Copper! 
pynegj
10 y
3,141
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Hi all
12 months on and Im still asking which is it? copper or histamine. Its annoying because up until october I had gone the longest priod yet (3 months) with none of the typical symptoms I'd suffered from for years - palpitations, sweats, insomnia, emotional issues.
But since then Ive had one of the worst periods in years. Will I ever be consistently well?! Heart racing all the time. Not sleeping. And I dont know if its high histamine in the meat I eat (to reduce copper) or copper casuing the issues 9 I have had some stress and eaten a little more chocolate). I need daily meat to combat copper toxicity but then it causes histamine issues (biounavailable copper due to copper toxicity raises histamine).
I go two days where I think its copper then back to histamine and vica versa and Im never settled. I know the liver and adrenals are involved too. Granted I have drank alcohol in recent weeks but again is that the histamine in the fermented drink or zinc being depleted by alcohol and raising copper levels? Is my drinking water high in copper so im never truly recovering?
I began copper detox early 2012 and whilst I know I could still be copper dumping or absorbing copper from new sources its now been 3 years.
Like Laredo do I have to watch both copper and histamine intake? Also its so hard to know if Im dumping copper or im reabsorbing more copper - causing symptoms. Stress for example causes copper dumps. I also think I have a slow stage two liver detox phase.
HOW ON EARTH do i know from day to day if copper (dumping or toxicity) or histamine is casuing me problems? CAnt both causes adrenal stress, tiredness, skin problems, emotional issues? Anyone advise?
Thanks!
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- Re: Copper! joegrane
10 y
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This is a reply to # 2,225,813Advertisement
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”The formula you guys have developed is so gentle, unique, and effective.”
What are you doing to support adrenals?
It would be interesting to hear how you respond to even 10mg pregnenolone twice per day, maybe with a little adrenal *cortex* glandular
Are you getting plenty of magnesium, maybe in the glycinate form?
Are you getting enough fluids and electrolytes?- Re: Copper! pynegj
10 y
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This is a reply to # 2,225,824Thanks
ive had adrenal issues for years. keep on top of all my elecrolytes. Magnesium spray for 5 years now. I have this one stressor left you see. And I know I have a problem with copper (slow oxidizer, liver, adrenal dysfunction) and histamine (low cortisol,biounavailalbe copper/calcium).
when i dont get these months of setback im otherwise fine. Just dont know what my adrenal response is - to the copper or to the histamine!- Re: Copper! joegrane
10 y
2,667
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This is a reply to # 2,225,825Are you opposed to taking a little adrenal support such as pregnenolone?
- Re: Copper! joegrane
10 y
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- Re: Copper! pynegj
10 y
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- Re: Copper! charkee
10 y
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The copper issue is not the cause. It is subconscious and conscious emotional distress. When these are resolved your body will naturally heal without all the worries if you are eating right or wrong.
Good diet is important, but it is of secondary importance.- It's All In Your Head joegrane
10 y
2,856
This is a reply to # 2,225,918Hearing a blatantly irresponsible statement such as, "...the cause. It is subconscious and conscious emotional distress." MAKES ME PUKE!!!
A long-time very close middle aged female friend suffered for decades from PTSD. Yes, she had a troubling childhood, was a victim of a violent crime as a teen and was essentially disabled with PTSD, etc.
For decades she admirably sought counselors, doctors, spiritual directors, attended support groups, etc. She was quite fortunate to have the financial resources to do that and also live a lifestyle that most would consider very low stress. However she made only modest progress with the PTSD.
After being in the yahoo heavy metal detox groups for months for my lead toxicity problem I kept seeing reports from members, especially females, with my friend's symptom cluster. I kept hearing about the importance of adrenal support but I was clueless about its importance or role.
She dug up an old hair test from when her health was at its worst--#368 at this site with 1000+ hair tests and symptoms lists from the detox groups.
http://livingnetwork.co.za/chelationnetwork/hairtest/hairtest22/
According to the theory by PhD chemist, author and detox consultant, Andrew Cutler, the test suggested that mercury as well as adrenal insufficiency were involved. An early version of the theory is in this discussion with a noted autism doctor.
http://onibasu.com/archives/am/2200.html
Her mood related symptom cluster was surprisingly similar to the description in Cutler's book Amalgam Illness.
So she started on a list of supplements that Cutler suggests for people who have her symptoms due to mercury. In addition to a basic set of antioxidants, magnesium, etc she added:
GABA (also the related amino acid glutamine) was amazing. It kicks in within an hour.
Pregnenolone, the grandmother of the steroid adrenal cortex hormones, was also amazing in a matter of a day or so.
She was able to think more clearly in stressful situations. She would rarely melt down. Her tendency to zone-out and "disassociate" in very stressful situations flat-out disappeared! It was amazing.
To make the history more disgusting, for over ten years she had been going to an HMO endocrinologist for thyroid medication with modest benefit. Endocrinologists are the doctors for adrenals, yet he did nothing for her list of damn hypo adrenal symptoms as long as her arm!!!
I got her to a functional medicine doctor for hormone balancing. Sure enough her 4x saliva cortisol test reported low cortisol almost all of the day. Her blood pregnenolone was borderline low even though she had been taking 20mg per day.
The doctor added additional pregnenolone which kicked in nicely, also very low dose hydrocortisone and related supplements. Some hormone creams were also added--progesterone, testosterone and and later estrogen.
She is almost a different person.
She still has a counselor, uses meditation/prayer/spiritual practices, goes to support groups weekly and reads related books. She finds all of these to be helpful. I'm not at all discouraging anyone from using these! However she also had some combination of physiological problems causing or contributing to her symptoms.
If a person has tried reasonable attempts to self regulate mood with little success, maybe your body has some type of chemistry problem whereby it cannot make normal levels of needed chemicals--hormones, neurotransmitters, etc. Maybe your liver and detox system are not able to get rid of normal body toxins and external toxins at a normal rate. Maybe your brain is not regulating hormones properly.
At some point doesn't it make sense to consider these possible problems?!
The great pioneer in mercury free dentistry, Dr Hal Huggins, has a fairly well known book in alternative medicine circles entitled, Its All in Your Head. He once wrote a somewhat humorous article on this topic as it relates to chronic fatigue.
http://www.hugginsappliedhealing.com/fatigue.php
http://hugginsappliedhealing.com/store/It-s-All-In-Your-Head-Softcover.html
- Re: It's All In Your Head phoenixceliac
10 y
2,706
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J.Crow’s® Lugol’s Iodine Solution. Restore lost reserves.
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This is a reply to # 2,225,951Advertisement
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Yes, body chemistry can affect everything. As a high copper person, I know that. Mood, energy, life outlook, the works. Glad you mentioned hair testing, Joe. I am sold on it. It's not only revealed my high copper but low phosphorus (poor digestion) but calcium shell, etc. The great news is that everything can be corrected in time with the right supplements, diet, adequate rest, and detox protocols. BTW, I don't claim to be an expert, but I would only do hair testing at labs that don't wash the hair prior to the test. As far as I know, TEI and ARL are the only ones. (Correct me if I'm wrong.)
I use ARL, http://www.arltma.com, and trust their results. I used to consult with one of the owners there (his dad founded ARL), and he knew a lot. He himself had been high copper. Now I work with a practitioner who has been very well-trained in all aspects of hair analysis...he's helped me tremendously.
phoenixceliac
- Re: It's All In Your Head joegrane
10 y
2,619
This is a reply to # 2,226,024How long have you been trying to get the high copper under control?
I assume you ruled out contamination from pipes, pools, etc.- Re: It's All In Your Head phoenixceliac
10 y
2,590
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For several years now, Joe. I didn't know copper was an issue until I did hair testing, and it was high on the very first test. I likely was born with too much copper because my mother has symptoms of it as well. I had underlying fatigue all my adult life and chalked it up to undiagnosed celiac disease. My energy increased dramatically when I went gluten free, and other problems also resolved. However, about that time I started going through menopause and needed estrogen because mine was almost nonexistent. The estrogen increased the copper. Migraines took over my life (which can be caused by copper), and they eventually led me to hair analysis.
I'm making steady progress now, but there were a lot of other issues that have come out. Oxidation was very slow, digestion was extremely poor, etc. So lots of things are being addressed all at once. Once I began doing coffee enemas, parasites began to come out.
My focus has shifted from my just needing to get the copper lowered to letting my body deal with whatever is wrong. Truly we don't know what lurks underneath our skin!! I'm someone who not only needed the right supplements to change my body chemistry but the right diet, more rest, and detox protocols. CEs have done amazing things for my sluggish liver, and I am now using a home NIR sauna to help sweat out more toxins.- Re: It's All In Your Head joegrane
10 y
2,591
- Re: It's All In Your Head phoenixceliac
10 y
2,727
This is a reply to # 2,226,178Zinc and ox bile have been very important in this journey. ARL, http://www.arltma.com, has a really good digestive supplement called GB-3 with ox bile and some other good stuff in it. I take 3-4 of those with almost every meal. It also helps destroy parasites.
I took molybdenum at first, based on suggestions from the lab. However, once I started working with my current practitioner, he's not a fan of it. So I haven't been on that for quite a while. Overall, I found the lab's suggestions helpful. But I have gotten more help with a practitioner who has years of experience working directly with clients. He also pushed me into doing CEs and using a sauna. I needed both.Advertisement
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- Re: It's All In Your Head phoenixceliac
10 y
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- Re: It's All In Your Head joegrane
10 y
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- Re: It's All In Your Head phoenixceliac
10 y
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- Re: It's All In Your Head joegrane
10 y
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- Re: It's All In Your Head--continued joegrane
10 y
2,582
This is a reply to # 2,225,951As you can see I'm sensitive to irresponsible accusations that a list of symptoms including mood symptoms are just hypochondria or psychosomatic.
I also had to deal with this when I was sick with a mysterious and long list of symptoms including some adrenal fatigue. I am "fortunate" that I also had a well documented case of a mysterious psychological problem that responded well to heavy metal detox. It is now rather obvious that I was not a hypochondriac.
//www.curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1951581
"Sometimes it takes the doctors a while to figure out what is causing a disease. Until recently it was believed that ulcers were entirely psychosomatic. Ulcer sufferers underwent prolonged treatment, were seldom cured, and often ended up under the surgeon's knife. It is now known that most ulcers are due to Helicobacter pylori infection, and ulcers are easily cured."
"Lyme disease is a fascinating story. A housewife fell ill. Her symptoms were considered psychosomatic. When her husband and children came down with similar problems, this was regarded as some kind of projection of her psychosomatic complaint. She was eventually able to convince a physician that the only crazy thing was assuming that something psychosomatic could be contagious! Once the doctor gave the whole family medicine they all got better."
"Chronic Fatigue Immune Deficiency Syndrome (CFIDS) is still routinely considered a psychiatric disorder despite the repeated publication of physical and laboratory abnormalities always found in victims of it. People who realize it's not "Yuppie flu" find treatments that help them get better. A lot of these are covered in this book since CFIDS is often caused by unrecognized mercury poisoning and I had a terrible time with it myself."
Andrew Cutler, PhD http://amalgamillness.com/AboutTheAuthor.html
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- Re: It's All In Your Head charkee
10 y
2,961
This is a reply to # 2,225,951A case of idiocy masquerading as an intellectual. The shear proof of no cure for one single chronic disease that is reliable or even at the level of simple placebo should have woken you all up a long, long time ago.
You are so caught up in your own arrogance that you completely fail and deny the D9 Caterpillar that has crashed into your front room.
You make me puke, you are holding back the progress of humanity, you are a dinosaur and the principles you are advocating have prematurely shortened the lives of millions.
Daily I see your much beloved hair splitting Science turned over on its head and made a mockery of. 'People get sick because they lack this or too much of that-stupidity'
So why does one family member get sick and the others do not while all on the same diet and same environment? This or that doesn't get metabolized correctly.... duh that must be the cause duh....well why is this cause happening.... duh.....? You know it all down to the molecular level but still don't know the cause. Blame it on the DNA, blame it on the phase of the moon.
Haven't you yet noticed with your keen scientific observatory skills that people are here on curezone because Science is not working... duh.... They are looking for something that really works, then there are idiots like you that are pushing the same exact paradigm as the Medical Industrial Complex with an "alternative" face that are doing the onerous job of misinforming and even ridiculing the only area that Science is loath to look into.
In fact MDs that do research in this field are often terrorized, defrocked and even imprisoned. I'm sure you'd be one sitting upon the medieval judgment bar advocating the burning of Galileo. A colleague of mine was having phenomenal success with autism had to flee the USA and set up a clinic in Costa Rica.
Ponce de Leon died searching for his elixir all the while the answer was within. You are no different and you all the while are unaware of the real reason for your search. Stupid dinosaur, or maybe you are not, perhaps a plant by the MIC?
You are probably too afraid to even face your own emotions, hence the constant search to keep yourself busy looking for the next answer that never satisfies.
Haven't you ever looked directly into your client's eyes and wondered why some don't get better? Yes, indeed its all in your head and it is blocking you from being anything more than a substance pusher of temporary fixes.
You are worse than irresponsible and I'll give you the benefit of a doubt, you just another stupid dinosaur that seeks value, love and appreciation by trying to look smart.
- Re: It's All In Your Head phoenixceliac
10 y
2,692
This is a reply to # 2,226,253I won't get into this debate. However, I am appalled at the name-calling that goes on at Curezone!! I moderate a forum for celiac disease, and we shut people down who get nasty with another poster.
phoenixceliac- Re: It's All In Your Head joegrane
10 y
3,066
This is a reply to # 2,226,274Advertisement
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Passionate debate is important in controversial topics, especially for those who are new to the debate and are looking to learn. Of course a disrespectful debate won't be productive.
When I was new to the debate about heavy metals (HMs) for my list of symptoms including adrenal fatigue I sought out the debates so I could be aware of the relevant issues. I was also looking for the person with the best explanations.
I'm much more confident than most people in HM detox groups because my case was well documented and rather obvious--in retrospect. Getting a good diagnosis for a HM problem is often so difficult.
Prior to starting detox my urine porphyrins, urine test provoked with DMSA and hair tests were all negative for a HM problem. The hair test reported lead and cadmium as the highest of the nasty toxins but they were not really high. They also matched well my symptom list, my exposure history growing up in a renovation construction business, and my response to related supplements.
Having a mysterious bone density problem and low kidney numbers correct themselves after a couple of years of HM detox gives me more confidence to discuss my case than the average person with and HM problem. Most of us are stuck with mood problems, food intolerance, fatigue, etc. It is hard to quantify those. It is easier to accuse a person of having a psychological problem. It is much harder to ignore a series of bone density tests in a person who once broke his leg without any contact while just playing badminton with little relatives!
Now that I've witnessed the gradual transformation of my close female friend who was essentially disabled for decades with PTSD I'm even more confident about speaking out. How many others are suffering needlessly because they did not get a good diagnosis!?
Obviously most people don't have a HM problem; however, if a person has a list of symptoms that match and doctors have not made much progress getting to the root of the problem, doesn't it make sense to consider HMs?
Remember, Charkee, wrote "The copper issue is not the cause. It is subconscious and conscious emotional distress."
How can any sane person be that confident from reading a couple of posts from someone in a discussion group? That's just crazy.
- Re: It's All In Your Head phoenixceliac
10 y
2,583
This is a reply to # 2,226,591I have no problem with debate, passionate or otherwise, Joe. It's the name-calling. I felt like his response to you was full of insults directed personally at you. I don't see any benefit in that.
- Re: It's All In Your Head phoenixceliac
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- Re: It's All In Your Head joegrane
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- Re: It's All In Your Head phoenixceliac
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- Re: It's All In Your Head #46136
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Just last night i was watching a BBC documentary on psychopathy, a study was done to start to offer therapy to psychopaths in prison.
Shockingly, (or not to some), those that had received therapy went on to re-offend when released, and were more likely to continue this behaviour, than those who had not received any therapy at all.
This outcome completely baffled psychologists, understandably!
Psychology currently doesn't know how to deal with psychopaths. The studies have been vast, and there is no set 'rules' that makes a psychopath. They completely discount the notion that all psychopaths are born out of childhood horror experiences.
Schizophrenia also has been studied on a more cellular level and you'll now find published results of exactly the same cellular imbalances occuring in schizophrenics. Primarily the genetic enzymes responsible for breaking down free-radicals tend to be fully mutated in schizophrenics.
So these individuals bodies are akin to a toxic sewer - each cell drowning in toxic amounts of H2O2, lactic acids etc etc - which, when one looks at the effects of these toxicities, many symptoms are emotional/mood changes.
Often these outcomes are published, and it's a reminder that we exist in a polarity:
If thoughts/emotions effects cell health...then inversely, cell health effects thoughts and emotions.
Orthomolecular medicine pioneers in the field Pfeiffer and Walsh, demonstrated indeed that toxic cellular health creates 'mental illness'and with supplemental nutritional balancing eradicating even extreme forms of schizophrenia.
A more whole-istic view needs to be taken to determine route cause.
Too many are on one side of the fence or the other - and it hinders progress of both sides.- Re: It's All In Your Head joegrane
10 y
2,709
This is a reply to # 2,226,679Wow, that is surprising. I would have expected psychotherapy to be quite helpful to some of them much the same way medication is somewhat helpful to some people or religion is helpful to some people.
I would not expect all of them to have the same combinations of problems, but just being in prison should leave some effects that I'd expect would be helped by psychotherapy to some extent.
Yes, the work by Walsh, Pfeiffer and others is encouraging. For example, one of them says that 4% of people with schizophrenia improve dramatically by eliminating gluten. While this is not a cure for scizophrenia, for those 4% it is life changing.
http://alternativementalhealth.com/articles/default.htm#w
What are the chances that an HMO doctor is going to be able to really consider the many possible contributing factors for a mysterious illness when the patient's insurance company is only paying for 15 minutes of time?
"Dr. Sponaugle has treated over 5,000 substance abusers—with a relapse rate of only 9%!"
http://www.lef.org/magazine/2011/10/Novel-Methods-to-Cure-Drug-Addiction/Page-01
He uses a more holistic approach that includes an evaluation of hormones, digestive tract imbalances, etc.
Sites such as Curezone can play an important role in a person's recovery by providing clues or leads to suffering people. They can then discuss these leads with the appropriate medical professional.
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- Re: It's All In Your Head joegrane
10 y
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- Re: It's All In Your Head phoenixceliac
10 y
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- It's All In Your Head joegrane
10 y
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- Re: Copper! tnorth52
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- Re: Copper! joegrane
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