well grog, you certainly know my traits. one learns more by being the fool rather than the intellect ( which i'm not ). i have learnt some from religious people, but never to fill my need. i dig at you to extract some sense of it all. it cost me but in the end i know it will be worth waiting for. the enlightenment that i look for is not a beam from the sky, but something of substance that i can come to terms with. prayer i have found helped but clouded by the thoughts of the 'placebo effect', so like you say we must plough and search for wisdom and the gut-felt truth, thanks, Tomi.