Hi Grog, Thanks for your reply. I am already a vegetarian, vegan in fact, except I am a low carbo vegan as I have gluten intolerance and hence don't have grains in my diet except for occasional rice and maybe a quinoa dish 2-3 times a year. Hopefully Lapis can find Kelley's book online as I would like to see what he originally found that worked. I see the supplement industry slipping away from us and it is time to learn how to provide specific ingredients/supplements via whole foods so we know how to do it.