Expand 20 messages, 1 to 20 of 114 
#130249
14 y
6,268
- Expand 20 messages, 21 to 40 of 114 spudlydoo
14 y
5,377
- Expand 20 messages, 41 to 60 of 114 #118839
14 y
5,432
- Expand 20 messages, 61 to 80 of 114 Hveragerthi
14 y
5,266
- Expand 20 messages, 81 to 100 of 114 Hveragerthi
14 y
4,965
Re: middle eastern, greeks, meditere... Hveragerthi
14 y
5,041
This is a reply to # 1,667,038I fail to see any reasonable purpose for you to attempt to discredit something you know absolutely nothing about !
Funny coming from you being that you clearly don't understand even the most basic functions of the body other than the liver stores glycogen. But that is like saying I know that fuel tanks on rockets hold fuel so therefore I must be a rocket scientist.
But since you keep insisting that the liver is the regulator for blood sugar here is something for you to answer. In order for the liver to regulate blood sugar it would have to be directly sensitive to serum glucose levels so it knows when to release the stored glycogen. So what receptors exactly in the liver monitor serum glucose levels in order to know when to release stored glycogen? Good luck since if you cannot answer you have proven my point.
Advertisement
J.Crow’s® Lugol’s Iodine
Free S&H.Restore lost reserves.J.CROW’S®Lugol’s Iodine Solution
- Re: middle eastern, greeks, meditere... Hveragerthi
14 y
4,859
This is a reply to # 1,666,692
I say that that stuff coming out is not good for us regardless of it being stones or something else. Where precisely it comes from - who cares?
The one benefit is the olive oil sterols are binding the excess cholesterol in the bile preventing a lot of its reabsorption. But this still at the risk of lodging a real gallstone in the bile ducts not to mention the amount of calories the oil provides.
I'll continue with my flushes. My first successful one produced stuff but only significant one health benefit: feces which were orange for a long time became brown again. It happened immediately after the flush. They have never been orange since. Or to your mind colour is irrelevant? Merely a cosmetic thing?
The color comes from the bile in the feces. So it is merely showing that you were not releasing bile properly for whatever reason. Oils stimulate the release of bile, thus the stool became more brown. Nothing magical or spectacular.
My latest productive flush: my symptoms of hypoglycemia are lessened. If these thing could be quantified, I would put a figure of 75% improvement on it.But the gallbladder has NOTHING to do with hypoglycemia. Your effects are more likely from the magnesium intake, which is required for proper blood sugar regulation. So again nothing to do with the supposed expulsion of gallstones or the actual expulsion of pseudostones that are formed in the intestines from the chemical reactions between the olive oil and bile.
- Re: middle eastern, greeks, meditere... #21862
14 y
4,975
This is a reply to # 1,666,475This is not a debate, discussion or an attempt at more rhetorical nonsense. I did not ask for an alternative to the liver flush. This is a well pointed question to you, who has clearly stated that it is non-sensical to assume that the liver/GB is being flushed with said ingredients. Therefore, produce a formula that produces the faux/pseudo soap stones you keep referring too. The formula cannot use Liver Flush ingredients nor any chemical/herb that stimulates the liver or gall bladder.
I simply want the formula to produce these fake soap stones that you say is simply the result of a chemical reaction. You have repeatedly inferred that your knowledge of chemistry is superior to the average liver flusher, so I'm simply asking you to produce the formula that anyone can follow to produce soap stones. Then people can make a rational decision based on the facts.
If it is not possible then your theory is just a theory and has no basis in fact. You claim to be scientific then produce a scientific result. No more talk, it is time to produce the formula or admit that you cannot and that can be the end of it.
- Re: middle eastern, greeks, meditere... Hveragerthi
14 y
4,951
This is a reply to # 1,666,847Advertisement
J.Crow’s® Lugol’s Iodine
Free S&H.Restore lost reserves.J.CROW’S®Lugol’s Iodine Solution
This is not a debate, discussion or an attempt at more rhetorical nonsense. I did not ask for an alternative to the liver flush. This is a well pointed question to you, who has clearly stated that it is non-sensical to assume that the liver/GB is being flushed with said ingredients. Therefore, produce a formula that produces the faux/pseudo soap stones you keep referring too. The formula cannot use liver flush ingredients nor any chemical/herb that stimulates the liver or gall bladder.
I simply want the formula to produce these fake soap stones that you say is simply the result of a chemical reaction. You have repeatedly inferred that your knowledge of chemistry is superior to the average liver flusher, so I'm simply asking you to produce the formula that anyone can follow to produce soap stones. Then people can make a rational decision based on the facts.
If it is not possible then your theory is just a theory and has no basis in fact. You claim to be scientific then produce a scientific result. No more talk, it is time to produce the formula or admit that you cannot and that can be the end of it.If you want to prove it yourself then you can spend the time and money to do it. Buy some cholesterol from a chemical supply company, it is around $500 a pound, then add a sterol source such as olive oil and you will get your little pseudo-stones. Simple. But I am not going to spend the money nor the time for a bunch of people that so far have ignored every piece of evidence already that has proven that the flushes are bogus. Doing so it like trying to give information on how to quit a drug to a drug addict that DOES NOT want to quit the drug in the first place. They will do whatever it takes to ignore the facts as the LF addicts here have been doing. So if you really want to know the truth you now know how to do it. It is not my job to prove anything to anyone who can care less about the truth. But as with the drug addict you will not put forth the effort to find the truth if you don't want to see the truth. So it is all up to you to prove it to yourself if you really want to know the truth.
- Re: middle eastern, greeks, meditere... daizymae
14 y
4,971
This is a reply to # 1,666,934Hveragerthi said to Daisymae:
"The color comes from the bile in the feces. So it is merely showing that you were not releasing bile properly for whatever reason. Oils stimulate the release of bile, thus the stool became more brown. Nothing magical or spectacular."
Are you saying that that one flush, 13 months ago, caused my 2-year-long insufficiency of bile to be cured? If so, that flush is a wonderful thing for people worried about orange bowel movements caused by the body's inability to produce the required quantity of bile. Amazingly wonderful, I say.
I wonder why the oils and fats I consume on a daily basis would not have stimulated the necessary amount of bile prior to my Dr. Sutter-type flush. I have never followed a low-fat diet.
P.S. If a person has done one or more flushes and claims alleviation or reduction of chronic symptoms, I say, why can't you just take him or her at their word. What do you care, really. Also, if someone feels that he is fundamentally cured by some invasive, painful, costly, complex, hightech, doctor-approved, orthodox medical treatment, I do not get my knickers in a twist over it. We are all entitled to our feelings. The suffering caused by standard medical treatments may be what they subconsciously want and need. Er...you DO recognize the existence of a subconscious, don't you?- Re: middle eastern, greeks, meditere... Hveragerthi
14 y
5,005
This is a reply to # 1,666,950
Hveragerthi said to Daisymae:
"The color comes from the bile in the feces. So it is merely showing that you were not releasing bile properly for whatever reason. Oils stimulate the release of bile, thus the stool became more brown. Nothing magical or spectacular."
Are you saying that that one flush, 13 months ago, caused my 2-year-long insufficiency of bile to be cured?Maybe the oil cleared out some sludge that would be small enough to pass allowing the bile to flow easier. Maybe you changed something else such as diet or got off of a hormone or something around the same time as a means to better your health. I don't know since I have no real information on your true history.
If so, that flush is a wonderful thing for people worried about orange bowel movements caused by the body's inability to produce the required quantity of bile. Amazingly wonderful, I say.
So would it still be so wonderful if someone ends up with pancreatitis from a lodged real gallstone in the bile ducts? Are you willing to pay someone's hospital bill for the surgery because they followed your advice without being warned of the dangers? In fact why is it that all the "flush" supporters never mention the possible dangers?
I wonder why the oils and fats I consume on a daily basis would not have stimulated the necessary amount of bile prior to my Dr. Sutter-type flush. I have never followed a low-fat diet.I explained this before as well. The amount of oil used in these "flushes" are way more than the typical amount of oil the average person would consume in a meal.
P.S. If a person has done one or more flushes and claims alleviation or reduction of chronic symptoms, I say, why can't you just take him or her at their word. What do you care, really.Oh that's right, you don't care as you said previously. Well I do care about people's health and safety. And doing something that does not do what it is claimed to do but can end someone up in the hospital is a concern for me. So if you don't care about putting yourself at risk then that is your business. But when you are going to promote this quackery without warning unsuspecting people of the potential dangers then I am stepping in because as I said I do care about people's health and safety. That is why I spend so much time exposing the quackery in both mainstream and alternative medicines, and teach people about what really works and is safer.
Furthermore using your own reasoning we can state with certainty that chemotherapy is wonderful for cancer patients and autoimmune conditions since it makes people feel better. And using your reasoning taking out the gallbladder must be a good thing in the case of gallstones or cholecystitis since it will make people feel better when it is removed. Heck for that matter I supposed you would also advocate someone having their leg removed if they stub their toe so their toe won't hurt anymore!!!! I guess you also feel heroin and cocaine are great for you since they will also make you feel better. Do you see how irrational your line of reasoning is? Just because something makes you feel better this does not make it safe nor effective.
Also, if someone feels that he is fundamentally cured by some invasive, painful, costly, complex, hightech, doctor-approved, orthodox medical treatment, I do not get my knickers in a twist over it. We are all entitled to our feelings. The suffering caused by standard medical treatments may be what they subconsciously want and need. Er...you DO recognize the existence of a subconscious, don't you?
Yes, in fact I just finished a video on the mind-body connection causing psychosomatic illnesses yesterday. So what are you implying? That you are feeling better from the "flushes" from a placebo effect? That could be the closest to being right you have been yet.
By the way, instead of justifying the flushes with your assumptions why don't you give us a reasonable explanation of how the "flushes" cured you? I have posted more than enough evidence that this is quackery. So why don't you try to post some real evidence that there is any validity to the "flushes" instead of " I think they must work so therefore my mind will follow through on that belief"?
Advertisement
J.Crow’s® Lugol’s Iodine
Free S&H.Restore lost reserves.J.CROW’S®Lugol’s Iodine Solution
- Re: middle eastern, greeks, meditere... daizymae
14 y
4,941
This is a reply to # 1,667,012You stated:
"So would it still be so wonderful if someone ends up with pancreatitis from a lodged real gallstone in the bile ducts? Are you willing to pay someone's hospital bill for the surgery because they followed your advice without being warned of the dangers? In fact why is it that all the "flush" supporters never mention the possible dangers?"
?????
What would cause the gallstone to move from the gallbladder and lodge anywhere at all if the flush has no effect in clearing the gallbladder? If it can lodge where it shouldn't, maybe it could also keep on going and end up in the large bowel.
You said:
"Maybe the oil cleared out some sludge that would be small enough to pass allowing the bile to flow easier. Maybe you changed something else such as diet or got off of a hormone or something around the same time as a means to better your health. I don't know since I have no real information on your true history."
Yes, possibly the oil cleared out some sludge. But how can you suggest that there is "some sludge" there that needed clearing out? What proof do you have that sludge can gather in the liver/gallbladder/duct system? If there is indeed "sludge" maybe, just a suggestion here, that sludge over a long period of time could form little balls of stuff. Stuff that, right or wrong, some people call "stones"
And, no, I had not changed my way of eating nor "got off of a hormone". I don't take any hormones. Pure poison in my books, unless it is a matter of life & death like, say, Addison's. I did say that the improvement in bowel movement colour happened immediately the morning after. So, I am thanking the oil + lemon juice ingestion for that. I don't know what else to conclude.
I don't feel responsible for anybody else's health issues. I've never promoted the Liver Flush for anybody. And even if I did, they'd be right stupid to listen to me. I have no credentials that would allow me go around prescribing, that's why I don't do it. All I talk about is my own experiences where the flush is concerned.
I like jousting with you, telling you of my own experiences, and then watching you fly off the handle.
- Re: middle eastern, greeks, meditere... Hveragerthi
14 y
4,884
This is a reply to # 1,667,056
You stated:
"So would it still be so wonderful if someone ends up with pancreatitis from a lodged real gallstone in the bile ducts? Are you willing to pay someone's hospital bill for the surgery because they followed your advice without being warned of the dangers? In fact why is it that all the "flush" supporters never mention the possible dangers?"
?????
What would cause the gallstone to move from the gallbladder and lodge anywhere at all if the flush has no effect in clearing the gallbladder? If it can lodge where it shouldn't, maybe it could also keep on going and end up in the large bowel.Again you are only hearing what you want to hear and not what was said. I have said repeatedly that IF there are real gallstones present that the strong contractions of the gallbladder from the large amount of oil can cause a stone to lodge in the bile ducts.
You said:
"Maybe the oil cleared out some sludge that would be small enough to pass allowing the bile to flow easier. Maybe you changed something else such as diet or got off of a hormone or something around the same time as a means to better your health. I don't know since I have no real information on your true history."
Yes, possibly the oil cleared out some sludge. But how can you suggest that there is "some sludge" there that needed clearing out?I did not suggest that there is, but rather that there may have been. Stop playing around with what I actually said. I was merely pointing out one possibility.
What proof do you have that sludge can gather in the liver/gallbladder/duct system? If there is indeed "sludge" maybe, just a suggestion here, that sludge over a long period of time could form little balls of stuff. Stuff that, right or wrong, some people call "stones"
Biliary sludge is well known in medicine, all you had to do was to look it up:
http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=8402
By the way, you have things backward again. The sludge does not form from balls, the gallstones form as the particles in the sludge grow larger.
And, no, I had not changed my way of eating nor "got off of a hormone". I don't take any hormones. Pure poison in my books, unless it is a matter of life & death like, say, Addison's. I did say that the improvement in bowel movement colour happened immediately the morning after. So, I am thanking the oil + lemon juice ingestion for that. I don't know what else to conclude.And I already proposed a possible explanation for this. But you still have yet to provide any reasonable explanation as to how this happened. So how do you know that the flush had anything to do with it? Maybe it was coincidence? Maybe it was placebo since you also believe in the mind-body connection? And I still think that there was some type of change in the diet. The reason for this is you stated the stools were orange. Problem is that a lack of bile causes pale tan stools, not orange stools. In fact I have never heard of any medical condition whatsoever that will cause orange stools. On the other hand things in the diet could tint low bile stools orange, such as orange dyes or carotenoids in the diet. Of course if there was a lack of bile to begin with the increase in bile would not actually get rid of the orange, but would rather mask the color.
I don't feel responsible for anybody else's health issues. I've never promoted the liver flush for anybody.You are advocating the supposed benefits of these so-called flushes, which is promotion. And the more you argue about the supposed benefits the more you promote it. If you did not promote it then you would be happy with what you experienced and not say anything about it to anyone. So you continue to promote "liver flushing" despite its being proven quackery, and yet not one word from you about the potential dangers. So it is no different than your saying Russian roulette is fun and not telling people they can be injured or die from playing it.
And even if I did, they'd be right stupid to listen to me.
Of course, because the "flushes" are not expelling gallstones. So no argument there.
- Re: middle eastern, greeks, meditere... Hveragerthi
14 y
4,884
- Re: middle eastern, greeks, meditere... daizymae
14 y
4,941
- Re: middle eastern, greeks, meditere... Hveragerthi
14 y
5,005
- Re: middle eastern, greeks, meditere... daizymae
14 y
4,971
- Re: middle eastern, greeks, meditere... slider25
14 y
5,288
This is a reply to # 1,666,847Advertisement
J.Crow’s® Lugol’s Iodine
Free S&H.Restore lost reserves.J.CROW’S®Lugol’s Iodine Solution
Well well well, the Liver Flush debates never fail to ignite a long debate!
As I mentioned a few months ago, I've done these for years and I'm still not sure what the mechanics of the process are in relation to symptomatic improvement.
It's definately not magnesium sulphate, as I haven't used it for years. I think it's a complete waste of time unless you really need to evacuate the colon. This supposed dilation of the bile ducts is a bit far fetched imo.
I was doing the flush for chronic fatigue and I also had under-eye fluid retention causing a puffy appearance. So I'm guessing that would be lymphatic fluid. Anyway, I would do a flush - go to bed - and wake up and the the amount of fluid in my lower eye-lid would go down considerably. So that was literally something visable that I could observe happening after a flush.
Sometimes I would feel worse and eye-bags would be even worse than before the flush, so that always confused me. What was happening to make a flush successful in regards to improving symptoms and what was happening to make it worse?
Anyhoo, my 2 cents
Slider
- Re: middle eastern, greeks, meditere... Hveragerthi
14 y
4,951
