Re: Astrology & Health

>Hey Cletis! If you had studied astrology (had an informed
>opinion) you would know that what the writer is saying is
>that the Sun and Venus (in sextile, trine or conjunction)
>in ones Natal Chart has a profound influence on one's
>health.

Well.... in case you missed it I think it's been made clear that I am not very knowledgeable about Astrology. What I am knowledgeable about is mathematics and physics(which includes orbital mechanics and the universal law of gravitation). And these pursuits have taught me that there is a very definite way to go about acquiring and verifying information. Why is it that every time I try to educate myself about this field (in good faith) all I get offered as evidence is smoke and BS?
Science is the systemization of curiosity. :)

>The writer is *not* saying that one can 'cure cancer with >astrology'! ha.

Looks pretty clear to me as though the author is saying people with this proclivity have an advantage manifested as a superior ability to check cancer. The allusion is that a proper reckoning and implementing of "the signs" can assist you in defeating cancer. That's BS. It's an extraordinary claim and is standard procedure to request verification of an extraordinary claim. I could claim that the creator is a purple unicorn that exists in 11 spatial dimensions and 2 dimensions of time. Would you believe my extraordinary claim w/out any evidence? If not I have bridge in NYC I'd like to sell you.

>If what I just said makes no sense to you...well, that >just shows that you have never checked out your natal >chart and haven't investigated, researched or studied >astrology.

As I indicated... I don’t' know much about Astrology. But what I DO know is that it isn't possible for the vast majority of the claims made by astrologers to be true at the same time certain physical phenomena are true. When you then decide to discount Science as "untrue" you do the absurd and deny things like your car or TV are capable of working.
Issac Newton did more for the world than Jesus Christ ever did. And curiously I don't find any major scientific contributions from Astrologers. Kepler was an Astronomer of the 1st rank. He eeked out a living as an Astrologer but never believed any of it himself. (Look into Kepler's 3 laws of planetary motion. Also the "music of the spheres" is attributed to him.)

>*Hey...about 'beliefs'...in The Holographic Universe you >can read about a whole slew of experiments that deal with >stuff 'scientists' are afraid of...the Non-Linear.

Excellent. Non Linear dynamics is my specialty. With all haste... explain the Non linear to me. What does it mean for a system to be non linear? How does that fit in with Astrology?

>Fact is...Beliefs influence everything!

Nonsense. I gave you a concrete example where a ferverently held and persistent belief had nothing to do with the way things actually are. (You never prove by example you only disprove by example). So there is proof that your belief isn't true.

>You'll have to check out the scientific experiments done

This is the point. I can't find anything but conjecture and inference. I haven't been able to find a SINGLE credible scientific study that provides ANY hard statistical evidence. If what you contend is true then it should be a small matter to rigorously verify it(trivial almost). This rigorous verification doesn't (so far anyway) seem to exist.

>by curious scientists where the outcome of an experiment >is changed by the scientists belief or desire for a >certain outcome.

This is nonsense. 1 of the pillars of scientific thought (see the scientific method) is "reproducibility". If Science was done as you suggest then no one would have any idea what was going on as you could always fall back on this nonsense that your thoughts changed the outcome. If what you say is true why would you expect any consistency in any experiment at any time?
I agree that belief can be very powerful. But it can't cure you of AIDS or change the orbit of the moon. Now you may BELIEVE you've been cured of Aids or perturbed the moons orbit... that's different than actually doing it.
And you've just contradicted yourself saying "look at the science" when in the sentence before it you claim thinking hard about an experiment can change it. If that is the case why isn't the Library of Congress overflowing with rigorous evidence for Astrology that you contend could be conjured up at any time just by thinking about it. If that were the case why would there need to be any serious inquiries about anything?
Why would the Quantum Chromo Dynamic particle physics types not think themselves into a unified field theory? They could change the outcome of their experiments and verify any theory they pleased. Why dont' they do that?

>Fascinating stuff. To truly understand astrology and how >it works...that book is a good place to start even though >it doesn't talk about astrology at all...

Wrong. The way to truly understand Astrology is to test how well it explains what we see and how well it predicts the future. Science isn't just to explain what has been seen. It is also to forecast what will come. The validity of a theory can be tested by how true it's predictions meet with experiment. Astrology has NO such correlation. Its predictive value is worthless. And being so heavily couched in metaphor it is no difficult matter to fit your scenario to the "prediction" offered by the Sunday newspage.
If you want to *believe* astrology.... that is your business and certainly none of mine. But don’t' for a second think that you can say "I believe this so it must be true". That's the kind of rationale I expect from my kids around Christmas time. (The persistent belief in Santa Claus doesn't make him exist any more than the persistent belief the earth is flat makes the earth flat.)
What I am seeking is evidence. So far... there is none. Sure there are books that *talk* about verification but I never actually see any that would pass the muster of freshman physics/stats. If it's "true" then why am I having such difficulty finding stats?
But I am a man of my word and if I do find any credible evidence in the books you suggest (which I have NOT read yet) I will be the first to come back to this forum and state your correctness.

>You wouldn't happen to be an Air sign (gemini, libra, >aquarius) with Mercury and Saturn conjunct your Sun would >you?

No. From the little I've picked up so far I think I am a "fire" sign. And speaking of Mercury can you use Astrology to explain the perihelion of Mercury's orbit?
According to you there isn't any reason it can't. Please do so.

 

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