Andrew D Basiago Interview
2/12/2015



Interview with Andrew Starts at 35:04

(CLICK to LISTEN)

John B: Andrew D. Basiago, he’s a lawyer from Washington State. He was a participant in two secret U.S. Defense projects. In the early 1970s he was child participant in DARPAs Project Pegasus, which was the U.S. Space-time Exploration Program at the time of the emergence of time travel in the U.S. Defense technical community. In the early 1980s, as a young adult, he participated in the CIA’s Mars Jump-Room Program, which used a revolutionary transport technology to a Human presence in & on the Red Planet.

Today he is waging a truth campaign to reveal his experiences in these programs to others, so that humanity can understand the true extent of technical development on our planet & the true history of our activities in space.

On today’s show we’re going to focus on the Mars Jump-Room Program. I think we’re about to find out that we are under some sort of a delusion to an even greater degree than we even thought.

Welcome to the Program, Andrew D Basiago.

Andrew D Basiago: Thank you for having me, it’s a pleasure to be on.

John B: How in the world does a man, as a child, get involved with DARPA? How does that happen?

Andrew D Basiago: Well, DARPA created an intelligence funnel in the mid 60s, and began to place in it anything & everything that would yield it a time travel capability. My late father, Raymond F Basiago, was a special project’s engineer for the Ralph M Parsons Company, which was the Defense contractor that achieved time-travel on behalf of the US government. So, as a young gifted kindergartener, actually I had been selected, initially, to participate several years later in those areas of the project where they needed to work with small intelligent human beings because of some of the technical impediments that some of the time-travel devices possessed. I had scored very high in terms of IQ, I was psychically gifted. In that era, it was very common for individuals working for the Executive Branch of government, the military, the Intelligence community to permit their children, or even to volunteer their children into these classified Defense projects. And so I was.

But in my case, there was a bit of a quantum complication, and that is: it looks like, ultimately, the reason that I was selected for Project Pegasus was because Project personnel in the future had identified me as a necessary participant, because they knew that I was destined to participate, remember what happened, memorialize what happened in writing (I’m writing those books now), and then be instrumental in being the bridge between what Project Pegasus achieved in the early 1970s, in terms of Applied Quantum Physics, and ultimate societal adoption of teleportation.

So it looks like, in a sense, there was a backward-chaining quantum loop that essentially necessitated my involvement because of what I was destined to achieve on the Project, and then later, with some of the Project technologies.

John B: How much, in your opinion, of what we’ve developed, here, in the United States with DARPA & so forth, was based on stuff that the Germans were doing back during WW2? They were really keen on time-travel & vortex engines & produced all kinds of technological breakthroughs – even Frank Whittle invented the jet engine at age 37, Ernst Heinkel was like a month later. And after that, Germany kind of took off & ran with it. And most of the stuff that we were flying around here, from the late 40s on up to the present, was really based on German designs. Then there’s the whole thing about Hans Kammler – he was looking over the time-travel project & Die Glocke, as well as producing nuclear weapons – they just discovered this big underground base in Austria. And he was behind all that... So, how much of our work was based on their work?

Andrew D Basiago: Honestly, I’d have to say very little. And I can cite a number of arguments to defend that position. I’ve read Joe Farrel’s excellent book on the Nazi Bell program, its clearly an essential part of the time-travel literature. But let me just cite some facts that I think will elucidate my position on this.

First, in his lengthy engineering career, my father worked with one Nazi Paperclip scientist, and that at was at C.F. Braun Inc in the early 1960s. And then when I was attached to DARPA’s Project Pegasus & we were involved literally in researching & developing time-travel, by the time that I was fully operationalized by 1970, as a 8 year-old going on age 9, DARPA had reduced the practice 8 modalities from conventional remote viewing all the way through four kinds of physical time-travel.

Now during those three years, I experienced 4 years of experience, because I was “looped” for the four summers, so I spent 3 extra months in New Mexico after teleporting there & then I was teleported back to New Jersey on the day I had left. So, I had actually experienced four years of Project activities in those 3 years – 1969 to 1972. And I met many of the Project principles & didn’t here a single German accent. So I thing if the Nazi Paperclip influence & the previous work done by the Nazi Germans was responsible for most of what the project was doing, I would have at least heard several German accents, and I didn’t hear a single German accent the entire time I was on the project.

John B: Unless they learned the American English dialect, maybe they were able to disguise their German accent.

Andrew D Basiago: Sure, I think they definitely had an input, but let me cite something else that I learned on the Project…There were Project principles, namely my father Raymond F Basiago, Dr Robert Beckwith who had just left General Electric on his to founding Beckwith Electric Co. in Florida – holder of 20 of the most advanced patents in electronic devices, and then, Carl “Jack” Pruitt. Jack Pruitt was a team leader on Project Pegasus, who has been identified by Nichols and Moon as the research director for the later time-travel project, Project Montauk.

Now, in different contexts, each of those three project principles cited the work of Nikola Tesla as being the primary input into what became Project Pegasus. So, I think I would emphasize Tesla, while others would emphasize a Nazi German input.

John B: That’s very interesting. Alright then, what did you mean by “looping”.

Andrew D Basiago: Ultimately, the Tesla Telaporter, which initially, I first jumped through that device of the Winter of 1968 as six-year-old with my dad. It was up at the old Curtiss-Wright Aeronautical Company facility in Woodridge, NJ. About 15 miles from my boyhood home in Morris Plains, New Jersey.

Initially, we were just making real time jumps via a vortal tunnel across the country into New Mexico. There was an identical device at the Sandia National Labs to get home, back to the tarmac at Curtiss-Wright.

So, we were doing real-time jumps. Obviously, it was very time urgent, but there was no off-set to the past or future upon arrival. But then, in the Fall of 1970, when I had already been jumping throughout the Summer of 1970, after that Summer, we noticed when we were arriving back in New Jersey that there was an off-set in time. So for example, we would jump to New Mexico through the vortal tunnel, pop in view in Santa Fe, be driven to Los Alamos or Albuquerque, or wherever. And then we spend the whole day there, even taking a late dinner at a Howard Johnson’s in Albuquerque and then be driven up by car to Sandia to jump home.

Sometimes, it was 8pm & 9 o’clock when we would jump through the device at Sandia, but when we hit the tarmac at Curtiss-Wright in New Jersey in Woodridge, it would be 10am or 11 o’clock in the morning. And so we asked them, “Well, you’re putting us back in time, aren’t you? How long can you put us back in time?” And they said, “12 hours.” And then, during the remaining several years that I was in the program, they lengthened that to several years.

And they also developed the ability to use the teleporter to put us forward in time. For example, by the Fall of 1971, the next year, my father & I went up on a Saturday morning to Curtiss-Wright & jumped through the device & I learned, much to my amazement, that it was the beginning of the Summer of 1973 when we arrived in New Mexico.

So what had ended-up happening is that in the Summer of 1970 we were just jumping back & forth in real time, but in the Summers of 1971, 1973 (accessed from the Fall of ’71), and then the Summer of 1972, I spent the entire Summer living away from my mother & siblings with my father in a rental house in New Mexico, engaged in Project activities, and then at the end of those Summers, when we jumped via teleportation from Sandia to Curtiss-Wright in New Jersey, we arrived back at the beginning of the Summer & experienced what I call “the second Summers” of those years.

Tesla's Vortal Teleportation

So, in that way, Vortal Teleportation derived from the works that Tesla left at his death in 1943 essentially became a means to achieve time-travel.

John B: So when you go into this… what did you call it… a Vor… what?

Andrew D Basiago: Well, the rated energy that was tuned in by the two elliptical armatures of the Tesla Teleporter – when we jumped through that field of radiant energy, which is a form of energy that Tesla discovered, that is latent & pervasive in the entire physical universe, and has among its characteristics the capacity to bend the fabric of time-space. We would jump through the middle of that curtain of light, our inertia would punch through the radiant energy so that it would extrude a tunnel into the fabric of time-space itself.

Imagine a child blowing a soap bubble & then a bumble bee goes inside the tunnel that is created. And in that way, because the radiant energy can literally “slice open” time-space, we were traveling through the interstitial chasm in time space – the corridor – that our inertia pressed against that field of radiant of energy created. And then, when that tunnel would close, that’s where we would find “footfall” at our destination.

John B: Wow, so you’re just at this place, I presume that it’s a room, cuz it says “jump room”, and there are these two elliptical armatures, and you & your dad go together or one-at-a-time?

Andrew D Basiago: Actually, the “jump room” was a later device we were using to get to Mars in the 1980s. The room that we were in was simply a room about the size of a high school classroom at Curtiss-Wright. In fact, it was at Building 68 at Curtiss-Wright Aeronautical in Woodridge NJ. And there were two gray elliptical-shaped booms in the front of the room. They were about 8 feet high & about 10 feet apart from each other on the ground. They were like a pair of parentheses. The concave side was directed toward the other concave side, and they would broadcast this shimmering curtain of radiant energy, which is a form of light. So that if we stood 10 feet back it looked like water falling into a public sculpture. But then if we went, let’s say, a foot up to the radiant energy, definitely we didn’t want to touch it, it looked like a black & white raster on a television set – kind of a snow pattern. So my dad explained that he was going take my hand & we were going to run through that field of radiant energy & find ourselves in a kind of tunnel. And then we would see light at the end of the tunnel, and when that light would suddenly hit our face, we find “footfall” on a hillside several thousand miles across the country. And, in fact, the location during all these jumps from New Jersey was Santa Fe, New Mexico, in fact, the State Capitol grounds in Santa Fe because that was a place where strangers were expected to be seen, children might be on school field trips. And also, if your listeners have an opportunity to visit that beautiful State Capitol complex, including the Round House – their 360 degree State Capitol facility. Its really a hodgepodge of buildings & foliage & also buildings from different eras, there’s a lot of oblique corners throughout that whole grounds. So if we suddenly popped into view, it was very rare that somebody see us arrive via teleportation from New Jersey.

John B: So, you just show up kind of like a Star Trek episode, you just kind of shimmer in & shimmer out. Or, do you just ‘bump’ – you’re all there, suddenly?

Andrew D Basiago: No, one time a gentleman – sort of an Andre Segovia type – a 70 year-old man smoking a pipe with a pale-blue shirt & a red cravat saw me appear right in front of him, in front of the Bataan Memorial Building & his pipe actually dropped out of his mouth. Because what happened is, we just popped into view. We sort of slipped into that time. In other words, if you were standing there with some of the other children in the program were coming through the teleporter, you would suddenly see them not appear in a static way, but appear as if they had been running & leapt into that location. So there would be a little bit of a displacement on the receiving end.

John B: What did it feel like, Andy, I mean…

Andrew D Basiago: It was a very odd sensation. I was a courageous kid, but was very cautious. I was raised by strict Roman Catholic parents. I went through a whole religious training, in addition to attending a public school there in New Jersey. And so, I was kid that could take care of myself, as well as being fairly brave. I was not a risk taker.

So, I always kind of got keyed-up when we jumped through the field of energy at Curtiss-Wright or at Sandia on the way home. Because it seemed to be a very dangerous enterprise. What we found ourselves in a big blue-ish white tunnel that we seemed to be traveling through at about 10,000 miles per hour. Imagine, if you illuminate the Lincoln Tunnel in NYC with aquamarine-blue klieg lights , and you’re traveling through it at this super-sonic speed. Other times, like if I looked down, or looked up myself, it seemed that the tunnel was rushing past us. So, there was this sort of relativistic trade-off that was going on. There didn’t seem to be any bottom, and that was somewhat terrifying. We were levitated. And the electrostatic discharge inside the tunnel would make peoples’ hair to start floating around. Sometimes, the children would actually begin turning their position like they would in the “barrel dropout” in some of these amusement park rides where you lose the bottom of the device as they use centripetal force to suspend you in space.

So it was a mix of sensations. When I would arrive, I would often smell a brief whiff of ozone, I would sometimes be feverish with an elevated heart rate. And one of the major side-effects which we certainly felt as soon as we arrived at our destination was profound dehydration. The teleporter was prompting massive bodily dehydration. So that one time, I attended a lecture after arriving, and the children in front of me at the water fountain, one of them actually pulled one of the other children away from the water fountain to drink and to slake her thirst.

So however that fell together with the laws of physics, that was essentially the sensation – that sort of head-rush of a rapid travel through an illuminated tunnel, followed by a kind of a sense of disease, a feverish sensation, a smell of ozone, an elevated heart rate & apparently blood pressure, as we then normalized into the normal quantum environment, found “footfall” at our destination.

John B: How do they keep a kid quiet like this – I mean, nobody talked. How do they keep projects like this from being talked about?

Andrew D Basiago: Well, they learned a lot during World War II & the Korean War about brainwashing & about making people adhere to authority. Initially, when we were being trained in 1969-70, which for me was my 3rd grade year, they put us with this beautiful, compassionate, wonderfully maternal, special educator by the name of Elaine Gallagher.

Scene from The Manchurian Candidate

I almost got the opportunity to interview her, she passed away from cancer right after I found that she was still teaching at my elementary school. She was my special educator in the learning lab at my elementary school. And she explained to us that in the program, in Project Pegasus, we were going to be shown ways of using our mind so that we could achieve the summit of human experience. We could become… and then she mentioned the three things that I might very well become during my lifetime… basically, an astronaut, a famous writer, and a national leader – she actually referenced the Presidency, which I’m going to be pursuing in 2016.

And she butted us up about how we were going to receive this specialized training…we were privileged to do so & we shouldn’t talk about it to the other children. Because if we did, they would be jealous, their feeling would be hurt that they weren’t involved, they weren’t special.

So we got all of this “special-ness” training from Elaine. And then on the day of that lecture, while returning home, this odd young man ran up to the curtilage of my school grounds, as I was crossing it on my way home, and threatened me & threatened the life of my family & my mother if I ever I told anybody about what I was going to be doing in Project Pegasus.

Then, before they actually sent us down the rabbit hole of Applied Quantum Physics, they took us to the Morristown Army Arsenal, in Morristown, NJ., and we were involved in this game – I can’t call it a game – it was actually a sadistic enterprise, it was actually a form of torture of children, in which we were seated at metal desks, with our ankle attached to the desk. And the rules of the ‘game’ essentialy were that when a siren & a blue spiraling light came on at another child’s desk, we had to shock that child with a red button at our console or we would be shocked. And in fact, there was a description of this form of subversive therapy in a book called “Secret Weapons” by Jill & Cheryl Hersha. The Hersha sisters may very well have been in the very session that I was in there at the Arsenal.

Another thing they did besides sort of knowing that we were expected to do what we were told, that we were in a military context, where we might be tortured again like this if we disobeyed, is that they did one level of mind control in the sense that we selected an alternate first name. I selected the Michael because it was the name of one of my good friends in class. And we were known by that name whenever we did anything Project related… so, if we were taken to Curtiss-Wright, if we were taken to ITT Defense Communications, if we were taken up or picked to the Arsenal for some kind of activity, we were not known by the name that we’d been given at birth, we were known by an alternate first name. And in that way, they calved-off our Project experiences in our mind so they seemed to have occurred to that sort of alternate personality.

But they were also using medications, drugs & hypnosis when we entered the learning lab & then when we inter-completed our activities that afternoon, or arrived back at the learning lab from one of these Defense technical locations, where we were introduced to time-travel. So, it was a sort of a mix of drugging, hypnosis, special education, special-ness training, but then also limited forms of torture that certainly today would not qualify as legal under the Torture Convention.

John B: This is pretty amazing stuff. Now, let me ask you this: why are you putting yourself out on the clothesline like this? Tell us about your Truth Campaign.

Andrew D Basiago: Well, I reach age 40 in the year 2001. And around that age 39-40, I kind of took stock that I was the age of John Lennon at the time of his assassination. And I thought of all the things that John Lennon accomplished by age 40 – with his music, with his peace activism, with his raising of human consciousness, and I asked myself what I had accomplished & what I could give during my lifetime that would leave some sort of positive legacy, as he did at the time of his assassination.

And so, I really did some soul searching during that period. I was sort of impeded in my career at that time, and sometimes when you don’t move forward creatively, academically, professionally, bright people, like I, tend to get stuck a bit & do a lot of soul searching, a lot of rumination. So, I was in somewhat of an impeded period of my career, and in the time frame, doing that soul searching, I thought, “Well, wait a minute, I was in something that was extremely important & singular. I was involved in literally revolutionary technical activities.”

Then I began to think more about what had happened & catalogue what happened, I remembered conversations that I had with my father more than 10 years prior to his death. How he had sat me down & instructed me that when his toes curled up, as he put it, and he was no longer around, that I should convene a family meeting & tell everybody what everything that happened. And he said, “When you bring the other members of the family into what we experienced together, because what we did was great. We were involved in really epochal set of human activities & something very important, to the technical history of the country.” He analogized it to the Wright Brothers achieving flight at Kitty Hawk in 1903. He said, “I then want you to tell the entire world.”

I said, “Why, dad, why after all this time?” And he said, “Well, because look, the people of our planet may very well be needing these technologies & if they’re going to be able to use them, they’re going to have to know that they exist. So, its going to take you a few years to put everything together, but son, I think this is what you should do. I think that you should make it your work to put all the facts together & tell the world what Project Pegasus achieved.”

But there were many delay factors there, because I was operating under the influence of the original attempt to block my memories. I was able to go back & remember everything. But clearly the message had been put in my mind ‘not to talk’. And I had the admonishment from my dad to move forward & ultimately become the revealer of what happened. And ultimately that became my life’s work. I’ve spent thousands of hours since 2000 involved in both indirect & direct investigations. I’ve gone on three major fact finding trips to New Mexico. I’ve interviewed dozens of people, I’ve gotten corroborating testimony from 12 people who were in the Project, whose accounts I will provide in my book. I essentially proved that Project Pegasus existed, that it involved time-travel technologies, and that I was in it. In fact, I got confirmation of that from an emissary that had been sent to meet me Southwest Colorado from the Executive Office of the President, namely the Executive Office of George W Bush, corroborated or confirmed that I was not delusional, but in fact, was remembering a real project that I was really in.

So I made it my life’s work to bring this information forward. Because at a minimum, we’re going to be needing the Tesla Teleportation Technology to achieve planetary sustainability in the 21st Century. So, ultimately I would develop an understanding that I was under a moral duty to bring this information forward just so I could improve human options & make a contribution to civilization while I’m here.

John B: Well, the time-travel & so forth is going back to the 60s with the “Time Tunnel” & the teleportation techniques used on “Star Trek”, and all that. Its one thing if you’re watching it on TV – its kind of an amusement, but its another thing when it turns out to be real. Do you find that people are receptive to this information, or do they just roll their eyes & walk off?

Andrew D Basiago: Actually, I’m getting about 2 out of 3 of every group of listeners. Those who do not believe me tend to follow the psychology when we were on the Project & we were admonished not to tell. Namely, people will believe either that you are lying, or you’re crazy, or they were become strangely resentful because they were not involved.

Now of the other two-thirds, people appreciate the detail that I am bringing, my sincerity, the fact that I’ve been consistent, perhaps, over one hundred interviews on television & radio, that I’m naming names, and describing the technologies, and sharing the kinds of experiences that the technologies prompted.

There is a strong group of skeptics, but I say to them, “Look, during the cold war, even to this day, the United States government has had trillions of dollars of black budgeted funding, conditions of relative absolute secrecy, some of the brightest physicists & electrical engineers in the world, and the entire State of New Mexico, to be involved in Defense technical activities, that we all know, just based on common sense, have gone far beyond building the next best generation of nuclear warheads.

As somebody who participated in two of those projects, coming forward & saying, “this is some of the things that we were doing in the ‘black realm’.

You know, Rumsfeld announced the day before 911 that 2.3 trillion dollars of Pentagon funding had gone missing. So, if the Pentagon & the DOD can lose that much money, imagine what they can spend over 40 years to achieve something like time-travel. The true history of the United States is that the very physicists who brought us the atomic bomb brought us time-travel. And that 25 years after Tesla’s death, we were utilizing his Teleportation technology to teleport human beings across the country without injury, and even ultimately by the Fall of 1970, with a displacement of, initially, hours, and then days, & weeks, & months & years into the past & future. That is the true history of this country and that’s another reason why I’ve come forward, because it was Jefferson who said that our democracy is dependent on an enlightened citizenry. And our citizenry can only vote with the best interest of the country, and can only be governed legitimately when the citizenry is aware of what our government has achieved in these advanced areas of applied science.

John B: Why is this time-travel thing important. What’s the idea, what’s the objective, is it to be able to go back & change things so that when they come back forward things are than when they left. Or, is it as in “Back to the Future” – like don’t do anything, don’t talk to anybody – nothing… Anything that you do or say in this particular realm could effect events in the future. I mean, did they think this out, or is the same deal as, “I’m not sure that the chain reaction will stop with the Uranium… it might go on & involve the entire known reality… I mean, let’s get a little bit crazy with it & see if we can do this without ripping an enormous hole in the fabric time & destroying the Earth & all known reality along with it.

Andrew D Basiago: Actually, there were more discreet historical motives that were the catalysts for the time-travel program. Essentially they weren’t just tinkering, or trying to play god. In fact, the consensus on the program was that “we shouldn’t play god & try to quantum engineer to change past events or future events. In fact, you can’t change past events, because when you go to a past event to change it, you’re in the original event that you’re trying to change. At most, you can go back in time & give somebody information. But if you’re going to, you did.

So time-travel is somewhat limited to literally change the past & shift humanity onto a new timeline. The complication with the future is that if you learn of a future event… let’s say if you one of these electrical-optical devices that provide holographic images of past & future events… if you see some event in the future that you then try to change, you‘re also limited in changing it, because when you go through the machinations after you sample the future to try to change it, what you’ve sampled is the net result of all the causes that preceded it. So you actually are looking at what ultimately results.

And that may have been the frustration whereby they had footage of one of the planes hitting one of the twin towers on September 11 of 2001 & they endeavored to change it. I mean, FBI agent John O’Neil moved into the twin towers to head an effort to head it off as an event. But they did not succeed, because what they had seen with their forward intelligence via time-travel was the event happening.

So, knowing that, they decided to just use the information gathered by visiting the past of future, or rendering a remote holographic image of the past or future event to engage in contingency planning for present & future events.

Now, the other over-arching concern went back to the origins of the Program itself, which was the famous July 1952 over-flight of Washington DC by nine UFOs, or to say, Extraterrestrial craft, clocked at traveling at 7,000 miles per hour by Langley Air Force Base.

We noted that not only were those ships moving around very rapidly in the sky at 7,000 miles per hour, but they were blinking off & then winking on. They were literally teleporting & moving around arbitrarily in the airspace above our nation’s capitol.

John B: This was in 52?

Andrew D Basiago: Right. That was the famous July 1952 over-flight of UFOs that was published on the front page of the Washington Post & the New York Times. Yes that was almost the culmination of the ’47 [UFO] flap & then that lead to really… Although, Roswell alarmed the government, that really galvanized the government into launching a set of conventional & unconventional aerospace projects.

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTZ7O9cfpPQ

In the case of my father, he had been working at Okenite in Paramus, NJ & a bird colonel showed up at his desk & ordered him to report to Curtiss-Wright to work on the Ramjet engine, the Ramjet being one of the advanced planes that was going to be used to chase the Extraterrestrial craft out of atmosphere in the near-Earth environment.

Then of course, we had the enabling legislation for NASA in ’58, orignally NASA being NARA. So, there was always an extraterrestrial prompting to the search for fast planes, a space capability, and then also, the secret component of that – and that, indeed, may have been the “do the other things” that President Kennedy talked about during his famous Rice University speech of September 12 of 1962 – “We choose to go to the Moon, and do the other things, not because they’re easy, but because they’re hard.”

Well, the “other things” involved, not just aircraft & space capsules, they involved achieving different forms of teleportation, initially, to enable us to have same technical capabilities as our extraterrestrial visitors. We didn’t know where they were from, we didn’t know what they wanted, they were a profound potential threat.

And so, initially, the time-space program, as a branch of the atomic research community – it being in possession of Tesla's papers, from the time of the National Archive sent Tesla’s papers to the Los Alamos Scientific Laboratory in 1944, when they were designing & building the atomic bomb there, until ultimately Lano, under DARPA, achieved teleportation by the mid-‘60s. That was essentially the origin. It was an emergency program undertaken in response of the extraterrestrial presence. But then, as they began to realize that this would give us literally a quantum intelligence capability. They began to philosophize inside the government – I’m sure they had think tanks with all manner of academics involved & so forth – scientists, philosophers. And, they realized there were impediments to using information gathered to change reality, so they made a decision… and, I think it was the right decision, to just use it to engage in contingency planning to try to work the best possible outcome without literally directing what they outcome should be.

John B: Okay, let’s recapitulate here for a second… So, if you go back in time… let’s say you want to keep Daisy Mae from getting hit by the dump truck two weeks from now. But you just saw her get hit & you go, “Oh, that’s Daisy Mae, I got to get in my time tunnel & I got to go back & fix this, I got to sing out or something.” You can’t really change a past event?

Andrew D Basiago: Well, let’s say you were the farmer that owned Daisy Mae. Let’s say you were 35 years-old when it happened & you went back at 45. The way that time-travel really works is when you make that trip, you can make that trip & you can be there when Daisy Mae, your beloved cow dies. But you don’t become your 35 year-old self, witnessing & having the opportunity to prevent Daisy Mae’s untimely demise.

At best, if you go where you & Daisy Mae were when you were 35, you will visit yourself as 45 year old. So you could go back in time & advise somebody about an event, such as a tragic or unfortunate event that you wish to change. But you don’t become yourself, you visit yourself. That’s really what its like. Now, if you do that, since you can do that, you can even do that via a Tesla Teleportation. In fact, if you that jump before 1968, you’re going to strand yourself there.

But, if it was a worthy enough emergency or catastrophe to prevent, clearly we would try to do so. In fact, we probably have done so. But at best, you can just be essentially a messenger.

John B: Like this, you’d walk up & go, “Hey Andy.” And he goes, “Who the hell are you.” And, you go, “I’m you, just never mind. You’re involved in a project, you’ll find out about it later. That cow is fixing to get whacked out. You better do something about it, according to my calculations you have about a minute.”

Andrew D Basiago: Now, here’s the paradox of that, John. I call it the “Kill Hitler” paradox. If you go back & save your cow, clearly in the future, you would have a memory of going back & saving your cow. And that prompt the trip. But, in ordinary terms, since you saved your cow, what would provide, from the past, the motive & the awareness to make the trip when you’re older. So for example, knowing about Hitler’s terrible impact on human history, if you went back in time via time-travel to kill Hitler when he was still a postcard painter in Vienna, and you succeeded. And he didn’t found the Nazi Party & he didn’t become the Fuhrer & didn’t become the terrible force on world history that he became. How would you know about him & why would you have the motive kill him if you successfully killed him before he rose to power. Because after all, the trip when you make when you’re older, is already deeply embedded in the past – Why? Because the past was visited by you from the future.

Science fiction has made us believe, let’s say a film like “Dead Again”, although that involved reincarnation. But there’s always that science fiction premise where you can go back & literally retool & re-tinker with the past & bring about a different past. And its always portrayed as you going back to sort of interact with the past, again, as if there’s second present that you can visit from the future in the past. In fact, there isn’t. There’s only the original present that present when the past was the past.

John B: So, the past has already been built & you really can’t change anything.

Andrew D Basiago: Or, you can visit it, but if you visit it, the past already includes your visit.

John B: Oh, Lord.

Andrew D Basiago: You really have to get involved in this with your feet & do it as I did to really Grok this.

John B: Did you say ‘Grok’?

Andrew D Basiago: Yeah, Grok.

John B: I like that. "Stranger in a Strange Land" – I love it.

Andrew D Basiago: Exactly, that is the reality of time-travel. I get letters every week…
Please help me time-travel so I can go back & save my late wife from cancer, my child dying in a car accident, and so forth.

And I say, “Well, in your past, were you ever visited by an older version of your past? And they come back & say, “Frankly, no I wasn’t.” And I said, “Well, that means that your visit from the future is not deeply embedded in your past. And, therefore that means that you’re destine to never time-travel, and go back & improve the conditions, or prevent the event that you want to, to change the past & save your loved one.”

So, that was the limit to changing the past. The limit to the future was: whatever reading they got of the future, at a particular time – I call this the “Snapshot Effect”, if they went forward in time, as I believe they did in the ‘70s, and they saw that on January 20th of 2009 an African-American who gave his name Barack Hussein Obama was taking the Oath of Office as President. When you take that “Snapshot”, either by putting a time-traveler right there in the audience, or in front of a television set that’s broadcasting it Live, or even if you just remotely use a Chronovisor to capture a moving holographic image of that future event. Whatever you’re capturing during that ‘snapshot’ is what is going to happen at that instant in the future.

So people ask, “Does that mean its destined?” Well, its destined in the sense that it’s the result of all the previous causes. But, the thing is, its not destined in the sense that we do utilize our ‘free will’ in a deterministic universe to create those cause or contribute to the net causality that ultimately leads to a future outcome, like let’s say, in this example, the election of Obama in ’08 & his swearing in ’09.

So, they knew whatever they did to try to change a future event, it didn’t suddenly change their reading – it cohered with their original reading of that ‘snapshot’ in the future, because all of the causes before the reading & after the reading that occurred before the event, can be viewed as causes or potential causes of the future event. So, in that way, they didn’t have a hand-hold on a future event to dis-positively & concretely change it, because whatever they saw as resulting in the future was the net result of all previous causes.

John B: So, this Tom Crusise movie – “Day After Tomorrow” or something like that – he keeps getting killed, this woman keeps shooting him, which keeps sending him back, he keeps trying to fix something – so they just reset it. There’s another picture called “Looper” – you might have seen that one, with a bomb on the train, and all that.

Andrew D Basiago: The problem is that, although, ultimately it may be circular, or maybe a sort of Mobius Loop, time is linear in the sense that causality & sequentiality are. So, I know, for example, that we end this interview, I’m going to have lunch. I’m not going to have lunch before the interview, because it wasn’t timed to have lunch when we started.

Okay, so ultimately the line itself that makes up time-space could be circular & even with the “Big Bang” the Universe may collapse & then repeat itself, so that you could have multiple iterations of the same person’s life – not by reincarnation, by leaving the system & coming back – but literally in the same lifetime. That is not the case, because time is linear & sequential. So, when you’re trying to go back to the past, you’re trying to effect an embedded reality, where you already have a collapse of the wave function, in terms of quantum mechanics, and all you can do is become part of that event, as you originally did. And with the future, again, you’re just seeing the ultimate outcome. So, what they decided to do was just study the past & future.

Even studying the past gave them better intelligence to make decisions about the present – let’s say, Defense decisions, because maybe they knew something more about the locale of an area of where we’re going to have to put military forces, etc. So, they just decided to use ‘quantum access’, as I call it, which is sending a person to a past or a future place – I call them “time places” via time-travel – or generating, propagating, a remote image of a past or future “time place”. They just decided to use quantum access to enhance the intelligence function, but not to play god & literally change the direction of human history.

That also had practical constraints. Like, let’s say, you’re going to decide to prevent a plane crash of a friend of the President. Well, how many plane crashes do you prevent? Do you suddenly have a bureau of time-space bureaucrats that would record every plane flight in the future & cancel all those flights? If you were to save, let’s say, a celebrity, like a Frank Sinatra – you know, a friend of Kennedy & Nixon – would you save all the other friends of President Kennedy & President Nixon? Would you save all the other illustrious entertainers?

They realized that if they began to get seriously involved in ‘quantum engineering’, there would be no end to how much interference in the past & future would ultimately have to be engaged in – they decided to just scrap that & not do that.

John B: Yes, there’d just be no end to it, because there would be so many other things.

Mobius Loop

Andrew D Basiago: Right, the snake would eat the tail, then the snake would begin eating itself. And, this is the reason I don’t support mass time-travel. I would say, mass-time-travel by mass-people on mass-timelines would create mass-chaos.

So, they realized that they had to kind of be strategic in how often that they interfered in a timeline just by sending somebody there. And they decided not to play god.

John B: Was Einstein correct? Is time & distance related in the way that produced his E = mc2?

Andrew D Basiago: Time is analogous to distance. So that if you’re going to reduce it to mathematics or physics, you could say time = distance. And let me give an example of not only of that, but why time, in fact, is the 1st dimension & space, with its three dimensions, is actually the 2nd dimension. Imagine, you had your back to the wall at the beginning of the Universe, you existed, whatever fundament the Universe came out existed as a wall & you literally had your back to it.

If time didn’t exist before space, could you take one step forward into space?

John B: No.

Andrew D Basiago: You’re right, but why? Its kind of inscrutable, but its elegantly simple when we consider it. The reason is that you wouldn’t have the time to do so. You would be frozen there with your being-ness, your being. You’d be in a reality & it would be essentially a spatial reality. But if you didn’t have time under-girding that spatial reality and existing “aban-issue”, in other words, time being the primary dimension, and space – a ramification of time, you wouldn’t have the time, the potential elapse time to articulate space. Because space can only be articulated when its traveled in, when you experience distance. So time, we say that time = distance, but actually time = the articulation of distance. Its almost like saying the difference between the time that we live, the time that changes things in the Universe, that allows us to explore & articulate space & the time we speak of referentially on our watches.

So, time equals, basically, the experience of distance. It equals the elapsing of space, to create a Buckminster Fuller-ism.

John B: That’s very interesting because that certainly validates the existence of zero as, Zero does not mean ‘nothing’, it just means ‘zero’.

Andrew D Basiago: Right. If I had my back to that wall & I had time & space, I could decide not to step forward & that would be ‘Zero’. I could decide to step one step forward & that would be ‘1’, but if didn’t have time occurring before space, I would have the null set.

John B: And ‘Zero’ would not exist at that point.

Andrew D Basiago: ‘Zero’ would not exist. And any kind of plenitude, any kind of – so unity & multiplicity would not exist, just nullity would exist.

John B: Now, somebody out there is saying, “You put the bong away!” But this is really a beautiful thing, I just love this.

(To be Continued)