I want to apologize! 
vektek
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I'm going to go through and erase a lot of messages under the tread I started about Moreless last week, including part of the original message. It is not my place at all to say who is a Christian and who isn't. I said a lot of things I shouldn't of said in that thread. God is the judge. He knows the heart, not me. Although I still disagree with much of Moreless's teachings about Christianity, and find that many of the things he says do not match up to what I read in the bible, it is still not my place at all to say whether he is a christian or not. I have said many times that I don't think a christian has to understand all truth and everything biblical to be a christian. If that was the case, none of us would be christians.
I know it makes people really mad when someone goes in and erases messages, but sometimes if a message is just totally wrong, I think it's better for the message to be erased than left for others to come and read later. This is just one thread anyway.
So Moreless, I am sorry for saying you weren't a christian. And I am sorry to everyone else for my attitude period last week. It was uncalled for. God has blessed me and my husband so much just in the last several days, and I realize that everything we have is by his grace. I have nothing to boast about. Refreshed tried to get me to understand last week that the way to help someone see their errors was through showing them more grace, not with forceful accusations. She is right, and I was wrong. So, Refreshed, I apologize to you, Moreless, and everyone. I still want to return here when my husband and I get more settled, but I want to come with a much more positive message when I do. :)
So, talk to ya'll later! and may God bless you all!
- Re: I want to apologize! refreshed
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- Re: I want to apologize! been there done that
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This is a reply to # 1,363,115Vektek,
I sense that, as a woman, you would have the ability to express love for God the same as was expressed by Mary in the following verses...
http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=wiped+H...
That's what true devotion really is (LOVE for GOD...and then everything else will fall into place).
I read your posts last week and you mentioned that "truth" is very important to you (it's important for salvation too, this fact has never really been taught)...
2 Thessalonians 2:10
"because they refused to love the truth AND SO BE SAVED".
God designed/engineered scripture similar to the parables...
Luke 8:10
"To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of God; but for others they are in parables...".
No event in scripture is random/happenstance, everything happened as it was supposed to so that every word could be available to us and we could learn from them if we wished to learn more about God.
God had Pilate ask "What is truth" (John 18:38) so the individual reader would be able to discover the significance of objective truth. Humanity only cares about SUBJECTIVE (biased/emotional) truth that will be more convenient.
So, even though you made a mistake (the act of repenting was the learning experience), consider yourself blessed by the experience.
Apologies are good (if they are for a GENUINE injustice). You really were not unjust, but you are right that God is the judge (and it's better not to sow discord). You were only defending the truth (but it's better not to sow discord, this is the dilemna we are left with). Don't be too hard on yourself, there will be more trials/learning experiences ahead.
It is for those who can express the same sentiment as Mary to develop eyes to see and ears to hear in order to learn the "depths of God" (1 Corinthians 2:10) and have a "faith FOR faith" (Romans 1:17, Hebrews 11:6) and "walk by THE SPIRIT" (Galatians 5:16) so we can "enter by the door" (John 10:1) and be judged under "the law of liberty" (James 1:25, 2:12, Ephesians 2:15). Our love should become perfect (1 John 4:18, Mark 12:30) after coming to know The Lord as "Abba Father" (Galatians 4:6, instead of master/taskmaster) and we should be "friend" (James 2:23, instead of slave/servant) and trust that Jesus did ALL of the "works of God" (John 6:28 and 9:3) when He established the outer temple in "three days" (John 2:19 and 21). We are the inner temple...
1 Corinthians 3:16
"Then they said to him, "What must we do, to be doing the works of God?".
If we fully TRUST that His graciously given FREE gift (NOT imperialist gift, nothing is expected in return) is sufficient for the "guarantee" (eternal life, Ephesians 1:14) of salvation, His "works" will be "manifested in" us...
John 9:3
Jesus answered, "the works of God might be made manifest...".
The inner ("living" water flowed at the cross) baptism by His spirit (Acts 1:5, 1 John 5:6, John 7:38) is so that we "neither thirst" (Revelations 7:16). The "strong delusion" has been in effect all throughout history because mankind rather love the bible instead of God "in truth" and in one's spirit".
In the introductory doctrine of Jesus (Hebrews 6:1),..."word of TRUTH" (2 Timothy 2:15, Ephesians 1:13, John 14:6), God gives us alot of good advice (wise counsel) and insight into human nature. There should be NO "self abasement" (Colossians 2:18, contrary to what is commonly taught and believed), so don't be anxious to apologize when you haven't been unjust, but are simply defending the truth.
The bible is not a spiritual authority. Jesus said...
Matthew 28:18
"ALL authority in heaven and earth was given to me".- Re: I want to apologize! vektek
15 y
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MoreThis is a reply to # 1,363,674Been there done that, thank you for your post. You said a lot in that post! I appreciate all you said, and your scriptural references too!
- Re: I want to apologize! #20928
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This is a reply to # 1,363,674[[[The bible is not a spiritual authority. Jesus said...
Matthew 28:18
"ALL authority in heaven and earth was given to me".]]]
How, from that one line, do you come to the conclusion that scripture does not have any spiritual authority? There is more scripture, used in context, that will prove otherwise.
If Scripture is the Word of God, and Jesus was referred to as God's Word in the flesh, how then is the Bible(God's Word) not a spiritual authority?
If not by scripture how does one know what is of God? If by 'feeling' then how do you test those 'feelings' to determine whether it is of God and not something else? It is clear in the new testament that Jesus used the Scriptures to both teach people and rebuke the devil, that was the 'rule' he used to judge. EVERYTHING he did or said was congruent to Scripture. What would make anyone think that somehow, somewhere down the line, scripture became obsolete all a of the sudden and "not a spiritual authority.' ?
Hmmm... Jesus is "Spiritual authority," and used Scripture to back everything he said and did. Yet, "Scripture is not a spiritual authority." Does that make any sense at all?
In Christ.- Re: I want to apologize! vektek
15 y
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- Re: I want to apologize! been there done that
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This is a reply to # 1,364,21720928,
Since "God is LOVE" (genuine deep love), and you are putting scripture BEFORE Him (you love the bible), you simply don't have the capacity in your heart and MIND ("Be transformed by the renewal of your MIND", Romans 12:2) to know God "IN TRUTH" and in spirit, the bible is your god (The Lord will have no other gods before Him).
Matthew 28:18 is SELF EXPLANATORY (just like so many verses), but you insist on DRAWING CONCLUSIONS from scripture and you like to INTERPRET instead of UNDERSTAND scripture "as is" (INTERPRETATION is the habit and biggest mistake of Christianity). Mat. 28:18 is probably the most self explanatory verse in the whole bible, but it takes common sense to understand it. You see, it's the "self abasement" that is dehumanizing to churchgoers, it keeps the human being from thinking like a human being.
Ephesians 5:17
"Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is".
Obviously, you didn't even try to develop eyes to see and ears to hear, but the bottom line is that if you can't love our true heritage GENUINELY and EXCLUSIVELY (without placing anyone or anything before Him,...such as the bible or Paul, apostles, Bereans, etc.),....this is known as FIDELITY, then you would never be able to understand the depths of God (read 1 Corin. chapter 13, the LOVE chapter).
The bible didn't hang on the cross, neither did anyone else (INCLUDING the brethren IN CHRIST, they are only kinfolk in Christ and should receive no special treatment), ONLY Jesus hung there (where's your loyalty?? where's your heart?).
You, like everybody else on earth, have freewill (which means that you are not OBLIGATED to believe that Mat. 28:18 means what it does, you can continue being a puppet of the moneychangers (it's your choice and your soul).
- Re: I want to apologize! #20928
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This is a reply to # 1,364,291If you understood God's Word, which is Scripture AND Christ Jesus, you would understand the importance of scripture. Quoting scripture out of context is the exact same tool that those "puppet of the moneychangers " that you speak of use themselves to deceive others.
"Self-explanatory" as in explanation derived from "self?" Then what does that indicate as your object of worship and belief? The correct way is to let scripture explain scripture. If anything ascribed to God contradicts Scripture, then it cannot be "truth." It would not be "of God."
Isaiah 28:9-13 (King James Version)
9Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
10For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
11For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
12To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
13But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
Here are some of God's Word that I've posted before:
2 Timothy 3:16-17 (New International Version)
16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
Matthew 22:28-39 (New International Version)
28Now then, at the resurrection, whose wife will she be of the seven, since all of them were married to her?"
29Jesus replied, "You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God."
Mark 12:9-11 (New International Version)
9"What then will the owner of the vineyard do? He will come and kill those tenants and give the vineyard to others. 10Haven't you read this scripture:
" 'The stone the builders rejected
has become the capstone;
11the Lord has done this,
and it is marvelous in our eyes'?"
Why did Jesus emphasize Scripture so much, if it is as irrelevant as you say it is? Does the scripture agree with what you are suggesting?
Do you believe God, or yourself? If you want me to find more evidence that contradicts what you say, I can find tons more. - Re: I want to apologize! stoneface
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This is a reply to # 1,364,291been there and done that,
You said an interesting word in you message: INTERPRETATION!
I don’t normally read much of the texts with direct quotations from the bible, as I take them exactly as you said: INTERPRETATIONS!
Secondly I do respect people who choose to read the bible and believe what they are reading. That is everybody’s right.
What I don’t like, that every church has a man (or woman) in front of the audience INTERPRETING a text, which is already INTERPRETED!
To me, I do not need an INTERPRETER to love my GOD, or creator.
I am his, when my time is up!
Amen
Peace for all
SF
- "INTERPRETATION," a major key! #20928
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This is a reply to # 1,364,325Do we interpret with our own understanding without using God's Word as input. Or, do we let someone else interpret for us? Finally, would letting scripture interpret other scripture "line upon line," "precept upon precept," to insure congruency be the "correct" way? One should ask one's self and pray for understanding.
Peace and Love.
- "INTERPRETATION," a major key! #20928
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- Re: I want to apologize! #20928
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- Re: I want to apologize! evanluck
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This is a reply to # 1,364,217Whenever the word scripture is used in the Bible, the writer was not referring to the book that we have in front of us today that has been translated from its original language and canonized by the Roman Catholic church.
So when scripture is used in the Bible the writer is generally referring to the Torah.
You believe that Jesus is the Word of God but then you use the fact that Jesus quoted the Torah to transpose the authority given to Jesus to the entire Bible. Seems like a stretch to me.
Jesus said:
"You have neither heard the Father's voice nor seen his form.
But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe.
You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me.
But you are not willing to come to me that you may have life."
John 5:37-40
Again, if there are those who meet Jesus in the pages of the Bible, I say halleluYah! But recognize that it is Jesus that is the Word of God not the Bible. When you are reading scripture and certain words "jump out at you" or "seem particularly relevant to your life or situation" that is Jesus quoting scripture to speak to you, very much in the way that he did when he walked the earth as a man.
How are we to know that what we "feel" in our hearts is from the Father speaking through Jesus (His Living Word)?
"My sheep hear my voice. I know them, and they follow me."
John 10:27
We worship an unseen God. Throughout history man clamors for something that he can see to worship rather than worshiping a God who is unseen. It is easy to see when people are bowing down to a gold statue but much more subtle when it is a holy man (i.e. a charismatic preacher) or a holy book (i.e. the Bible).
When Jesus walked the earth, he quoted scripture but he also spoke many other words that became scripture because he spoke them. Would you limit the Living Word of God to words that he has already spoken because you are unwilling to trust that you are his sheep and that you hear his voice?
In my own personal relationship with the Father, his Living Word speaks to and teaches me everyday using everything that you can possibly imagine...websites I run into, people I meet, a song on the radio, a movie I see, a book I read, and yes even the Bible.
There are approximate 880 million illiterate people in the world. Do you think that none of them have access to the Word of God? If you limit the Word of God to what is written in the Bible are you not excluding them?
I tell you this...Jesus has sheep that hear his voice everyday, obey his words, and through them receive the abundance of the Father's blessings yet they do not know Jesus or the Father by name nor have they ever read the Bible.- Re: I want to apologize! #20928
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This is a reply to # 1,364,307Do you doubt God's power to guard His Word? It appears you do doubt God's abilities.
Matthew 6:30 (King James Version)
30Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?
Matthew 14:30-32 (King James Version)
30But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me.
31And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?
32And when they were come into the ship, the wind ceased.
Do not doubt God's Power!
As for those that don't have access to a Bible or are illiterate, there is a thing called "accountability." They are not accountable for what they don't know. And for us that have access and can understand the language it's written in we would be accountable for what we do know. This could be a blessing or a curse, depending on what you choose to do with the knowledge.- Re: I want to apologize! evanluck
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MoreThis is a reply to # 1,364,311You are assuming the Bible is God's Word...yet the Bible never even refers to itself as God's Word.
I know that God can do anything...
Do you assume that God's intention is to keep the Bible as a pristine reservoir for the totality of his communication to man so that man may go to a book instead of to God directly?
Perhaps we should take the advice of scripture and:
"go into your room, close the door, and pray to your Father who is hidden. And your Father who sees from the hidden place will reward you."- edit #20928
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This is a reply to # 1,364,317Okay, if you question the NT, which is great folly, how about the OT from which Jesus quoted from?
Isaiah 28:9-13 (King James Version)
9Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
10For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
11For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
12To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
13But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
Without the NT we would not have a record of Jesus or the Apostles. You cannot say " I believe God," or "I believe Jesus," then dismiss scripture. It is contrary and contradictory to do so. If you really think that way, it should be clear that Jesus is not whom you follow. Even though you THINK you do.
Edit: "go into your room, close the door, and pray to your Father who is hidden. And your Father who sees from the hidden place will reward you."
I DO pray to God and ask for understanding.
Perhaps you have too? Any whomever you prayed to tells you to dismiss scripture?
Scripture IS God's Word.
- Why even quote ANY scripture? #20928
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This is a reply to # 1,364,319Or believe any of it's contents (Jesus)if you are going to dismiss it all together?
If you only use some of it and not ALL of it as instructed, then you are obviously not worshiping or following God of the Bible, the one TRUE God.
If you say you love god and believe god, yet you will not even try to understand scripture, then what god are you worshiping?
Or show me a scripture(in context) that tells us to only use certain scripture and to disregarding others?
What we are failing to see is that this is the EXACT SAME TACTIC used by those whom we criticize!
-Psalm 119:160 (New King James Version)
160 The entirety of Your word is truth,
And every one of Your righteous judgments endures forever.
-1 Corinthians 4:6 (New King James Version)
6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other.
-Deuteronomy 12:32 (New King James Version)
32 “Whatever I command you, be careful to observe it; you shall not add to it nor take away from it.
-Deuteronomy 4:2 (New King James Version)
2 You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you
-Proverbs 30:5-6 (New King James Version)
5 Every word of God is pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
6 Do not add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.
-Revelation 22:18-19 (New King James Version)
18 For[a] I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add[b] to him the plagues that are written in this book; 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away[c] his part from the Book[d] of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Satan's deception is strong! We must resist him!
- Re: Why even quote ANY scripture? evanluck
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This is a reply to # 1,364,323I quote scripture in an attempt to make an argument that scripture and the Word of God are different. I believe that the totality of scripture confesses to this fact.
Let's take a look at the beginning of John and replace references to the Word of God with the Bible.
In the beginning was the Bible, and the Bible was with God, and the Bible was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by the Bible; and without the Bible was not any thing made that was made. 4 In the Bible was life; and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
Does this sound right to you?
Does this sound like scripture testifying that the Bible is the Word of God or scripture testifying that the Word of God was made flesh in the form of Jesus, the Christ.
I don't dismiss scripture. I only state a historical fact that the Bible as we know it has been translated from it's original written languages and canonized by the Roman Catholic church.
I have read and studied the Bible throughout my life at certain times in my relationship with God scripture has had different levels of prominence in our communication. But my relationship is with God not with scripture.
My only assertion is if you believe what scripture confesses about the Word of God...
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
You can come to the clear conclusion that scripture is scripture and the Word of God is the Word of God.
Scripture was written by men who received the Word of God and chose to write it down. Is the Word of God still speaking? Does it have anything to say about whether or not I choose to by a peach or an orange at the farmer's market? If the Word of God tells me I should buy a peach today, should I run to scripture to see if Satan is trying to deceive me into buying a peach? Perhaps I can trust God...the God that you have clearly stated is all powerful to make it clear that He and not someone else is speaking to me because I am his sheep and I know his voice.- Re: Why even quote ANY scripture? #20928
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This is a reply to # 1,364,348Wow... You failed to understand the the words are God-breathed, meaning it has His Spirit in it. If we follow Christ then we are His Body, therefore Christ. So was each one of the apostles also God, since they were His "Body"?
I admit the idea is a bit "abstract," but such is our God, beyond human understanding. The same reason why He gave us the Bible so that we may understand Him. One cannot dismiss His Word, and claim to be "of Christ." This idea is contradictory.
Do not twist the scriptures. You have been warned. The rest is between you and God. Tell me what the scripture in the my previous post means to you? What does it say about scripture?
What about the Scripture quoted below?
-2 Timothy 3:16-17 (New King James Version)
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
And where are His words recorded if not the Bible?
-John 6:63 (New King James Version)
63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.
If this spirit you follow does not coincide with Scripture, yet the Holy Spirit resides in Scripture, then what spirit are you following? Not God's Spirit, that's for sure.- Re: Why even quote ANY scripture? evanluck
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This is a reply to # 1,364,351To simplify the arguments...
if you are asserting that scripture is God inspired and useful for teaching, I agree.
So then we are back to the question of who or what is the Word of God?
You are asserting that the Word of God is the Bible...I am asserting that the Word of God is the entity that was made flesh in the person of Jesus Christ. This entity accomplished his purpose and returned to the Father and is with us today, teaching, correcting, rebuking...With some and at certain times, he uses scripture...with others and at certain times he does not but speaks words that will become scripture.
Scripture is valuable...it is holy...but the Word of God is what we follow. If scripture proves a valuable tool for you to discern whether or not you are being instructed by the Word then be blessed. I suspect that the Word of God would prefer you know him more intimately...but that is between you and God.
be still and be blessed...
- Expand 20 messages, 21 to 40 of 66 #20928
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- Re: I want to apologize! refreshed
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