I guess thats my point just what is this debate about? It seems the support forum of the same name might be a place where anyone can claim "their truth" and not be challenged ! You can claim a hunk of concrete is god but you have no fear of being challenged! In this forum I have a right to say prove it! I have a right to say you are wrong, then you can say prove it,then you can say you're wrong, on into infinity! So if we all have or own god and we all have our own definitions of religion how does a real debate take place! We can argue over definitions but whose definition is valid? Do we take votes do we decide which quotes from the bible or the quran or whatever tenets are of value and which are not! But oops thats religion is'nt it! How do you debate over a subject matter that is an oxymoron or a contradiction of terms!