Another selfish argument 
#64810
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Original Hulda Clark
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I have no problem with abortions, but if women want full automomy over their bodies they should also be willing to take full responsibility. And by that I mean take full financial responsibility for their decision - they don't ask us for permission to abort so they shouldn't ask for money when they bear the child.
Full power = full responsibility
Though if you are the father and you start taking care of the child, you cannot stop.- Re: Another selfish argument Atalanta
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This is a reply to # 710,989but if women want full automomy over their bodies they should also be willing to take full responsibility.
As far as I know, guys don't have to pay child support unless the baby is born and viable. Therefore it's not the women's body anymore but a child. Never heard of fetus support, have you?
Is that the situation you are in? Don't want to pay child support? Most guys make me sick.- Re: Another selfish argument #64810
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This is a reply to # 710,990Me, no way. But you want full autonomy but you don't want to pay for you decisons. How autonomous is that. So if you wnat to have a child it's not the guys decision so he shouldn have to pay for it. If you want the guy to pay, they you should be willing to give up full control of your body. 'sides i never said I was aguy, just maybe I;m an enlightened woman.- Re: Another selfish argument Atalanta
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”I was surprised by the effectiveness of it, and I wasn’t hungry.”
You are anything but enlightened.
If the couple is having sex and has not talked about the possibility of being pregnent, then they are stupid and they should both pay for their stupidity, not just the woman.
I doubt you are a woman, since you'd know what ass holes most guys are but you wouldn't seem to mind if they were even more. There are enough guys that don't pay child support, why would you want to produce more?
And again, it's child support, for the child, not necessarily the mother. Your argument has no backbone.
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- Re: Another selfish argument muad_dib
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Lots more deadbeat dads statistically but they are plenty of bad moms out there. I know of someone who had a child with a woman and they were supposed to be married, and then the mom decided she didn't want the guy around anymore and filed a rape charge while filing for child support. I think the point that the other person was trying to make was that if women want reproductive autonomy, there's an issue of the father's reproductive rights as well going either way. It's a hazy area because if he doesn't want it and she does, she's likely to still have the child and he'll pay till she' 18. If he does and she doesn't, she's likely have an abortion no matter what he feels. It's a tough issue to tackle, and it's hard to think of an obvious solution. I'm all for women having the option of abortion, but this is an issue that's not talked about a lot.- Re: Another selfish argument Atalanta
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This is a reply to # 710,993It's a hazy area because if he doesn't want it and she does, she's likely to still have the child and he'll pay till she' 18. If he does and she doesn't, she's likely have an abortion no matter what he feels. It's a tough issue to tackle, and it's hard to think of an obvious solution.
I know what they were trying to say, I just don't think it's that hazy, hard, and complicated.
I think the system is fine and men should have to pay for child support. Yes I know some women are crule and will do anything,p oke holes through condoms and such just to get Pregnant but I still think the guy should think twice before having sex. I've met far too many guys that are just out there to get some, and if their duties as fathers were to be illiminated they would be even freer to get some however they wanted.
I said before if a couple has sex, they should talk about for what they would do if they became pregnant. If the boy does not want a child he should make sure the woman and him are on the same page. If they are a loving honest couple they should have no problem. the ones that have problem with support are the ones who are dishonest, and cheating. I'm not saying it's always the male, but usually it is.
Unfortunately biology made women have to get pregnent, believe I would love to see men being pregnent, but that's jsut the way it is. So yes I believe women should be able to do anything with her body, since it's HERS!! The child is only the man's once it's born, and yes he should most definitely be held responsible, if he wanted it or not.
- Re: Another selfish argument TheCorinthian
19 y
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This is a reply to # 710,994Advertisement
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”I was surprised by the effectiveness of it, and I wasn’t hungry.”
I don't fully support this positon, but I can see the logic of the argument - it has some valid points. So I will argue for it.
The women should take full responsibility for their actions, espcially since they want complete control of their bodies. "They" do not get pregnant, only the woman does. Not only does pregancy threaten her life, but it is also a huge drain of her resources, so she should have control - no question.
To quote Stan Lee "With great power comes great responsibility", and in this case, with absolute power then they should also take absolute reponsibility. Should a guy pay for a decision he had no power in making.
It would be nice if people were responsible enough, to have a discussion before hand, but come'n that rarely happens. Maybe when women turn 18 they should decide what they want in case they find themselves in such a situation. Sign a legally binding contract that they sign off some of her reproductive rights for financial support should they ever find themselves in such a situation. Same for men. Crazy idea I know.
Though if you are the father and you start taking care of the child, you cannot stop.
If you start you are fully obligated to continue. It is unfair to a child to remove support once it has begun, its abandonement.
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- Re: Another selfish argument Atalanta
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This is a reply to # 710,996The contract I can agree with. Not in the case of the women signing off reproductive rights, but if there is a contract between them saying that the man does not have to pay for child support if they get pregnant and they both agree then I think it's fine.
To just ammend the rules and say men don't have to take any responsiility is ridiculous.- Re: Another selfish argument TheCorinthian
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This is a reply to # 711,002
You want it both ways, full power only partial financial risk. Take full financial responsibility for the power you wield. You can't consider yourself autonomous during pregnacy but a dependent afterwards.
I understand the opposition as the implications of such a fair and reasonable system would have negative social impact. Since this is a strictly intellectual exercise the point is moot.- Re: Another selfish argument Atalanta
19 y
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This is a reply to # 711,005If it's in my body I expect to ahve full power over it, how could I not?
But ok lets say that the man gets half the right of the fetus What's that mean?
What happens if I want an abortion he dosen't? then it's 50% 50% who get's to decide?
Also does he say what I can/cannot eat. What I can cannot do (excercise, physical work ect)
I just don't get how it would work for someone to own half of somehting that's in you.
- Re: Another selfish argument Atalanta
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- Re: Another selfish argument anonymousjane_01
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This is a reply to # 711,002Advertisement
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”I was surprised by the effectiveness of it, and I wasn’t hungry.”
Yes. Or...the woman, if she wants to have an abortion, SHOULD ask the man if he wants to keep it. He might want to raise the child himself. (Remember half of the baby's genes are his)
Women want to have full choice for an abortion, but when they have a child they want child support. If the man can't have a say in terminating a pregnancy that THEY BOTH CREATED---NOT JUST THE WOMAN--then men shouldn't have to pay for child support after/if they break up.
I am a woman and that might sound unfair, but we, as a country, need to realize that as men and women get more rights, then men should not be held to a double standard like we women complain about.
I believe in pro-choice under circumstances that a woman couldn't really have a say in; such as rape, incest, mother's life in danger, or some other horrible tramatic experience. But the MAJORITY(95%) of abortions are performed on live, viable fetuses that will grow to a baby, then a child, then an adult.
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:) AnonymousJane_01Advertisement
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- Re: Another selfish argument Atalanta
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This is a reply to # 711,011Yes. Or...the woman, if she wants to have an abortion, SHOULD ask the man if he wants to keep it. He might want to raise the child himself. (Remember half of the baby's genes are his)
Women want to have full choice for an abortion, but when they have a child they want child support. If the man can't have a say in terminating a pregnancy that THEY BOTH CREATED---NOT JUST THE WOMAN--then men shouldn't have to pay for child support after/if they break up.
I am a woman and that might sound unfair, but we, as a country, need to realize that as men and women get more rights, then men should not be held to a double standard like we women complain about.
I believe in pro-choice under circumstances that a woman couldn't really have a say in; such as rape, incest, mother's life in danger, or some other horrible tramatic experience. But the MAJORITY(95%) of abortions are performed on live, viable fetuses that will grow to a baby, then a child, then an adult.
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:) AnonymousJane_01 - Just curious #46135
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This is a reply to # 711,011Where did you get that 95% figure from? Can you point me to the source? Thank you.
- Re: Just curious anonymousjane_01
19 y
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This is a reply to # 711,018Here it is...
"Why women have abortions
1% of all abortions occur because of rape or incest; 6% of abortions occur because of potential health problems regarding either the mother or child, and 93% of all abortions occur for social reasons (i.e. the child is unwanted or inconvenient)."
http://www.abortionno.org/Resources/fastfacts.html
:)AnonymousJane_01
- Re: Just curious muad_dib
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- Re: What a Slanted Website! #42407
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This is a reply to # 711,019I don't believe ANY of their statistics. ESPECIALLY about rape and incest.
How dare they undermine the truth on that! }:(
- Re: Just curious #46135
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This is a reply to # 711,019Advertisement
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”I was surprised by the effectiveness of it, and I wasn’t hungry.”
"All abortion numbers are derived from pro-abortion sources courtesy of The Alan Guttmacher Institute and Planned Parenthood's Family Planning Perspectives."
It doesn't say who these "pro-abortion sources" are at all. I can't find any real citations on the website. After checking out The Allan Guchmacher site, I did find quite an extensive list of sources, however his figures and statistics seem to be taken out of context when you turn to the page you directed me to.
Besides, no matter how many studies are done who really knows why exactly women have abortions? Rapes and abuse are something many (I didn't say all) women keep to themselves. Select groups of women must have been surveyed (i doubt women feel the need to tell their doctors WHY they are aborting) on their reasons to obtain these results, and remember, these results aren't based on EVERY single female out there, only the ones in the studies.
Rapes are something many women keep to themselves, and as for definition "social reasons" I think it is your own narrow view ("i.e. the child is unwanted or inconvenient") of how these things work. That isn't what the term "social reasons" means. Social reasons include cultural and family pressures as well as many other things.
My advice: think critically and evaluate the credibility and validity of ALL the sources
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- Re: Just curious muad_dib
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- Re: Just curious anonymousjane_01
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- Re: Another selfish argument Atalanta
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- Re: Another selfish argument TheCorinthian
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- Re: Another selfish argument Atalanta
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- Re: Another selfish argument TheCorinthian
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- Re: Another selfish argument Atalanta
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- Re: Another selfish argument adamson77
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This is a reply to # 710,992fixthedix i wish it were law. oh wait it is! if you make a baby you must pay for it or go to jail. women have so many stupid birth control choices that are all damaging. i say men should have a choice to fixthedix or pay out of pocket. instead of creating all this birth control for women they should fixthedix until men want or can afford kids. vasectomy is fully reversable or the nuts can still produce sperm to create a baby.
its selfish for men not to want to wear condoms and leave birth control up to women. if you dont want to use condoms she should have a ring on her finger,
the first date should be to the blood bank, its easier than just going to the doctor together plus who does that. people lie and say they been.
there are too many men that have a string of kids . thats not cute
fixthedix
- Re: Another selfish argument muad_dib
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- Re: Another selfish argument #42407
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This is a reply to # 710,991Give up full control of her body? LOLOLOLOL NOT!!!
I think if a woman gets pregnant by a guy and the woman wants to have the child and the guy does not, I don't believe that guy should be forced to pay for child support. Then she can raise the child on her own. She does have an option of getting an abortion. (Of course then he should not be able to force visitation) The scenario I'm explaining is one like in which the two people are not together as a couple, and they want to cut ties with each other.
Now in the case of a married couple that gets divorced and they have kids, child support is understandable. Or a co-habitating couple that split up.
That's just my opinion.Advertisement
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”I was surprised by the effectiveness of it, and I wasn’t hungry.”
- Re: Another selfish argument Atalanta
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- Re: Another selfish argument #64810
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- Another reason this is bad Atalanta
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This is a reply to # 710,989Advertisement
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If a guy didnt want kids then why would he care? He doesnt have to do anything then. The man isnt the one that has to go and "destroy" the life growing inside of him. The man isnt the one that gets dirty looks and insulted as they walk into a clinic. The man isnt the one that has to have that picture in their mind for the rest of their life. If that type of thing was passed then why would any man that doesnt want kids not take advantage of that? And where would that leave the poor woman that didnt want kids either but also cant face having an abortion?
Expand 15 messages, 21 to 35 of 35 TheCorinthian
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- Re: Another selfish argument Atalanta
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