Note: I composed this post in reply to this post: //www.curezone.org/forums/m.asp?f=318&i=5550ost
My husband and I worked on it a LONG time, and we both feel like it's worth reposting as a new thread, so here it is :) Unyquity

Greetings,

You are not alone in trying to figure all this out! We ALL have issues concerning viewing of porn...psychological, societal, personal, religious & logical. And our logic is definitely affected by our religious/spiritual beliefs, the society we live in, our psychological feelings and perceptions, and the person that we are.

This is going to be HUGE post, so let me start by clarifying the following:

First of all, I'm going to use the words 'natural' & 'nature', which reflect how other mammals/animals in the world function sexually and/or intuitively. I realize we are "higher" than animals, as we have an awareness, conscious, and spiritual aspect that is much more complex and coherant than animals (or at least we like to think we are :) But I strongly feel that these issues DO affect our sexuality, no matter how 'high' we deem ourselves.

Secondly, when I indicate the basic differences between men and women, I'm speaking in noted generalities. Sexually speaking, each of us is made up of different percentages of what folks like to classify as "male" or "female" traits; our needs, desires and fantasies are as completely individual as a snowflake. But I do believe that male & female are decidedly different from each other, and that certain traits are naturally 'more typical' in one sex or the other. Women can be healthy and truly enjoy a "lick, stick, thank you Dick" kind of sex, and men can be healthy and truly enjoy soft, nurturing, cuddly, kind of sex.

'Nextly', please keep in mind while you're reading all this that the societal influences and "norms" of our time, are substantially different in the USA than they are in other parts of the world, both currently AND throughout history. In ancient Rome and Asia of old, detailed artwork of people having intercourse, oral & anal sex, and all forms of sexual experiences, frequently & commonly adorned the living rooms and guest areas of the average home...much like a simple wall hanging or poster does now. The idea of "pornography" in a negative sense, has been virtually absent from many societies throughout history.

And lastly, I am not talking about compulsive, obsessive, addictive, "substitute porn for your mate/life' type of porn viewing. If someone is regularly substituting ANYTHING for the very real sex, real pussy, real dick, real communication and real sexual satisfaction of their chosen partner, I feel very strongly that there IS a real problem in that union that needs to be addressed. (And NOone wants to hear something like: "why can't you be like the *whatever* in the movies/books? you NEVER do this, you ALWAYS do that." That's not healthy sexual communication...and if somebody is using porn with that type of thinking, their partner is surely going to be negative about them viewing porn).

So, to the original question: In order for me to come up with my "I don't care WHERE you get your appetite, just make sure you eat at home!" comfort level of my husband viewing pornography on a regular basis, I've had to do a lot of SERIOUS communicating with my current husband of almost 10 years (and I've had several male friends over the years that were open & candid about the topic. Not to mention that my 1st husband turned out to be homosexual after 10 years of marriage, and so I've had a LOT of aspects & experiences to consider). I'm also a student of 'all things psychological', so I've spent countless hours observing all types of sexuality AND internet porn, both educationally and recreationally, with and without my husband.

:::taking a deep breath:::: Here we go...

First, let's look at ourselves gals...the female 'in general', in regards to our fantasies and our needs & sexual desires. By nature, we are the ultimate nestbuilders...mothers, care-givers, nurturers, peace-makers, time-jugglers, considerers, analyzers, and we multi-task at extremely high levels. Our general sexual fantasies? What trips our triggers and makes us feel like having sex? What gets us to "thinking horny"? Steamy romance novels and 'smooshy' romantic/heroic movies. The theme? Love us, appreciate us, woo us, free us from our burdens, whisk us away from our reality, and melt our hearts with that rugged kind of tenderness that's SO manly. The "knight in shining armor", the rough biker holding a tiny
kitten, the successful CEO that transforms a prostitute into a princess...and please Mr. Fantasy man, also have the sexual skill, experience, expertise AND insight of ALL those men --PLUS..be a master of the KamaSutra, a gifted artist, a spiritual tower of insight, an empathetic ear AND an explosive package of masculinity. Oh, and one more thing, Mr. Fantasy Man, we are sick and tired of being chased around for sex until we capitulate and give in so you can "get some", so please have super-human control over that explosive masculinity and harsh desire...reign it in, give us only hints of it, make us want it... and tease us, cajole us, woo us, tempt us, and feed our little candle until it becomes a raging inferno that we can't control. (lol, "Calgon, take me away!)

Whatever picture we create, whatever the theme, whatever the reason or need...this picture is a TOTAL FANTASY, and we know it (or we should!) We can see a couple of movies a year, read a couple of romance novels, or excerpts of fantasy experiences and erotica, or a few 'Penthouse Letters, or any variety of things...and we can multi-task snippets of those stories & feelings & images into our daily lives, to call upon for whatever reason or purpose we choose: to daydream, to escape from reality, to give us that 'touch of horny' that makes us smile inwardly and feel all that good female stuff we don't have time for... just a wee bit 'wet & squishy', just a tad swollen, just brave enough to be sexually aggressive, to complement
that luxurious bath, as a prelude to sex with our mate...whatever.

And you know, that makes some seriously good sense to this gal. Our brand of sexual
fantasy serves 'who we are' quite nicely as females...in a zillion different ways. The first one that comes to mind? One basic physical aspect of sex....
Physiologically, (on the average, in general!) a human male can be completely ready to have intercourse, orgasm, and successfully ejaculate, within less than one minute. But it generally takes a human female 15-30 minutes to achieve the exact same physical state of readiness for intercourse. So, it's a good thing we're such 'fantasy holders' and multi-taskers...it works for us quite nicely in the overall scheme of things.

So, how do we think the man in our lives should feel about all this?

-- Should he be threatened? NO!
-- Should he feel like we don't love him? NO!
-- Should he think that we'd rather have our fantasy man than him? NO!
-- Should he think we're hiding something? NO!
-- Should he suffer a true blow to self-esteem? NO!
-- Should he feel like if we don't share the details of our fantasies with him, that we're leaving him out of our lives and harming our marriage? NO!
-- If his body isn't 'fantasy perfect', should he worry himself and think that we'd rather have sex with the person in our fantasy? NO!
-- Should he nag you until you share things you're uncomfortable sharing? NO!
-- If you should get the courage to share the extremely intimate details of these fantasies with him, should he feel alienated? disrespected? unworthy? rejected? insecure? ugly? unappreciated? hurt in any way? no, no, no, no, no, no, no, NO!

'See where I'm headed here? It's only fair & reasonable that what's good for the goose should be good for the gander...right? :)

Oh my, but men fantasize in a way we don't understand! "Their fantasies are empty, crass, blunt, animalistic, brutal, disrespectful to females, and totally unrealistic! They reduce women to sexual objects that do nothing but meet their base male desires! They don't encompass the depth of spirituality and true love that gives meaning to sex!" Really? and ours aren't unrealistic? sigh, methinks we girls had better get rid of our enormous "fantasy double standard"...and do a bit more of that empathetic listening and understanding that we demand of our male counterparts.


(I am obviously not a man, so I don't have insight into every man's psyche -anymore than I have insight to every woman's- so I may not hit every nail on the head here. In fact, I'll probably do a lot of missing...but hopefully I'll hit fairly close to the mark. I am trying to take what I have learned from all the men that have shared with me over the years (especially my adored and highly respected husband) and combine it into something that we women can understand. I hope & pray that both men AND women will add to this post and provide even more understanding and insight for us all to learn from and share with our mates...hopefully providing deeper communication, fuller understanding of the opposite sex, and more unfettered, fabulous sexual experiences for us all!)

The male animal, in regards to their fantasies, needs, and sexual desires:

Men/males by nature, are fighters, warriors, protectors, inventors, providers, builders, and conquerors. They are basic, direct, fabulously 'un-complex', straight-forward, efficient thinkers. Their 'lines' are well-defined; they are solid. Where they use directness of speech to get their point across, females use innuendos, hints, and subtleties. The male animal sees and smells a female; he gets her attention by strutting his stuff; he gets chosen by being the best strutter with the best stuff...and then the female opens her stuff, he enters, conquers and ejaculates. Sex for males in nature is seriously basic & well-defined.

Male general sexual fantasies? What trips the male trigger? What brings that fabulous
"inward smile" to men and make them feel all 'smooshy good & hot'? Stuff that we don't understand or "get" (without serious contemplation and insight) anymore than they understand ours! Hey folks, we're DIFFERENT!

Female bodies and lots of 'em...smooth curves, airbrushed skin, a lot of hair, no hair, thick lips, thin lips, humongous hooters, tiny titties, wet, dry, oiled, covered in Jello, one alone, two together (or more please!), all kinds of costumes and/or accessories, normal sex, weird sex, completely naked, realistic pictures, unrealistic pictures, whatever...you know, right?...FEMALES, in all their beautiful variations & delicious glory! Oh yes, and please Ms. Fantasy (puhLEEZ) don't make me have to see all these wonderful pictures and these fabulously miraculous female bodies...and have to worry about details, and subtleties, and innuendos, and relationships, and respect, and analyzing why I like this...please just let me enjoy it! And oh yes, one other thing...I'm so desperately tired of having to beg for sex, understand women and jump through all these hoops to simply get my rocks off. If you could make these women ravenously hungry for me, with perfect bodies, that know my needs intuitively, make them seriously 'bendy', make them want (and have expertise in) every sexual act known to man, and let me enjoy them without any kind of a lifetime committment, psychological dissertation of the meaning of sex for "me n' the boys", or some other friggin' "to do" list, that would be out of this world appreciated!

Men don't need (generally again!) to have a detailed fantasy of perfectly workable and psychologically plausible, mutually respectful, intricately orchestrated, perfectly timed fairytale to get that wonderful hint of 'smooshy good & hot'. All they need to do is flip on the monitor, click a few times, and there it is...everything they need for a super fantasy and tiny lil' break from reality.

Whatever picture they create, whatever the theme, whatever the reason or need...this picture is a TOTAL FANTASY, and they know it (or they should!)


So, how does the man in our lives think we should feel about all this?

-- Should we be threatened? NO!
-- Should we feel like he doesn't love us? NO!
-- Should we think that he'd rather have that 'porn woman' than us? NO!
-- Should we think he's hiding something? NO!
-- Should we suffer a true blow to self-esteem? NO!
-- Should we feel like if he doesn't share the details of his fantasies with us, that he's leaving us out of his life and harming our marriage? NO!
-- If our body isn't 'fantasy perfect', should we worry ourself and think that he'd rather have sex with the person in his fantasy? NO!
-- Should we nag him until he shares things that he's uncomfortable sharing? NO!
-- If he should get the courage to share the extremely intimate details of these fantasies with you, should you feel alienated? disrespected? unworthy? rejected? insecure? ugly? unappreciated? hurt in any way? no, no, no, no, no, no, no, NO!


Personally? I'm 46 years old and my husband is 52 years old. We've been married nearly 10 years and our marriage & communication is phenomenal; our committment to each other is grounded and more deep & solid than most people could possibly fathom. We have no children. We are self-employed rockhounds, lapidary & jewelry artists that met at a trade show. We've recently completed 3 1/2 years of college (no degree, long story). We live extremely frugally in a 950 square foot house together in the country, create our rock treasures and sell them on eBay. We are together, in the same house, 24/7/365. We have not had more than 36 hours apart from each other for years. And not to brag or give 'too much information' here, but just so you don't think I'm somebody that just "talks the talk without walking the walk"...although filled with all the normal awkward moments, embarrassment, self-judgemental shame, unexpected parts not working right at very inopportune times, farts-n-such, stupid fears of exposing our innermost sexuality to each
other, and other such annoying human nonsense) our sex life is sssSMOKIN'!

And yet, if I walk into the room when he is on the laptop checking out porn, he automatically/instictively (?) changes pages, and I automatically/instictively cringe somehow....?

He's looking at other women and enjoying it...and somehow I feel it's only natural for me to somehow feel a bit affected by that. Because #1, ALL fantasies have the possibility of becoming unhealthy obsessions (but I feel that possibility is highly unlikely between educated, nonjudgmental, communicating partners), but it's my nature to 'keep an eye on' any potential problem. And #2, because that's MY man, and I love his eyes and his attention and his passion and all his stuff, and I don't WANT him to be looking at other women and thinking about their stuff! And I'll never apologize for that feeling, nor do I need to...we've talked about it, and he completely understands my feelings (in fact, he likes it that I feel that
ay, just a little :) By the way, if I'M the one 'spornfing' (surfing for porn, lol, I just made that up), and I get 'caught', my gut-reaction is to immediately change pages and hope if he saw me he won't think I'm some kind of sick-puppy-female...even though I know he loves my open-mindness, and neither of us think there's anything 'sick' about it.

We're human, no matter how educated, informed and communicative we are with our mates (and ourselves), we still carry lots of "old tapes" in our psyche...hang-ups, programming, assumptions and beliefs that we've accepted & made into our own, without ever examining them as more mature adults. And those tapes can be tricky to find AND erase sometimes...that's only natural.

Another thing to note: psychologically speaking, any feeling or experience that is combined with emotion becomes more real & more intense, and imprints itself on our memories much more strongly. (that's why good teachers use humor; when something makes you laugh, it's really easy to remember). Feelings & experiences with sex are virtually ALWAYS combined with various deep emotions, especially the emotions invoked by vulnerability...so it's very natural & understandable to have a lot of fears, misconceptions and "old tapes" to deal with & decipher.

So there you have it. That's where I'm at with my understanding of men & women & porn. Frustratingly, I'm not going to have the time in the next few days to get back here/post nearly as often as I'd like to. I'm really hoping to learn lots of great stuff...and I hope I've offered lots of great stuff, too!

Unyquity