There is lots of data if you care to look for it.
For someone going by the name "Innercalm" I find it so ironic that you keep acting like a raging lunatic.
But I am going to make this short and simple. I am not bashing Gerson. I did not bash coffee enemas in general. Again go back and read my original post. I was pointing out a contradiction where someone is trying to build up their adrenals with herbs, but are stressing the adrenals with caffeine. It is that simple!!! But you had to go off the deep end and make a big issue over something you assumed I said rather than reading what I actually did say.
As far as Gerson goes I have no opinion one way or the other on his therapy because I have never really studied his protocol. In fact what I said had NOTHING to do with Gerson whatsoever!!! The ONLY thing it had to do with is a contradiction between trying to build up the adrenals with herbs while tearing them down with caffeine. The liver can be easily cleansed without caffeine or other stimulants whatsoever. But the queen of Wonderland was so eager to see me beheaded that she could not even see straight enough to actually read what I wrote before pouncing!!!
As far as the data you claim exists, I already know the effects of stimulants on the body, which was the ONLY thing at issue. Again I never said word one about Gerson's protocol. But you claimed that the caffeine does not adversely affect the body. I am not going to go in search of evidence to your claim when I already know you are wrong, and this is why you have spent more time trying to pick a fight than it would have taken to post some proof of your claim if ANY evidence to back your claim existed. So get over yourself!!!!!!
The only reason I am calling you out is because you walk around and piss on everyone with your holier than thou attitude calling a righteous attitude superiority.
Hmmmm, and what do you think you are doing with your childish tirade?!!!!!
What I find interesting is that you are so intent are arguing that you do not realize that I never said that the coffee enemas did not work. All I pointed out was that the caffeine was hard on the adrenals. Maybe you should put more of that energy towards learning to read rather than whining because someone posted some facts!!!
By the way if you read many of the threads on my forum you will see that there are a lot of posts on there that I disagree with. But I do not bash them as you think and I do not edit their posts or erase them as Moreless did. So comparing me to Moreless is like comparing you to someone that really has a clue what they are talking about!!!
But speaking of Moreless I do see some similarities between you and Moreless. Both of you relentlessly attack those who challenge you, both of you don't care if the information you present is harmful and will go out of your way to cover up that fact, both of you are always blaming others for doing the same actions you are bitching about......... Incredible, you are the reincarnation of Moreless!!!!
I did some research and there is a possible mechanism to differentiate orally administered from anally administered caffeine: The hepatic portal system. This series of veins connects the gastrointestinal tract to the liver.
Thanks for discussing this instead of coming back with attacks. It is so nice discussing these things with a real adult.
``Many drugs that are absorbed through the GI tract are substantially metabolized by the liver before reaching general circulation. This is known as the first pass effect. As a consequence, certain drugs can only be taken via certain routes.''
I don't know how caffeine works. Does it require activation? When and where is it metabolized, and with what efficiency? Is the first step metabolite inactive?
This link explains this:
http://www.energyfiend.com/2010/01/caffeine-metablolism
"As soon as the caffeine enters the body it is metabolized by the liver and broken down into theophylline, theobromine and paraxanthine.
From there these chemicals travel throughout the body where they effect various body functions. "
All three of those compounds are stimulants that still adversely affect the adrenals. Therefore as we can see it does not matter if the caffeine and other alkaloids go from the colon directly through the portal vein to the liver.
Absorption is actually quite high for the colon. What is funny is that one site talking about Gerson was claiming that the alkaloids in the coffee were stimulating the liver's detoxification system. Then they turn around and claim that the caffeine has no effect on the body because the coffee is not absorbed from the colon. Apparently they don't realize that the caffeine is one of those alkaloids they are claiming that stimulates the detoxification system.
Something to note is that palmitic acid from coffee is said to have an effect on the liver.
I had not heard that before. An alternative doctor I was working with years ago said it was the caffeine that was stimulating the detox. But I just did a search and yes, the palmitic acid does have an effect by stimulating glutathione S-transferase. Although this was in rats, not humans. So further research is still needed to show this effect in humans. In addition it needs to be shown that palmitic acid is absorbed from the colon. In the studies they used the salts, but palmitic acid is generally found in fats. And fats are emulsified and absorbed in the small intestine, not the colon.
It could be that there is an impact derived from this alone, and that one might even forego the caffeine. Find a different source of palmitic acid.
Again absorption of those sources may be a problem since fats are emulsified and absorbed in the small intestine, not the colon.
Even then, though, this could still be more "button mashing" without a good understanding of the ultimate effects. It seems it has something to do with acetyl-CoA. Could be the caffeine crashing is propped up by metabolic overdriving. Coffee palmitic acid to liver -> acetyl-CoA carboxylase inhibition -> elevated acetyl-CoA -> increased fat metabolism. If this is what's going on, you can expect more ketone bodies. (Advocates! You can get ketone test strips from the local pharmacy! Are your levels elevated?) Things to be careful about, then, would be heightened ketosis or even ketoacidosis (breath smelling like fruit or nail polish remover, increased blood acidity, possibly elevated insulin levels) and phosphofructokinase deficiency (exercise-induced muscle cramps and weakness, dark urine, high uric acid in the blood, gout, renal failure). Anyway, that's my guess. Oh, and beware fatiguing adrenals with caffeine while doing the rest of this overdriving. You might get the same good feeling from a milk enema (milk has palmitic acid). Or maybe the palmitic acid levels are much higher in milk and would result in a dangerous degree of button mashing? Try a dilute milk enema, maybe. You know, like a decaf cuppa joe with a dash of cream, sugar optional.
Caffeine along with the theophylline, theobromine and paraxanthine do aid in the metabolism of fats. This is because these xanthines are cyclic adenosine monophosphate phosphodiesterase inhibitors (cAMPPDEIs). This is why they are used in so many weight loss products such as weight loss pills and cellulite creams. It was not that many years back that everyone had an ephedrine-caffeine weight loss product on the market. The ephedrine was used to stimulate cyclic adenosine monophosphate (cAMP) release, which stimulated the burning of body fat. But it was short lived in the body because an enzyme known as cyclic adenosine monophosphate phosphodiesterase would break down the cAMP. So the caffeine or other xanthines were combined to inhibit this enzyme thereby prolonging the fat burning effects of the ephedrine stimulated cAMP.
But none of this has anything to do with the crashing of the adrenals. That is simply from the release of epinephrine and corticosteroids from the adrenals faster than the adrenals can produce them.
Anyway, Hveragerthi, don't rely on the advocates who base their beliefs on hearsay to be the ones to give you the information you need.
I don't at all. I rely on what has been known about the human body for decades and real studies, not it must work because I feel better testimonies. Cocaine will also make them feel better, this does not make it beneficial or healthy.
Nor should you condemn coffee enemas outright because the advocates are underinformed or misinformed (re Gerson's track record, e.g.). (You don't actually seem to be doing this, though.) You'll need to do your own research.
I never condemned them outright. That is just the portrayal that is being presented by a few here that do not like me. All I did was to point out that the caffeine in the coffee can have adverse effects on the adrenals. which is CONTRADICTORY to the work they were doing to try and build the adrenals. I cannot help it if a few people here over react to what I posted because they shot their nerves with coffee enemas. Here is a copy of my original post. As anyone can see I was merely pointing out the contradiciton:
He is definitely right about the nettle leaf. Great stuff. Nettle leaf helps the adrenals, thyroid, liver, kidneys, intestines, etc.
What I do disagree with is the coffee enemas. They are using the caffeine to stimulate the liver, but caffeine also crashes the adrenals. So on one hand you are building the adrenals with the nettle leaf and licorice root, but tearing down the adrenals with the caffeine.
Using digestive bitters is a better way of cleansing the liver without crashing the adrenals in the process.
http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=1455932#i
http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=1445229#i
So as we can see I never said coffee enemas were outright bad. Some people here were just looking to pick a fight because they are on a power trip. That is why I appreciate your discussing the topic instead of also picking a fight. Thanks again.