Another "Christian" hoax which shows the crazy notions about sex over in the fundy area. There's absolutely no end to their silly "religious" creativity. I expect to see Moses descending Mt. St. Helens at any moment now, with a whole new set of commandments that wipe out the old ones.
Victoria Watts, a 23-year-old single mother of two small children who lives in Canton, Ohio, lost her virginity at 16 with her high school boyfriend.
She was the granddaughter of a Pentecostalist pastor and the daughter of an assistant pastor, and she believed sex outside marriage was wrong. “I felt really bad from a religious standpoint,” she recalls of the experience. “My thoughts were really clouded because I was so emotionally bonded with my boyfriend. That overshadowed my religious world.”
Though the relationship lasted for seven years and produced two beautiful children, a part of Watts always felt guilty. She wished she could step back in time and recapture her lost virginity. Thinking of how “I could have ruined one of greatest fulfillments of my life,” the first time having sex with a husband, she wanted to “have that opportunity again. I know my [future] husband deserves a whole person.”
So Watts engaged in a lot of prayer and thought, and now declares herself a virgin once again. “The most important thing was to realize what my values were and what I want in the future and the bigger goals in my life," she says. "That’s why I can call myself a renewed virgin.”
Across the country, "revirginization" appears to be gaining steam. Spiritual efforts to reclaim virginity emerged back in the early 1990s and now, prompted by abstinence-only school courses taught to thousands of girls nationwide, and by religious teachers, there are reports of more and more young women like Watts attempting a sexual do-over. Other women are opting for a more radical route to reclaim their virginity: surgical replacement of the hymen, the small membrane that stretches from the walls of the vagina and that typically breaks when a woman first has intercourse — or for many other reasons, from tampon use to vigorous exercise.
In the last few years, say doctors who perform the surgery, a steady stream of patients, many motivated by the conflict between mores in this country versus their country of birth, or the country of their parents' birth, are interested. "The rate of inquiries is increasing," says Dr. Denise Baker, a Bradenton, Fla., surgeon who performs the procedure on about 100 women a year.
Re-wrapping the gift
But is it really possible to reclaim your virginity? If it is, what
does it mean to be a virgin in the first place? And what does it mean to
“lose” one’s virginity?
Religiously motivated women like Watts believe it's very possible to become a born-again virgin — if you believe it is so and pledge abstinence until marriage.
"Have you already unwrapped the priceless gift of virginity and given it away?" asks the Web site for the Pregnancy Resource Center of Northeast Ohio, where Watts began working part-time after she reclaimed her virginity. "Do you now feel like 'second-hand goods' and no longer worthy to be cherished? Do you ever wish you could re-wrap it and give it only to your future husband or wife? Guess what...? You can decide today to commit to abstinence, wrapping a brand-new gift of virginity to present to your husband or wife on your wedding night."
The fact that some women believe they are able to recapture a kind of sexually virginal state underlines the idea that virginity is not nearly the black-and-white issue most of us think, that it has come to be as much a concept as a fact.
Laura M. Carpenter, author of the 2005 book "Virginity Lost: An Intimate Portrait of First Sexual Experiences," and an assistant professor of sociology at Vanderbilt University in Nashville, Tenn., says the meaning of virginity has been a muddle for a long time.
“The first time we are aware of that muddling, the first explicit mention or discussion of what people called ‘technical virginity’ that I have found is in 1920s,” she says. “It referred to people who were doing ‘everything but sex,’ and what was defined as losing your virginity for most people was having vaginal intercourse.”
No sex after kids
But the idea of a recreated virginity is actually much older. During
the early Middle Ages, Christians were taught that while sex in marriage was not
a sin, it was not as holy a state as complete abstinence from sex. (This is
still the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church. Pope John Paul II declared that
believing parents should “devote special attention and care to education in
virginity or celibacy as the supreme form of that self-giving that constitutes
the very meaning of human sexuality.”)
In response, some Christians adopted a form of “chaste marriage,” often after having had sex and producing children, by agreeing between themselves to forsake any future sexual union, thus becoming spiritual virgins.
Today, according to the Louisiana Governor's Program on Abstinence, an abstinence-only school sex education program, renewed virginity is easy: “DECIDE TO CHANGE.”
"Next, you’ve got to stop doing things that turn each other on. Set limits on physical contact. Talk to your date about situations that make it difficult to resist sex…”
If the idea of virginity as a state of mind sounds like the language of actors coming out rehab, it’s no coincidence, says Carpenter.
“In America there is the idea of the remade person,” she explains. “We are all in an endless state of becoming. You can remake yourself. That has been deeply ingrained in the culture for a long time. So why not virginity? Why not sexuality?”
Of course, there is also a double edge to that sword. “To some people, remakability is precisely what cheapens the thing in first place," Carpenter says. "Virginity is not special if you can be a virgin again.”
Many of Dr. Red Alinsod’s patients are not looking for a new state of mind, they want a new hymen. They come to his clinic in Laguna Beach, Calif., and pay $5,000 because their honor, and sometimes their lives, depend on it.
“Right now is the start of my busy time,” he says, “because in spring, or during summer vacation, the women go overseas and get married and they have to be all repaired by the time of their arranged weddings in the lands of their birth.”
Alinsod’s typical patient may have been born and raised in the United States, but with significant family in Malaysia, Indonesia, Vietnam, Pakistan, India, the Middle East. Without evidence a new bride is a virgin, she risks being rejected, or, worse, the victim of an “honor killing.”
“These women are very scared,” Alinsod says. “The majority do fear for their lives. So this is a life-saving procedure in the majority of women I deal with. They are afraid they will be killed by the youngest member of their family, or the youngest member of the groom’s family,” because young men are often given light jail sentences for the murders.
There are other, less extreme reasons for the surgery. Baker, the Florida surgeon, who, like Alinsod, has made uro-genital cosmetic surgery a specialty, says one patient gave her virginity to her husband in the Asian country in which they lived and then came to the United States to study medicine, staying for several years. Though she remained faithful to her husband, when it came time for her to return to her country, she felt as if their lives were about to begin again. She wished she could be revirginized, too.
Once in awhile, Baker says, she’ll get a patient who just wants to give a present to her husband. “One patient of mine gave it to her husband as an anniversary gift," says Baker. "She was not a virgin when they got married so we re-attached her hymen to reproduce that experience.”
Like Baker, Alinsod reports seeing about 100 patients for the procedure each year. The surgery itself is not overly complicated. It takes about an hour and involves stretching flaps — the remnants of the hymen — from the vaginal walls and securing them with sutures to form something resembling a drum head with a hole in the middle.
Like a virgin?
But whether this can literally make somebody a virgin depends upon
one’s point of view. When Carpenter did a study about what she called
“secondary virginity,” she found wide disagreement not only about the
plausibility of secondary virginity, but also about whether “virginity loss
should be understood as a physiological or an emotional-experiential
phenomenon.” Interestingly, of the 61 women and men interviewed,
“three-fourths of men adamantly declared secondary virginity to be impossible,
compared to about one-fourth of women,” though men sometimes declare that they
are born-again virgins, too.
While we may not agree on what virginity means, or even how we lost it and if we can get it back, it does have meaning, Carpenter insists. “If virginity did not mean anything, we would not have movies like 'American Pie.' It does matter. The content or the definitions may change, but the need or desire to mark the transition to being a sexual adult persists.”
And we do have at least some baseline definition of sex. “We are not so flexible that we say masturbation or sex toys count,” Carpenter says. Her research has found that almost everybody agrees that sex involves genitals and another person.
Everything else is just detail.
Brian Alexander is the author of the new book “America Unzipped: In Search of Sex and Satisfaction."
URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23254178/
With their kind of thinking, perhaps the only way they are going to get the return of "Jesus" is through another miraculous "immaculate" conception! Their kind of virginity will create all sorts of immaculate conceptions.
Some really good points.
It's an indication about how the fundamentalists of all religions control their members, through guilt and fear. No love there at all.
If they believe what they themselves teach, then Jesus has forgiven them of all their "sins" and it doesn't make any difference whether they are virginal or not before marriage. Yet as you point out - who the hell cares and look at what us guys can get away with.
What I see in them re-virginalizing themselves is that they are refusing to take responsibility for their own actions. Their own individual choices. It's part of the religionists game of blaming everything on someone else or the non-existent Satan. As long as they can give all their "sins" to Jesus and never take responsibility for their own creations, the won't learn much about life in this reality.
Where it does get tough is for those who have been raped, but that too requires taking responsibility for the resulting feelings and dealing with them however one wishes to do that - counseling, whatever. I know it's tough because I was raped as a child in a strict "sex doesn't exist and if it does it's all evil" environment. It's difficult to work through but once you have you are able to assist others and to also validate your own inner strengths.
I think that it's fun to watch fundamentalists in all religions, just to see it evolve. Fundamentalist Islam is no different than fundamentalist Christianity, they both rant at each other and they are just alike. They are really poking fun at themselves.
Fundamentalist Christianity is evolving. It didn't exist 200 years ago, and they don't even believe what they did 50 years ago. The rest of the world is rapidly changing and they keep resisting and making up new stories to try and keep up with the changes on the planet. Now, after centuries of denying that dinosaurers ever existed, they make up the tall tale that Noah had them on the Ark. He took them on board, so the story goes, as baby dinos. Amazing that none of them survived after the flood. It's all spelled out that way in the Creationist Museum and in home schooling. They still haven't resolved the Neanderthals and all the archeological evidence of their widespread existence and belief in an afterlife. I wonder why Noah didn't take a couple of those onto the Ark? I also wonder if they are going to see any Neanderthals in their heaven. Fun stuff.
You know, there's always a few wackos in every lot. Just because there might be one or even two hundrend people in the nation who do something, or express a wild or totally idiotic idea, doesn't mean that they are representative of an entire millions of people. How absurd!
But ok, I'll play the game. Let's call all gay people pedophiles and insist that their movement is nothing more than a disguised ploy to get into our children's...lives. Let's even point to a few well known examples in recent news history of gay pedophilia. How well would that go over and how accurate is it in asessing an entire group of people world wide? Anyone else care to join in?
I think this whole thing is stupid, from the people who actually feel a need to alter their past surgically, to critics who take this as a serious indication of fundamentalists' behavior. Gimme a massive break. Any genuine Christian who is walking spiritually and not by rules alone, knows what washes away past failures and makes you "whole" again. Hint: It ain't the doctor's needle and thread.
"Any genuine Christian who is walking spiritually and not by rules alone, knows what washes away past failures and makes you "whole" again. Hint: It ain't the doctor's needle and thread."
Well, it ain't J. C. either. He said that the kingdom of god was at hand - 2,000 years ago (after John the Baptist lost his head for teaching the same thing), and it has never left the planet. He also gave some pretty good instructions on how and where to find it as well.
If what you are implying "washes away past failures" - then why do they ask forgiveness for the same identical thing, over and over and over again. I know, I've watched it for decades. They're on one of the biggest guilt trips I've ever witnessed and they don't feel real unless they feel guilty. It's their ministers way of controlling them.
""then why do they ask forgiveness for the same identical thing, over and over and over again. ""
Dude, I haven't the foggiest idea ~what on earth ~ you're talking about!! As far as asking God for forgiveness goes, the idea is that first you repent and then God forgives you. Period. Unless you go and goof up again with the same thing, then I guess you would have to go back to Daddy and ask for forgiveness again, it's been known to happen. God forgives and forgets, and that's exactly what the scripture says clearly. I don't know of anyone who goes around asking forgiveness for the same identical thing over and over as you imply, unless you are talking about some other religion or sect different from plain Christianity 101. I dunno, is that Catholicism??
In any case, anyone who needs to apply surgical procedures to try to "reinstate" their virginity, is not only quite dysfunctional, but very unknowledgeable of Christianity.
So, what's up doc? Tell me, when's the last time you had a good 'ole belly laugh, or better yet, the last time someone gave you a great big hug? These things help one's world view inmensely you know.....
Cheeri-o (:oD)
{{{{Now, after centuries of denying that dinosaurers ever existed, they make up the tall tale that Noah had them on the Ark. He took them on board, so the story goes, as baby dinos. Amazing that none of them survived after the flood.}}}}}
"Well since you have all the answers, explain the rest."
Boy what a warped mind you have. I didn't have an answer, I raised a question. Where are the dinosaurs that creationists say that were aboard the ark?
Your sources are like all evangelical sources (even if you're not evangelical) - they have to jump through zillions of hoops to "prove" the bible correct. Same way they twist and reinvent the bible and make it say things that aren't even there.
While we're at it, why weren't the Neanderthals saved as well? Many scientists say they were every bit as intelligent as humans, possibly even more so (their brain size was larger), just didn't have the ability to communicate. Also, what part of heaven will they be in? Same as the rest of you guys?
By the way - who says that there is any conflict between biblical creationism and evolution? I sure don't see any.
"How to reclaim your virginity - if you're a "muslim"...scroll to the bottom and see..."
This is the Christianity Debate forum. What you point to is simply more
evidence that fundamentalists think alike - regardless of religion.
"I have not known of any person alive that has seen a cargo manifest for Noah's Ark. Have you?"
These fundamentalists obviously have.
Creationist museum brings dinosaurs on board Noah’s Ark
rest of story at: http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/visual_arts...
"And it may seem harmless to you now that its been exposed. But, did you know that over 500 people obtained their PhD's by writing their thesis on "the Piltdown Man"? I dare say, no one took back those PhDs after it was exposed, and those people taught hundreds of thousands of people.""
I heard that more than 60 years ago - literally. Please tell me what the theme of each those PhDs were? Were they all in support of it? What you are talking about is ancient history. Science is not perfect and dissention is what makes progress. Fundamentalism makes progress too. It has gone from nothing to where it's at now, in only 200 years. Your link to carbon dating provides no supporting scientific evidence to back up their claims.
Here is a link for a Christian case for evolution: http://www.godweb.org/evolution.htm I see no conflict between evolution and the bible. None.
Here is a link for well over 40 hominoid fossils that have been found - well after the Piltdown man. http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/specimen.html
This has many more, including our brothers - the Neanderthals: http://www.crystalinks.com/earlyhumanoids.html
""Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel." Mark 1:14, 15"
I'm in complete harmony with that. The kingdom of god was there then, it is here now, and it has never left. Jesus (and John before him) taught that over and over again.
"Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father, except through me."
According to The Jesus Seminar that passage in John 14 wasn't spoken by Jesus. It was added by someone else. But I don't have a problem with what it says. The same Jesus Seminar (200 scholars spending several years investigating and more correctly interpreting the gospels) does say that this passage of Luke 17:21 was spoken by Jesus: "...the kingdom of god is within you." The kingdom of god was on the planet before Jesus taught it. It was there when he taught it, it never left, and it is here now. All you have to do is to follow his teachings to find it.
"Now why not do one of your rants about this also?
Women get 'virginity fix' NHS operations in Muslim-driven trend
Last updated at 07:07am on 15.11.07"
I covered that earlier - it's something that you had to interject to divert attention away form the hilarious behavior of Christians. The Christian fundamentalists are acting no different than Islamic fundamentalists. The farther we go, the more alike they become.
I have no difficulty with science, even though they are not inerrant, or the Gospels (including Thomas) - they are great teachings.