Yeah, but kids and babies dying and people living in poverty with leperacy and stuff until they die an untimely death, I just have a hard time with that being growth.  We are taught no one is better than anyone else, but truthfully in our society we treat many as though they are better than the poor and ill in third world countries.  I don't need to learn value by watching some people starve to death.  But, then I am one one of those who doesn't think you need bad to know what good is.  They had it in the garden of eden, if one believes in genesis.  you're right, it is all the institutions.  It is Capitalism that is in control of everything and only a few possess all all the means of production that enslaves us to them.