You are using religious thinking to try to define something not religious. Think of trying to define "red" in terms of "blue" and "yellow". It just doesn't work.
God knows me. That's it.
You are using religious thinking to try to define something not religious. Think of trying to define "red" in terms of "blue" and "yellow". It just doesn't work.
God knows me. That's it.
You cannot... worship a hypothesis...
You haven't met many modern scientists, have you?
*giggle*
Hmmm... #18626 offered two competing ideas. One of them was typical Christianity, and the other suggests that anyone else thinking in terms of God, in a non-religious sense -- I'm assuming here that this means anyone who believes in God but not in religion -- is doing so in a fairly Christian manner.
We aren't. God without religion isn't about doing the things that religions do but without going to church. Some may perform that way, I suppose, but that's not what it means to me.
I do not spend time seeking favor from God. God knows me, and so he knows what I need and want at any given time -- even those times when perhaps I don't.
I do not spend time trying to please God. God knows me -- put me here, knowing who I am -- so nothing I do is going to surprise Him. Who I am is someone who does not believe that God needs me to give Him back the gifts He's given me in order to appease Him.
I do not spend time accepting a sacrifice from a being named Jesus, nor would I ever ask another to intercede before God on my behalf. God knows me, and so there is nothing else anyone can change that simple truth, and so there is nothing that needs to be said to God to "save" me.
There is no "requirement" of faith or belief. God knows me, whether I care to acknowledge it or not. I could choose not to believe in gravity, for example, but gravity still believes in me.
There is no "works" involved. There might be faith. Those three little words -- "God knows me" -- just feel right. Is that faith?
If this gives you peace, I am glad. But so would the more indepth relationship.
How do you know what would give me peace?
How more "in depth" can you get than God's knowledge?
Does your belief go beyond just accepting that God knows you? Something like I know God, or I accept God's role in my life? (I'm sure there are other ways of saying that)
Nope. To ask for something more is to suggest that I know better than God what I need. But... God knows me.
Do you recognize when God moves in your life? Or do you just accept that it happens?
A bit of both, sometimes. It depends on how observant I'm being.
Of course, if you find this offensive I apologize ahead. I mean no offense by my curiousity!
None taken.
Why would your saying something like "I know God" suggest you know better than God?
That's not quite what I said. What I said was, "To ask for something more is to suggest that I know better than God what I need." God knows me. He knows what I really need. Trying to establish a relationship with Him beyond what I have is kinda like trying to take a short cut to the finish line, except that the only way to appreciate the artwork at the end of the journey is to have seen the flowers and the graffiti along the way.
Let me give you an example from way out in left field. There is a movie called Switch (Blake Edwards). This movie was out a long time, I could have seen it many times, I had opportunities. I did not, however, actually see that movie until after I had a child. Prior to that experience -- being a father -- I could not possibly have appreciated what Blake Edwards was trying to tell me. It would have just been a bit of amusement, but not the amazing, life-altering message.
When I really need to know God, as much as I can at that particular moment, I do. Usually, this occurs in a flash of insight which is something like "dying and being born again", because there's that whole "life flashing before my eyes" thing going on, and then whatever bit of clarity I need is blatantly obvious (and usually I can hear something like "God laughing with me"... yeah, "with" me... heh...).
Most of the time, however, I'm taking in the flowers and the graffiti, so that I'll have some scenes to flash before my eyes that I can be clear about.
Hi,
Sorry for taking so long to return to this forum to continue the chat.
You kinda have it, I think, but I think I've missed making the point fully, so please let me try again.
The issue I have with your reply is the use of the word "unauthorized". Every choice I could possibly make is already authorized. Life is here to give me all those opportunities. Intentionally striving to know God isn't an "unauthorized" shortcut; it's just unnecessary, because the route has already been laid out, and while from among all the possibilities before me, certain choices can get me there sooner rather than later, the fact is that all choices eventually get me there. Even the bone-headed ones. Especially the bone-headed ones.
Sometimes, I need to make bone-headed choices to see why I shouldn't make bone-headed choices. Sometimes, I make irresponsible or overly selfish choices and the consequences -- not punishment, but consequences -- remind me why irresponsibility or excessive self-focus are not really who I am or the direction I want to go.
Thus, even the stupider choices serve a purpose. To make a (series of) "wrong" choice(s) a "right" choice, I must simply learn from my actions (and stop repeating them if they aren't "right").
I can be pretty stubborn sometimes....
To perhaps bring it around to familiar territory to you, consider Matthew 6:25-34. This quote isn't the exact quote I'm looking for, but it gives the general idea. Striving to know God above and beyond the matrix of choices before me is, to me, just another way of worrying (and lying to myself about it) that I'm "not on the right path" or some such. I trust God enough not to try to "strive", therefore. This bit of wisdom from the Bible (I believe the same message can be found in the Old Testamanet, too... Psalms? Proverbs? It's been awhile...) is among my favorites.
Make sense?
=-John-=
Hello!
Are you saying that all things/experiences in life are to be noticed and appriciated?
No, but I don't disagree with that.
Or are you saying that the best path is the one where you are passive and say "if it happens, cool. if not, that's cool too."?
No. The best path (for me) is the one I'm on. This does not make it the best path for you!
What I'm saying is God already put the right path for me to be on right here, right now. "Trying to find" the right path, or trying to go faster, or striving to be closer to God, or what have you, is denying that God's already got me covered. Why deny God's superior planning? God's got time. By God's grace, so do I. Let's, Him and I, both enjoy the show and see what I can pick up along the way.
It isn't that striving to be closer to God is a bad thing. There have been times when I've made such efforts, when that was the path I chose. That's what taught me not to be in such a hurry.
I am not right now at a point where making a mad dash for the finish line is spiritually possible. I can't even see the finish line. I'm still on baby steps. Just like the baby first rolls over, then sits up, then crawls, then stands, then takes a few steps, then begins to walk, then learns that toddler run... All that stuff takes time to figure out, and there are usually bumps and bruises along the way. And while some of the effort might be directed toward being like Mom or Dad, often times, what compels the toddler to learn those skills is personal gratification -- having fun, getting praise, acquiring the toy, whatever. The "wanting to be like Mom or Dad" aspect (which I liken to striving to be closer to God) is just one bit of it, and often times life itself is a much better teacher and motivator. And so, too, life provides better lessons than the mere striving to be closer to God can.
For me.
My path.
Note that it's not necessarily the best possible path I could chose, but that requires having some basis for knowing what "best" is, which how am I to know if I don't try it out and find out? And note that subsequent lessons might just teach me that I need to go into "strive" mode again. Who knows? The story is still being written.
=-John-=