. Its not really a disconnect, I do know whats going on with my body, but the pain signals don't seem to be as strong as they are with my partner. When I had my last knee reconstruction, the surgeon was trying to get me to take pain killers, and I kept telling him it really didn't hurt that much. He thought I was trying to tough it out or something, but it really wasn't that painfull.
Please do ask your support group about this, as I would welcome any suggestions, (there is no group in my area for adults with aspergers, only a parents group in the next town). I have a friend's wedding coming up in October and I have to be a bridesmaid, I'm a bit worried that this will happen on the day, because of the stress involved, and I would hate to spoil her day in any way.
spud- Re: herbs for calming associative st... Molly Bloom
15 y
2,483
This is a reply to # 1,482,258Wow, your light thing sounds very similar to what my son is dealing with.
Ed has a very low pain threshold. He is blessed not to have too much pain, so when he does have some, he goes into Mr. Hyde-like behavior. I on the other hand had my baby without anything. I got up 1/2 hour after hernia surgery and walked out of the hospital (I threw up in the car however). I often worry that I may be one of those people that simply die and never knew something was wrong.
It's not my support group, I so wish I could join it. It's my girlfriends who is a mental health professional on the other side of the country. Her husband is a physics professor and has Aspergers. She's going to lead a group of 7, all apparently extremely intelligent and dynamic spouses of brilliant aspergers men. I brought up triggers as a discussion topic, and she was all over it. Her group starts tonight, but it will be a meet and greet until they start getting into the meat of the relationships. I know she will bring it up.
Have you gone on the Autism forum? I used to belong to a spouses group on that, and there are plenty of very intelligent aspergers posters on there. Some of them have been using this forum for socialization for years now.
I asked the hubby if he had any triggers that caused him to "check out" and I got the usual standard answer..No. At least I don't think so.....sigh. It's like living with an absent minded professor.
Hang in there Spud. I'm sure the bride already knows you anyway, so you will be protected. If you can manage to just ape all the crazy bridesmaid behaviors, you'll be fine. I know some chick flicks you can watch!! LOL. I'm sure you'll be thinking how damn illogical all this crazy behavior is....hell I just realized how much harder it is for a woman to have this than a guy.
Molly
- Re: herbs for calming associative st... spudlydoo
15 y
2,342
This is a reply to # 1,482,324Wow Molly, you must be an iron woman :). My partner more than makes up for my high pain threshold, he's a complete sooky la la when it comes to pain, or blood, or anything that looks like a needle.
I have briefly looked in on the Autism forum, but probably need to go through the posts from the beginning, seems to be a lot about the causes, vaccines and such. My Dad thinks it has a lot to do with what happened to him in Vietnam, he was badly poisoned with all the chemicals they got sprayed with over there. Many of the children of Vietnam vets have problems, and a great number have various forms of Autism. Could be something in that??
The bride in the wedding I'm attending does know me well, and I know she will understand, but I wish she didn't have to think about it at all. I usually avoid social outings like weddings and such, they are total mine fields for Aspergers people. They are quite frankly frightening for me. lol My acting skills just aren't that great either, I'm really trying to see why everyone else thinks its so wonderful and exciting, I just think its really expensive.
Given a choice I'd rather spend my money on a really good computer with satellite capabilities, or a new telescope.
Ah well, thank you so much for your words,
spud
- Re: herbs for calming associative st... spudlydoo
15 y
2,342
- Re: herbs for calming associative st... Molly Bloom
15 y
2,483
- Re: herbs for calming associative st... #38782
15 y
2,605
- Re: herbs for calming associative st... GrannyCat
15 y
2,921
- Re: herbs for calming associative st... spudlydoo
15 y
2,436
- Re: herbs for calming associative st... Hveragerthi
15 y
3,505
This is a reply to # 1,481,924
Hv, I'm currently looking into herbs or natural therapies that can help with the sometimes debilitating "associative storms" that I have. Associative storms are what I call the inability to stop a run of certain thoughts and actions, triggered by an outside source (words,noises,smells etc), this can be debilitating if it happens at work, or in a conversation with someone that doesn't know me well. When the trigger sets off these thoughts, (sometimes verbalisations), my mind calls up every bit of information on whatever subject the trigger is associated with. Usually this is quick and I just let it happen, but sometimes it can tie up my mind for minutes at a time, and people think I'm cracked. I have tried behavioural therapies, such as trying to distract myself, or even physically moving away from the trigger, but nothing seems to help.
Any ideas would be appreciated :)Hi Spud,
The first thing I would focus on is GABA levels or activity. GABA functions as both a neurotransmitter and a neurotransmitter inhibitor, so it has kind of a balancing effect on the nervous system. If you can GABA I recommend 750mg 3 times daily at least 30 minutes before meals. I have seen it work for other similar disorders.
The herb ashwagandha also stimulates the GABA receptors, so this is an alternative if you cannot find the GABA itself in the 750mg strength. Although ashwagandha will not be quite as strong.
Another suggestion is 5-hydroxytryptophan (5-HTP), which is a precursor for serotonin. I have seen some research in the past showing a possible link to low serotonin to Aspberger's, OCD and some other conditions. The 5-HTP comes in 50mg and 100gm strengths. I would start with the 50s, 3 times daily at least 30 minutes before meals.
I believe you said you were also on the TMG, which I would also stick with. As a methyl donor this will help with the serotonin production.
Hv
- Re: herbs for calming associative st... spudlydoo
15 y
2,549
This is a reply to # 1,482,253Thanks Hv, I have had my seratonin levels checked out, and I have normal to high seratonin levels each time I'm tested. So for me at least, this does not seem to be a problem. GABA is really expensive here, but I am going to try the ashwagandha.
Usually when I have one of these 'storms' I just go away by myself until it passes, but there are situations where this is not possible. I was at work the other night and I was talking with some people about philosophy, the name of a philosopher set off one of these storms, and the information, (some of it really silly stuff), about this philosopher just kept coming, and it was virtually paralizing. It lasted a good few minutes, and the people I was with thought I was a bit nuts. So you can see why I want to find ways of at least trying to control it a little.
spud- Re: herbs for calming associative st... Hveragerthi
15 y
3,676
R
This is a reply to # 1,482,261
Thanks Hv, I have had my seratonin levels checked out, and I have normal to high seratonin levels each time I'm tested. So for me at least, this does not seem to be a problem. GABA is really expensive here, but I am going to try the ashwagandha.
Keep in mind that blood serotonin levels and brain serotonin levels are two separate things. Excessive serotonin in the brain can be a problem. So the serotonin produced by the flora (80% of the body's serotonin) does not cross in to the brain. The brain generates its own serotonin.
- Re: herbs for calming associative st... spudlydoo
15 y
2,518
This is a reply to # 1,482,310Thanks Hv, it was blood seratonin levels that I had tested. I really don't like to mess around with my brain chemistry too much, I don't suffer from Depression at the moment, (have had 2 episodes in the past, but a long time ago, and none since), so I think that maybe I should leave well enough alone in that aspect. A reduction in stress is something I've been working on for the last few years now. One of the reasons I no longer work for the coroner, was that it was a job with high stress levels, particularly the part of the job where I had to deal with the families of the deceased, this caused the most stress.
I believe that stress is the greatest cause of illness in our society, more so than any other environmental factors or even genetic factors. While its not practical to expect a life with no stress, it is possible to minimise the bodies reaction to stress, and this is where the herbs and supplements can work. My first reaction to stress, (as with many aspergers people) is to withdraw into my own world, this is not always practical, or ideal for anyone else in my life, (my partner finds this particularly hard to deal with), so it would be good to find a natural remedy for stress reduction, that also will do not harm, or make me into a zombie, (read SSRI's ).
I'm going to do a bit more research on the GABA and the other supps that you have suggested.
many thanks,
spud- Re: herbs for calming associative st... Hveragerthi
15 y
2,664
This is a reply to # 1,482,329
I believe that stress is the greatest cause of illness in our society, more so than any other environmental factors or even genetic factors. While its not practical to expect a life with no stress, it is possible to minimise the bodies reaction to stress, and this is where the herbs and supplements can work.
I totally agree.
- Re: stress = illness l*u*l*u*
15 y
2,393
This is a reply to # 1,482,346hv - i think you have already made some amazing points about stress/illness/imbalance.
from: //www.curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1476498#i
‘And I avoid stress as much as possible, which is the primary thing I feel keeps me healthy. I try not to worry about things as worrying does not change a thing. And the majority of the time things turn out differently than we expected. So people tend to worry too often over nothing. Just keep believing that everything will be alright.’
+
‘I don't set an alarm unless I absolutely have to. Otherwise I go to sleep when I am tired and wake up whenever I wake up.’
i have never, ever been good in the morning. i am virtually catatonic for the whole day when i have to wake up to an alarm. and i have never been able to eat before midday. i have been like this since i was a wee thing. i have never accepted a job that requires me to be at work at any particular time (i've only ever worked freelance because, otherwise, it doesn't work well for anyone - least of all me). i am also of the vampiric circadian rhythm: i am most lovely at night. i love 3am.
but. since i got sick, i have had *so* many people tell me that i need to change my kreb's cycle (get up and eat before 9am yada). well, my own system worked perfectly for many more years than it hasn't - so i'm not buying. and now i am particularly hypersensitive to having to wake up to an alarm. if i wake up unnaturally, i cannot construct intelligible sentences for the whole rest of the day, i slur my speech, my legs ache and i feel completely disconnected all day. and the next day: i crash.
i'm so with your theory about stress = illness. and i like your kreb's cycle theory (don't fight it). it just makes perfect sense. and makes me love you just that little bit more ;)
- lulu
- Re: stress = illness l*u*l*u*
15 y
2,393
- Re: herbs for calming associative st... Hveragerthi
15 y
2,664
- Re: herbs for calming associative st... spudlydoo
15 y
2,518
- Re: herbs for calming associative st... Hveragerthi
15 y
3,676
R
- Re: herbs for calming associative st... spudlydoo
15 y
2,549
- Re: herbs for calming associative st... Molly Bloom
15 y
2,742
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