Re: Blinded by the light

I doubt you could find anyone who does not credit the use of hygene and santiation for the reduction of diseases. After all it was the very same doctors you deride that were the driving force behind these measures. These variables don’t change the fact of the reduction in disease from vaccinations as stated in this study.

I don’t know where you are living. As far back as 1900s my family had indoor plumbing. Regardless, as long as the outdoor facility is well constructed it is no more likely to result in disease than an indoor facility.  The amount of urbanization from 1957 to 1977 has not even doubled going from 54 to 91 million acres. In fact by 1910s we crossed the mark in the US, and there were more people living in urban areas than in rural areas.  Do you have any documentation supporting your claims?

1843 Dr. Oliver Wendell Holmes was already preaching the importance of handwashing as childbed fever prevention. It was echoed by Semmelweis in 1947.  In 1879 the great Louis Pasteur shouted at a conference “The thing that kills women with [childbirth fever]...is you doctors that carry deadly microbes from sick women to healthy ones."

They do need to be more careful about hand washing even now. It’s an ongoing struggle but not relevant to a discussion about vaccines.

My dismissal was mainly of you and your use of quotes from non-experts and advocates. Unless your quotes came from the conclusion section of a research paper then they are no value. Believing in something no matter how fervently and honestly doesn’t make it a fact. Present some facts that indicate THIS study is wrong.

Veterinarian Don Hamilton also holds little credibility in this field, and of course, he is talking about CATS and DOGS!  The first reason is that the EVIDENCE shows him to be wrong and vaccines do protect animals against their intended diseases.  Culling might be a good thing for animals and it happens all the time; but I doubt you would get much support when it comes to culling humans. Several decades ago a certain government became interested in cleansing and strengthening the population. Things did not turn out so well for them. The second reason is a personal one; morally, I just object to culling humans… I guess it’s my thing.

Are you from Mars? Just which doctors are you seeing that are directing you away from a healthy lifestyle. Come on! That is just an outrageous lie! Find me a doctor that is telling you to become obese, eat trans-fats, watch more TV and not to exercise. Just where is this doctor of yours that is recommending bacon cheeseburgers, Twinkies, smoking, alcohol consumption and a less active lifestyle? If people actually followed the dietary and activity recommendations put out by the doctors, within a few short years we could be a much healthier nation. Sloth and gluttony are the culprits, not doctors.

BTW.  Do you also have a dentist that tells you to eat sticky sugary foods and never to brush or floss? :)

I haven’t read the book that you mention, so I can’t comment on it.

I made no admission, what I did was point out how foolish your argument was. To take a similar position on other things which we do not fully understand would result in us doing nothing, including eating something as simple as eating an apple or taking a walk. Do you claim to FULLY understand what happens when you take your oleander concoction? Is there anything in this world that you think you FULLY UNDERSTAND? Not only is your argument naïve, your position is ignorant because, as I pointed out, we can never be sure we understand something fully. The goal of science isn’t to fully understand something, just to study it and described it more accurately. And the role of eosinophils was always a hotly debated issue, the book hadn’t been closed on this. For you to suggest that science ‘had it wrong’ is dishonest.

Ultimately all your (ie naysayers not just you) comments about the study being wrong, flawed or cooked up don’t add up to anything without the evidence to back it up. So for now any such opinion is to be filed along with the WMDs dossier.